This expansion was missing something, a very important part of the game, for the entire expansion thus far, and that is a reason to log in on reset day. Of course at the start of the expansion when everything was fresh and new you would want to log in on reset, but it was not because it was reset, it was because it was all still new and shiny.
My guild does not raid on Tuesdays so even raiding was not a reason to log in on Tuesdays. We ditched raiding on Tuesdays back in wrath because of the constant delays with the game being up in time for raid and being a casual guild it was never really imperative to raid on Tuesdays to begin with.
So what inspires some people, like me, to log in on reset day? Something we feel is worth doing of course. Something that resets on reset day, which is after all why it is called reset day. Something that I felt was worth doing even on alts. As I mentioned about raiding, which is the big thing that resets on reset day, that had not be a motivator for me since, what is it, 2008.
Why I logged on for reset was always about valor. It was valor reset day. I could start capping characters again and I was usually good for capping at least one if not more in recent years, every single week. I enjoyed logging in to do that, it felt as if there was something worth doing. While the fact does remain valor gear is not back yet, as it should be, we can upgrade our gear with valor now. And unless you are like me, someone who is still wearing a few blackrock foundry pieces (don't judge, I have horrible luck), you will most likely be able to upgrade every single piece of gear you are wearing.
At 250 valor per 5 point upgrade, meaning 500 per piece for the full 10 points you are allowed to upgrade, that means you will need, at most, 8000 valor to upgrade all your gear. In the old days that meant at least 8 weeks of valor capping. That meant there was a chance you would get an upgrade in 8 weeks. It means even me with my bad luck has a chance to get an upgrade after 8 weeks. So that in turn could mean even longer to get enough valor to upgrade all your pieces as there would be a new piece in the mix I would now need to upgrade once more.
For me, having some sort of currency like valor was a key to making the game repeatable, doing those same things over and over again, the things we stopped doing early on this expansion. There have been no real reason to run dungeons, no real reason to run LFR, no real reason to do anything but log in on raid nights. So having something in the game, something that is useful to help my characters personal progression, is a great motivator to logging in on reset day for me. It has been a key component to what made a game like this great, it allowed what was otherwise one and done content, as in content that is consumed quickly with no need to return to it, worth doing again, that is the glory of valor. I am glad it is coming back, it gives me a reason to log in on reset day again. Even if I can easily get everything done over the course of a week, I still like getting it out of the way on reset day.
But that brings me to a question as there is no longer a cap on valor you can gain per week. As far as it seems there is around 4700+ valor you can get each week now and you can get all of it. No cap of 1000 per week. However, there is an over all cap. If you already have everything upgraded you can only bank 5000 valor for later use. But unless you get 10 new pieces of gear in one run (I wish I had a run like that) you won't be able to blow through those reserves faster than it would take to replenish what you spent.
So instead of it taking 8 weeks to upgrade all your gear it is theoretically possible to upgrade all your gear in 2 weeks, even if you have every single slot with an eligible piece. And you would have lots of valor left over to boot.
So lets say you want to max out the level on your existing gear, and cap out at 5000, you can do so in 3 weeks. Is this really a replacement for the valor that made me love logging in every week on reset day or is this some fake substitute that will be like the rest of the expansion has been, something you do quick and are done with. I am thinking it will be more along the line of the latter.
Even more so when you think about the rate people get new gear, or at least people like me, I might need to get some valor once in a blue moon, but it will not be like old valor. It will be warlords valor, where everything is one and done. Heck, you will not even need to keep a reserve if you do not want to. As I said, it is not like someone is going to get 10 upgrades in one week, which is what would need to happen for you to not be able to upgrade everything in one weeks worth of valor. So you do not even need to be sitting on a reserve.
Warlords has screwed up everything, I think they even screwed up valor. What is even worse is valor, at least for me, is completely useless on alts. We need valor gear, not valor upgrade.
Come now, do I really want to upgrade a 670 trinket on my mage? Nah, I would rather there be a 700 one I could buy with valor points. Upgrading a 670 to 680 would not motivate me to play my mage, but letting me buy a 700 sure as hell would. Blizzard seems to have forgotten how to make things worth doing long term anymore. They only know how to design for one and done content.
Hey, at least for a couple of weeks I have a reason to log in on Tuesday for reset day and I am happy for that. Just wish they had done a better job with bring valor back.
GQDN11/21/2024
7 hours ago
Well, this post just proves that to each is own once again.
ReplyDeleteValor have never been a reason to log in for me, ever.
As far as I was concerned it was just a pointless currency after a month that you passively get by just doing what I was going to do anyway.
The implementation this time will acually bring me back to dungeons.
The heirloom trinket from mythic dungeons will aswell intensive me to do dungeons again (wonder if you can get different ones from the same spec).
But I guess it's something that will never be able to be right for everyone.
No RNG = bad cause you can plan everything and no real intensive to continue playing past a certain point.
Too much RNG = bad cause some ppl are going to be unlucky.
I still think though that the real problem is the mindset of ppl, right now if somone get an upgrade but it's not warforged or with a socket they consider it as garbage.
WTF??? you just got an upgrade, what are you complaining about?
Confused. The mindset you describe is the real problem with what?
DeleteWell mindset of "if it's not WF and/or socketed it's garbage".
DeleteI mean those stuff are bonuses, you should be happy when they're there, not unhappy when they're not.
While I do think that some pieces should always have a socket (which is coming in Legion btw), I also think the current system of random bonuses is also good.
@Anon
DeleteYes you can get all the trinkets on one character, the first one that drops however will be for whatever your loot specialization is set for.
I liked valor, more so for alts, it gave me a reason to run dungeons with them and slowly build up points to buy a piece here and there. It let me feel some sort of personal progression on those characters. The game needs repeatable content like that for alts.
No RNG does not mean bad. You "think" it is bad, you are entitled to that opinion.
Think of it this way, lets put it in a real life perspective. It is not bad to know how much you need to pay for rent each week is it? It is not bad to know when you need to show up for work is it?
It is not bad to know when things are happening, never has been, never will be. I would rather know I am getting a piece every three weeks then hope and pray the RNG gods shine on me.
That would be like me waiting until rent day and asking my landlord, how much is it this week, a cheap 2K or an expensive 5K. No thank you. I will gladly take knowing over not knowing any day.
But to each their own, but random is just not fun for me.
I do agree with James, what is the problem with that mind set?
It is no different than me winning a belt with haste and mastery and saying, cool it is an upgrade but I would rather the one with critical and multi on it. So I keep going until I get the one I want.
Same thing here, I keep going until I get the warforged and gem slot one. Anything less is nice, but it still is not the piece I want.
And no, they are not bonuses, I've now heard you and others say this, please stop with that stuff. I hear people say that all the time.
They increase performance, they are not bonuses. If it had an on use to turn you into a skeleton, it is a bonus. If it is performance enhancing, it is an upgrade, not a bonus. Please stop with the "its just a bonus" nonsense.
So yes, if someone gets something without a warforged and gem slot on it they have all rights to be upset. It is like winning the same haste and mastery belt each week and not the critical and multi one that would be an upgrade. You won something, but it is useless, you wanted the better item. In this case, the better item has a gem slot and is warforged. It is not a "bonus". It is an upgrade.
Yep, useless for alts, unless used as second raid main. I have never actually upgraded alt gear because it is usually sub optimal and it seems like a waste.
ReplyDeleteI have two "mains" so to speak. I tank often so do not consider my druid an alt even if I treat it as such. So I know what you mean. Someone like my rogue would have very little he could even upgrade, so valor is not really a motivator for him.
DeleteI agree with your comments. We raid on Tuesdays, so there is that for me. I would also log myself to hit up old raids for mounts. Like many, I've got that down to a science now through practice and can finish them all on four toons in under two hours. Hope springs eternal, but I'd rather have more for my main to do that actually increases his power.
ReplyDeleteI will do more time walking for the mount at this point. Once I have it, little reason to return beyond the single-dungeon quest each month. And even then, once I have the purchasable mounts and toys, I won't need to time walk again. So the pattern holds.
I have not been soloing as often as I used to. Just not really all that motivated to log in even for mount runs.
DeleteI do like the timewalkers, to build up to get the toys and mounts and the chance at the mount drop of course, but I never do more than the 5 needed.
There's a double grind they are expecting you to be doing here.
ReplyDeleteSo you can upgrade your baleful stuff with Valor. However, you need to grind Apexis for the tokens and the 695 upgrades. The assumption is that everyone should wind up in 705 gear (if you run Kazak, you'll wind up with some 715 gear...and if you've got the ring, there's a 745 in the mix).
The real rub is, you buy a token (or lucky enough to get a token drop/mission) and you could wind up with an okay item that needs to be upgraded, or you can wind up with all the wrong secondaries. Meaning you need to waste time/apexis/oil on another token for the same RNG issue. Then need to waste time grinding more apexis for the upgrade because you wasted all your apexis trying to get a piece of useful gear.
I got sick of that grind, as long as the baleful gear had at least one of my top 2 secondary stats, it gets upgraded and forgotten. When I was lucky enough to see my second best stat and versatility, I was actually happy. That gives you and idea of how bad the gear situation is.
That randomness is what gets me. I do not mind the baleful process so much except for that. It really starts to add up if you keep getting the wrong piece with bad stats. I wish there were a way to reroll stats instead of having to buy another piece. Say 1000 apexis for a reroll instead of 5K for a new piece. Would make it more doable for alts, at least for me. But as it is, I just do not care enough to do that grind on alts. It is not worth it. Even with better gear there is nothing much to do except for raiding. And if you are raiding, you would have better gear than the baleful gear to begin with.
DeleteI enjoyed the instant DPS queues last night and did a daily heroic and all the HFC LFR wings. That was only enough to upgrade my weapon and half a trinket. I really doubt those queue times will last though...
ReplyDeleteThey seem to be a lot longer already. As I figured, one week after most people are finished upgrading and things are getting a little closer to normal. In a months time it will be almost as if this patch never happened sadly.
DeleteAfter I finished my eight mythic dungeons on both of my raiding hunters, and started considering queuing for LFR, I started really longing for the days of a valor cap.
ReplyDeleteFrom everything I heard yesterday LFR was incredibly smooth. All of them had heroic and mythic geared raiders in them. Several guildies reported seeing bosses downed in 30 seconds or less. Mythic dungeons were the same way. Of the sixteen I did, 13 where with premades with people I knew where I was average dps (I haven't kept up any sort of BM PvE, so I just played MM and relied on trinket and barrage for all of my AoE), and everything of course just melted away. No bosses lasted as long as the Mirror Trinket on-use. Then the three I did with random people from the group-finder, even with people who were struggling to pull 20-30k on boss fights, everything still died obscenely quickly.
The point is, it's not in the slightest bit hard to grind the valor. There is almost 0 skill involved. It's just such a long grind.
I've been trying to imagine what the devs were thinking. I have the impression that they've made a lot of decisions like this (though I can't think of specific examples off the top of my head). But they seem to think since the serious raiding community is so small, that everyone else will think of valor capping as optional, so it won't burn people out. Maybe they even think they're doing raiders a favor by letting them finish in 2 weeks, as a lot of guilds are kind of counting on this to get them over the archimonde hump.
I am not an alt person. I have several. I only raid with two. So right now, at least, i can't imagine capping another character. Even my resto druid (who I'm sure would get instant queues in any of the bullshit they decided to make valor come from), it just doesn't seem worth it. I can heal plenty to keep a normal or heroic group alive, I don't have any plans of taking her into mythics.
Also, (hope you don't mind me just coming over to your blog and ranting for a while...) On my horde hunter, upgrading things has been fun. It felt good: mythic gear, even if it isn't BiS WF/S, feels worth the cost (roughly two mythic dungeons per piece). On my ally hunter, I haven't even gotten a heroic Manno weapon yet, so I'm still using a crafted piece. Even though I recognize that upgrading the crafted weapon is the single most important thing I could do, it just felt bad. It felt like a waste: a nagging reminder that I can't get any good drops.
I hadn't really thought about 6.2.3 too much. But I did have this idea in my head that once 6.2.3 came out I'd have something to do, a reason to log in. But come 11 last night, I was browsing the steam store, trying to decide what I wanted to play, as I just couldn't bring myself to queue for lfr...
Come and rant all you wish, this is a great place for that. Ranting sometimes makes you feel better. I know it makes me feel better.
DeleteI get where you are going saying they made it fast for the raiders, but I think they missed the point where the raiders, while they will do it because they "have to", everyone else will do it because it is the only way they can get better gear. So in a way, they "have to" as well. Why does blizzard keep missing that concept?
I have not even gotten a weapon yet. lol Never the less heroic one. So at least you have that going for you. ;)
Drops have been dreadful for me all expansion. Second week of hghmaul I got the normal brakenspore weapon, and that was it. I have not see another weapon all expansion long. And lets not even talk about trinkets, or some other pieces. I am still wearing 2 BRF pieces because they are the best I have. I hate hate hate the RNG of this expansion.
I do the same thing now. I have bought a bunch of new games off steam. lol
I think it's time to give the WoW team some credit for this one. You're right, like any content it will only last as long as it takes us to get tired of it, but now that it's out I'm pleasantly surprised. Allow me to rant a bit like Delirium:
ReplyDelete-As you suggested, Tuesday was special again.
-I feel like I am always gaining power as I get valor.
-Running those dungeons I haven't seen in ages (or ever).
-A GOD DAMN SHORT DPS QUE. It won't last, but this week my waits were shorter than they have ever been this expansion. You gotta love that.
-My casual raid team is a bit recharged.
-Timewalking seems worth it.
The patch isn't perfect, and many of us will consume it quickly, but they did some good stuff this week in my opinion.
I think they did a fair job, do not get me wrong. But I also think, once again, they were looking short term and not long term. They need to get back into thinking of designing for an MMO, as in something that keeps you logging in. Not one and done.
Delete"Come now, do I really want to upgrade a 670 trinket on my mage? Nah, I would rather there be a 700 one I could buy with valor points. Upgrading a 670 to 680 would not motivate me to play my mage, but letting me buy a 700 sure as hell would."
ReplyDeleteWhat? What? What?!!!! That means any scrub could just BUY a decent trinket for VP... Oh wait... Isn't that how it used to work?
If this were Cata, your mage could buy the intel trinket, a raid quality weapon, or tier for VP. Or, if it were Mists your mage could coin the Immerseus trinket, the staff, or tier pieces in LFR.
But this is WoD. That this system hurts raiders too, not just alts and scrubs, is something that the people complaining about hoi poloi-getting-unearned gear seem to have forgotten. As for logging in, my RNG is so bad I'll be here forever, more or less :).
Actually it "sort of" worked that way. On very rare occasions you might find an awesome valor piece but usually they were just really good pieces until you got the raid drop that was better. Which I am fine with. That is how it should be. Valor buys you the piece, the raid drops the same piece with a gem slot. Something like that is how it usually worked.
DeleteThis system hurts everyone.
My team has been sort on tanks, so I have two geared characters ready to go. But that is because I made the effort to. Because of no valor gear not even one person in guild has an alt ready to step into tanking when normally there would be at least 5 or 6 alts sitting a 710 ready to roll.
That is why I miss valor gear more than anything else. It might have not been the best gear, but it was awesome for fill in gear.