Thursday, May 19, 2011

Another Heroics Suck Collection.

I log on to do my normal thing first.  My JC dailes on my two character, both tanks.  Of course the CTA for tanks is on, I do not tank randoms so I don't even pay attention to it.

I decide to pop on my Shaman and check if I got a response to the ticket I put in about not getting my CTA baggie and get told that I can not get it because when someone dropped the group requeued for the dungeon they did not continue the dungeon.  There is a difference.

Warning to anyone in it for the baggies.  If someone drops group and you get the pop up saying would you like to continue, press yes.  If anyone presses no and then restarts it, then you will no longer get your baggie.

It makes sense in a way.  When someone restarts it, it gives you the option to select a role, whereas with the continue pop up it you are staying in the same role.  This is to prevent people from entering as a tank or healer and then when someone drops choosing a different role.

While it upsets me that I lost my baggie because of some idiot that joined as a tank wanting to now be a DPS, which is probably how that happened, it makes sense to have that rule.  If they did not have it then people would be more likely to cheese the system for free baggies.

At least now I know, so now I will not make the same mistake.  If someone does that and I am doing it just for the baggie, I will now drop group.

So the day of horrible heroics starts because I see the healers have the CTA.  What the heck, I queue up and get GB.

I zone in, one of the people seems to zone in but is away.  We wait about 5 minutes  We go ahead, tank pulls the non elite junk in the hallway, we kill them, he drops group.  What?

We wait another 5 minutes, get another tank and as soon as we get another tank one of the DPS says brb.  What do you mean BRB, you had 5 minutes while we waited to do whatever it was you had to do.  I hate people that do that.

They get back, we start going and healing becomes a world of hell.  The tank, the DK DPS and the Warrior DPS all seem to think they are tanks.  Each one of them takes their own dragonkin and they are all taking massive damage.  I am left to spam my fast expensive heals just to keep them up.  I do but it burns like 80% of my mana.

I say I need mana and sit to drink to watch the tank go running off into the next pack of mobs.  Me with no mana, nothing CCed, just a pull of those 5 or 6 mobs there.  I stay sitting as long as I can to get as much mana as I could and then wolf to them and start healing.  I start blowing cooldowns just to keep people up and manage to do it.  I am running on fumes when it is done.

I say, mana again and the tank pulls 2 seconds after I say that.  Thank god it is only three dragonkin and not another pack of 5 or 6, I would have never been able to do it if it were.  Of course, being all three plate wearers decided to play tank again it drained the little bit I had once more.

At least now going on the dragons I had a time to get some mana.  It would not have been an issue if everyone else wasn't taking such huge damage, even the mage at ranged was finding new and interesting ways to take tons of damage too.  I can see this is not going to go well.

If it were a fresh 329 healer, no matter how skilled they where, every pull in there so far would have been a wipe.  It is not possible to deal with the amount of incoming damage these people where taking.  I knew, if these people where half way decent at bombing, that at least the hard pulls are now done until the end of the dungeon so I would stick it out.

We basically walk up to the first boss, killing a few things here and there but almost everything is dead.  The pull right before the boss the tank pulls the packs there and the ones on the left, by taunt I assure, to come over all at once.  Here we go again, blowing all cooldown because the tank and the two plate DPS think they can eat the orges whirlwind.  Hey Warrior, you know you can take his weapon away, is the only thing that pops into my mind.  I keep them all up but again I am on fumes.

I say mana and sit down to take a taste of my refreshing south island iced tea and before I can even get a buzz from it the tank is charging in again.  I keep everyone alive but I am not sure how the hell I was able to do it.  No wipe, but so far the way it looks is that this group is lucky to have gotten me.  Most healers would have bailed on the first pull where the tank went in when they had no mana.

After the loot a DPS drops group and we get the pop up.  Someone cancels it and requeues, everyone chooses the same role, why did they cancel and restart, now I will not get my bag.  Screw it, I am out.  I am being bribed to heal for these morons and now I am not going to get paid because one of these morons did not just want to click yes, they had to restart it?  I'm out.

Still the healer CTA so I figure I will queue up again.  I get GB again.  Lets hope it is not the same group I think as I am on the loading screen.  Nope, it is a fresh fun.  Good.

We make our way to the first boss, no one has aggro except the tank, no one is taking damage except the tank, anyone that heals know that when you are with a good group healing is the easiest role in the game.  I am not just talking easy I am talking stupid easy.  Watch TV while playing if you want.  With a good group you don't even need to pay attention.  Even the boss fight was a joke, people actually moved from the charge which is rare to begin with.

I am all excited about this group.  This will be a 20 minute run max with these people, this is how all heroics should be.  I should not need to get a good group for them to be like this, they should be like this on their own even with idiots.  But now the bad news.

The tank must have been looking for a drop because as soon as we downed the first boss he dropped group.  It was not because of anyone in the group, no one said anything, everyone was doing at least 12K DPS and I never let him drop below 80% health.  So it had to be he was looking for something.

We wait and get another tank.  We start going again, this tank is good too, not as good, but it will still be a nice easy run.  One of the DPS disconnects while clearing the trash so after we are done, we wait a few minutes to see if they come back and then kick when they don't.  We get another DPS and go for the boss.

No problem what so ever.  The new DPS is not as good as the old one but not bad at all.  8K is fine and it is all I ask for personally.  As long as people can do that (and follow mechanics) then doing heroics is easy.  One of the other DPS drops however.  What?  Where they looking for something from him?

We get another DPS and continue along, I am paying close attention to the pop up when someone drops to make sure that I do not lose my baggie, after all, that is the only reason I am here.

The new DPS is another that is not as good as the one it replaced but that is no big deal, they are still over 8K so that is all that matters.  Third boss, no one is targeting the elementals and they eat the tank.  Sorry tank, they do 180K damage, I can not heal that when all you have is 154K to begin with unless you are fast enough to use a damage reduction cooldown.  We wipe.

I thought they said they changed it so it would not target the tank.  I am willing to bet actual money I read that in notes at one point about a month ago.  Oh well, crap happens, we give it another go.  No one attacks the elementals again, it goes straight for the tank again, it eats the tank.  We wipe.  I swear I read it would not target the tank, what is this crap.

Either way, do not blame mechanics, target the elementals when they pop up.  How hard is that people.  All that said to myself of course. I was much more polite in game.  I said, you need to get the elementals when they spawn before they reach someone because it will kill them and I linked the spell that shows they do 178K damage when they reach their target.

Tank drops and one of the DPS drops and just those two wipes.  Blame this one on stupid DPS.  At least the top DPS was still there, maybe we will get another good one when we get more people.

As soon as the replacements pop in the new tank says, can we skip this and I say, whatever people want to do is fine with me.  Personally I am one of those people that does not understand skipping because what does it take, 2 minutes?  If you are so tight on time that 2 minutes makes that much of a difference then maybe you should not be playing a game and should get off to do whatever it is that is so important that you can't play the game for 2 minutes more.  Enough of that, either way, shorter is still better, it means I can get more baggies.

The new tank with our new DPS head into those four mobs on the turn as if they are on a rampage.  There is no aggro anywhere, there is no rhyme or reason, there is no interrupting going on, there is no moving the mobs from the pools, this is a disaster in the making.  I manage to keep everyone up and we move to the next pack and it is more of the same.

If this where the first couple of pulls I might have considered leaving, but being the last two, it is no big deal.  The boss is stupid easy and from a healing standpoint as long as every gets into the eye of the storm and they stop the adds from getting the the eggs I could sleep and heal this fight.  Not really a lot of damage going around otherwise.  The boss should be easier then the trash, which seems to be the theme of all Cataclysm content.  Trash is hell, bosses are easy.

We go in, tank gives add assignments, we start the fight, all is going well, the adds come out, both make it to the eggs, one casts a heal, the other I interrupted, I also kept it slowed the whole way with frost shock hoping that would help, it didn't they still could not get it down in time.  There is a good and a bad side to this.  Now at least this becomes a healing challenge but it also means if they do not get the next adds down it will be a wipe.  I am just not skilled enough to heal through 4 packs of whelps being out.  I am not sure if anyone is, I am sure there is someone out there that might be able to.  I am not that someone however.  Next set of adds, both get to the eggs again.  One casts a heal again, I interrupted the other of course.  Four packs of whelps out and in was only maybe 20 seconds later where people started to drop.  Hell, as soon as the first person dropped I stopped healing.  It was a wipe and I knew it.  If we could not down the adds with a full crew we were not going to down them with 1 DPS down.

Next attempt the tank once again says what sides people are supposed to go to and I stress that I can not heal through more then 2 packs of whelps, that after that it gets overwhelming for me and they need to get them down before they get to the eggs.

We go in, same thing happens only this time worse.  I am the only person on one add.  How the hell is a healer supposed to take out an add by themselves?  I give it a try as best I can to keep healing but I knew we had no chance in hell.  We wipe.

Tank leaves and one of the DPS leaves.  We get new people explain we are doing the last boss, head back and go at it again.  New people, same problem, wipe.

I explain once more, all DPS need to switch to adds, if they get to the eggs there is no way I can heal through this.  One of the DPS says, you want me to DPS?  Someone else responds and says yes, you are a DPS I want you to DPS.  He said, I meant the adds.  I said, yes, everyone, I am even throwing frost shocks on them and I am the healer.  Oh, okay, I did not know.

So, all these wipes he was there for, all the time tanks gave assignments for which side people where on, all the times I complained I could not heal if they keep releasing whelps, all of that and this DPS never realized that he was supposed to be attacking these things?  Did he think they where just falling down dead on their own?

I guess my line about all DPS needing to be on it and that even I was DPSing them sunk in.  The next attempt we did awesome.  The first two packs never even made it 1/2 way to the eggs, the third pack got closer.  The forth pack made us miss the achievement because one of them started to channel the spell but died the second he did and we downed the boss no problem, I was even at almost full mana when it ended.  See, told you this was a stupid easy healing fight when people do things right.

I got my baggie and when on my way.  I notice it is CTA for healers still so I queue up for another one.

I get deadmines this time and zone in to yet another person saying brb the moment we get in.  Really people, if you do not have time to do dungeons do not queue for one.  We wait 5 minutes and they come back and we start off.  Another killer tank here.  This guy is taking almost no damage.  Why am I even here?

Deadmines is one of the easiest healing dungeons I think.  It was the first dungeon I ever healed and I was in 329 gear at the time and had no problems what so ever.  As long as people know what to do the healing in this dungeon is minimal.  The only guys in this dungeon that ever annoy me are the axe throwers, their DoT is insane, I wish I had a DoT that hit for 20K per second.

Either way, we get to the first boss and I figure I could throw my healing stream totem in the center and DPS this one.  As long as the crew knows what to do there is no damage in the fight to really speak of.  I throw a rain in the center for the end part, just in case and we down him with no issues.  I even end at full mana.

Tank drops.  What?  Another person looking for gear?  Then a DPS drops.  We wait for 2 more people, takes about 10 minutes, as soon as they get in the new tank says, brb, need to get my new helm.  Why did you not do that before you decided to queue up for a dungeon?  I hate stupid people.  12 minutes later he comes back and runs in.  He is okay, not as good as the other tank but he will be no problem to heal.

We get to the next boss, down him no problem, one of the DPS drops.  The pop up to continue comes up and before I can even click yes someone cancels it and requeues.  Seems the tank wanted to be DPS now.  It also means, no bag for me, I drop group.

There is no more healing CTA now so I figure I would head to my Rogue and try a heroic with him.  Healer CTA is few and far between.  This was only the forth day I had seen once since they added it.  I still refuse to tank one but if I ever want to get the bags I will have no choice.  To bad that there is nothing in the bags that would be enough to convince me to do that.  I only do it on my healer because healing is an easy job, at least when you get mildly competent people.

I pop on my Rogue and figure maybe I would have more luck there.  I enter the queue with 3 guild mates, two other DPS that just hit 85 this weekend and a raid geared healer.

We get into a dungeon and the tank is raid geared as well.  Raid geared tank, raid geared healer, VP, that means 20 minute run max.

We go through the trash and to the first boss and down it.  The tank says, this groups DPS sucks I'm leaving and I say, later.  No loss.  Truth be told, we are all fresh 85s but the DPS did not suck.  The Mage was first with 10K, I was second with 9K and the DK was third with 8K.  All three DPS over 8K is great for a heroic.  I am sure everyone out there would agree.  The tank just happened to be raid geared so he was also doing 9K so compared to him, we sucked.  Maybe he never noticed that we were all the actual gear level you are supposed to be when in a heroic.  336, 334 and 331 where our numbers and to say 10K, 9K and 8K are matched with those number is perfectly fine.

We get another tank and he goes and we are doing fine.  His DPS is 7K, he is still geared but at least we are all above him.  We get to the last boss and the healer has a huge lag spike and dies because she can not run into the triangle, this means a wipe of course but we almost get him even with her dead from nearly the beginning.

Tank leaves.  Excuse me?  One wipe because of a lag spike and she said she was sorry and you drop on the last boss?  Maybe it was another tank that didn't think everyone doing over 8K was good enough for a heroic.

We get another tank and we go in and the tank doesn't move in and the tank dies.  He apologizes, we say no problem, I think to myself that at least he did not blame our DPS for him dying like it seems everyone else does.

We go back and down it.  Over all, for my Rogue it was a good run.  I did 9K on the last boss, 16K on the dragon boss, have to love that buff, and pulled 8K over all average for the whole run.  Still suck at trash.  Anything I can stand still with I am good for at least 11K it seems in my 334ish gear.  Not great but not horrible by any measures.  Makes me wonder what that first tanks problem was.

Do you know how happy I am when I see a run where everyone is over 8K?  It is rare, very rare to see that.  Maybe he wanted all over 15K so the instance would have 15 minutes instead of 20.  That is the definition of an elitist jerk.  I see no problem complaining with 4K, 5K or 6K DPS in heroics.  I agree they have no business being there, but all 8K or more and all knowing all the mechanics and doing them right means a quick and easy run.  He is also the perfect example of why I would never go into a heroic unless I knew I could do 8K.  If I was really doing badly I might have taken it personally, knowing I was not doing badly I knew it was because he was an asshat and not because I was bad.

Over all, it was a horrible day for heroics.

Just think back to how good the normals where when I mentioned them.  Normals really are where it is at.  Seems the better players are all there.

If I could get my valor from them, even at 35 per instead of 70 per, I would do normals and normals only.  Just to avoid asshats like that one.  I'd rather play with the good players then the bad players trying to rush things (low DPS in heroics) or the elitists that think 8K in beginning heroic gear is bad.


  1. I read this post with growing fascination and horror. Had I written this in my sleep and you posted it? How can this be?!

    I am so frustrated with heroics, and don't even get me started on the Troll heroics. (too late) Last night I tried to run the Trolls for 3 hours and completed exactly none. Its infuriating.

    The situation that I hate the most is when a player wins a need roll for a great bit of gear, and bails. :| Really? We were here to help you get that and you cant return the favor? I am here to get the JP, VP, cloth, enchant materials and even the vendor trash, but I cant because you left. I think that if you don't kill the last boss, you shouldn't be able to keep ANY loot from the dungeon. That wont fix the problem in its entirety, but it WILL fix this one small part.

    At this point its actually more profitable to run regular heroics, no matter how you define profit. JP/VP? you get no VP if you don't finish the dungeon and SOME JP for every boss; I almost always complete the standard heroic and almost never complete the troll. Rep? You get the same per kill. Cloth, I get about the same either way (1-3 stacks). Enchantments? I get some in standard heroics, but they are lower quality, I get almost NONE in Troll heroics. Vendor trash/gold? About the same.

    The only real value from the Troll heroics is the chance at better gear, BUT that chance is minimized by the fact that it takes SO long (sometimes never) to get to a boss, let alone the end boss.

  2. Add the fact you need to get lucky enough to get the item to drop and then to win it in one of the troll ones.

    The only thing I even need is the bow and it never drops. Even at 140 valor points (which I have not needed for 4 months anyway) is not reason enough for me to do them. I do them with guild, that's it. I will not pug them even as DPS unless I am really bored.

    I've gotten tired of going in there and pulling 20K dps just so I could carry two other DPS that are doing 4K and 5K.

    As a healer or a tank it is insane. You'll get called a fail healer because people do not know how to move from stuff or a fail tank because the fight lasted 10 minutes because all the DPS was doing less then you and you ran out of cooldowns and the healer ran out of mana.

    It is a no win situation, it seems like most of the worst players from heroics are now in Zul. This means heroics are now better then they were, but they are still not good.

    Moral of the story, if you want a good run, the closer you get to end game the worse it will be. Let all the bad players do the Zuls.

  3. Regarding CTA bags, I think that re-queuing instead of continuing doesn't necessarily mean you WON'T get a bag, it just means that you are no longer eligible for the one from when you originally queued. I think that if you re-queue the game checks the CTA eligibility at that time, so if there is no longer a demand for your role, then you won't get a bag. But you also might get one if there is still a shortage of your role. In any case, maybe next time someone re-queues instead of continues, look in the LFG window and you should be able to see in the background whether or not the bag is up for grabs before dropping. I will also try to look for this to confirm my theory.

  4. @Rades, the GM that responded to me told me specifically that if you requeue even if you are still needed it counts you as entering the queue as a group and not solo.

    However, we all know that the GMs are often wrong but that does make sense.

    We should both look and maybe see if the GM is right.

    It makes sense to me what the GM said however, you are now entering the queue with those people, hence, not alone so not eligible for the bag any more.

  5. Hmm, you know, that does indeed make sense as well. If so, that seems a rather severe flaw. I mean, if someone leaves for whatever reason - maybe something not even anyone's fault, like a D/C - suddenly the tank and healer might leave because someone hit the wrong queue option, not knowing any better? I mean, we can never CHOOSE to group up with people from another server, so why does re-queuing because of unlucky circumstances treat it like such? Kinda weird.

  6. I agree, but it is another case of the honest people paying the price for the dishonest ones.

    As the resident grumpy one you could expect me to complain about that but after thinking about it, it does indeed make sense and I do agree with it.

    It was after seeing the "tank" cancel the queue to change to a DPS it occurred to me. That is why they did it, so fake tanks and healers could not just come in, kick someone, then requeue as a DPS and get the bag.

    If they just hit the yes to continue they would have stayed locked into that role.

    I would prefer to leave the group and enter again, after all I do get instant queue, then to let someone else take advantage of the system like that.

    Mind you, once again, a GM said this, so do not take it as law.

    A GM told me that it was "working as intended" that the united nations guild achievement is only counting my reps and not anyone else and we know that is indeed not "working as intended."

    I will still test it. The next time that happens I will check to make sure a healer is still needed, if it is, I will stay and see if I get the bag.

    That is the only way we will find out for sure.

  7. I'm not sure the CTA bags work the way you described. Only today I tanked a random ZG, rotated through about a dozen players before the second boss, and even though people repeatedly cancelled the role check, I still got my satchel at the end.

  8. This is a phenomenom I call "Lead Singer Syndrome". It mostly applies to tanks, but in rare cases it can also infect healers. If this happens it mutates into the very rare "Stroppy healer Syndrome". Symptoms include acting as if the rest of the group exist solely for the purpose of getting you your VP as fast as possible, being an obnoxious, arrogant elitist cockmonkey and generally behaving like a 20 year old Mick Jagger.