Saturday, March 24, 2012

Time Frame of Casual Raiding

While doing my standard thing of reading around about things I came across a post that had me laughing and scratching my head.  It basically had me say to myself, self, is this guy on crack?  Then I realized that while I did believe this guy must be on some heavy drugs it is indeed only my opinion of his statements that made me believe that.

I'll paraphrase what was said as after a quick look to find the exact quote I could not find it again.

"Even heroic content is so easy this expansion.  I am in a casual guild and we are 6/8 heroic and we only raid 4 nights a week for about 16 hours."

Now this is not about the dreaded word easy that can start fights left and right on the forums it is about another word that seems to always have a thousands different meaning depending on who you ask and that is casual.

What had me scratching my head was the fact that this person calls themselves casual and in the same sentence says they raid 16 hours a week 4 days a week.  Again, only my opinion here but that is not casual, that is not even close to casual, that is not even in the same realm of casual, heck, it is not even on the same planet of casual.  That is a hard core raiding guild without a shadow of a doubt.

I thought to myself that he is probably rationalizing to make himself feel better that he is not 8/8 heroic because lets face it, the really good hard core guild would be 8/8 heroic by now.  If he calls himself casual he then frees himself of the stigma of not having downed the whole thing already.

It is almost as if anyone that is in a serious raiding guild that has not completed the content thinks they are casual.  I do not agree with that sentiment.  They are a hard core guild that is just not as good as other hard core guilds.  Just like there are casual guilds that are not as good as other casual guilds.  The biggest difference is, if you call yourself hard core you feel bad if you are not where the other hard core players are but if you call yourself casual you can be anywhere and be comfortable with it.

For me I look at the difference between the two as a time investment thing.  I call my guild a casual guild.  Not even a casual raiding guild.  It is a casual guild that raids.

We raid, or try to, 2 nights a week for 2 hours a night.  Most of the time we are missing people for the second night so go with lesser geared and/or experienced fill ins that are capable but not around every week but they are good players. They are the ones that helped up finish the content on normal, they are just not there every week in and out. 

In reality if you wanted to average it out, we probably raid, on average, 3 hours a week. We are 8/8 and have never even tried heroic modes even if we could easily knock out at least two (the first and fifth) but we do not press it because we are a casual guild.  We might attempt it some day but we are content in downing the raid each week and trying to get people some more gear and get more people in there at the end so they can get the achievement.  When we get to the point were someone needs no, or little gear, we rotate people in and out or bring in alts.  Now that... is a casual guild.

With all honesty I could see my guild being at least 6/8 heroic if we pushed it and tried to make progression on heroic.  Perhaps the person that made that statement above knows that a casual guild like my guild could conceivably be 6/8 heroic if we pressed it or even added 1 hour a night or a third night so to make himself feel better he calls himself casual.

In no way, shape or form will you ever hear me say any guild that runs 4 days for 16 hours a week is a casual guild.  There is nothing casual about that time wise.

Everyone would have their own opinions on where the line is with casual and hard core.  Maybe to some people his statement sounds true.  Maybe they do consider that casual.  I don't.

What numbers would you hang on a casual guild, at the most.  Here are mine.

A casual guild.... never raids progression more then 3 days a week, usually 2.
A casual guild.... never raids progression more then 3 hours a night, usually less.

At what point does it become hard core in your opinion.  Ability notwithstanding because there are casual guilds that can do heroic content and there are hard core guilds that have still not finished normal.  Based on time only where is the line between casual and hardcore.  Remember, casual and hardcore are time spent words for this and not ability words.

So based on time spent raiding, what is the time frame for casual raiding in your opinion?


  1. If you raid on a schedule, you aren't casual. Once you say that you will structure the rest of your life around a game, you're pretty hardcore. It's what keeps me from trying to join a raiding guild.

  2. I honestly think your assessment of the time-frame is accurate ... and your piece is appreciated. I'm a fairly skilled player -- same damn hunter since the first days of vanilla -- but I'm not, and never will be, 'hardcore'; I simply don't have the time. Its nice to see that recognized as a time, rather than skill, difference. As to the above post, a couple hours, a couple times a week? Sounds about as hardcore as a weekly bar hangout.
    One other point I'd make is that it is often rules and intensity of their application that makes a group 'hardcore'. Getting kicked out for missing raids, loot systems; these are usually the hallmark of more hardcore than casual guilds, in my experience.

  3. I raided with a casual guild that offered raiding 4 nights a week, 3 hours a pop. I never batted an eye at calling them casual, however, because they had zero entry policies (other than "do we like you?"), no restrictions between raiders and non-raiders, and zero attendance requirements.

    To me casual/hard-core is a line between the restrictions/requirements you put on your raiders including (and especially!) time. While my casual group raided 4 times a week, every night there were drastic changes in the roster as no one was *required* to attend.