Ever Run Into "That" Person?

The last few weeks we have had some new people joining us for normal runs or mythic trash farm.  Even bought along some of the people for the early bosses on heroic.  I do not see any rising stars in the bunch, at least not on the limited impressions I have had of them, but despite what blizzard is trying to push the game toward, raiding isn't everything.

We can always use all types of people in the guild and do not strictly look for raiders, although good ones are always welcome of course.  A good community within a guild has many working layers.  There are the progression raiders, the serious PvPers, the part timers, the normal mode players, the battle ground warriors, the alt o holics, the grinders, the gatherers, the socials, you name it.  When you are in a casual guild you do not need to be laser focused on one thing.  It has to be a melting pot.

This is why we do the normal runs and trash runs, it gives us a chance to mingle, to get to know your fellow guild mates.  Connections are made, friendships are formed, people talk about their level 94 alts that they will now level together tomorrow.  A damage dealer will talk about how he hates the long waits in queue so a healer or a tank offer to "hit me up" so they can get an instant, or near instant dungeon.

Just because there are many people with many different focuses in the game doesn't mean that people do not have common interests.  The raider who is stocking up 4 barns on a daily basis, the gold goblin that has barns running to make gold, the non raider who just wants to make their own gear and needs bloods from their barn and the new 100 that can't really trap things on their own or the achievement hunter that is just trapping to get the achievement.  They all play differently, but they all have something in common and these little get together runs bring them on the same page so the next day they go elite trapping together.

Things like this are what build a guilds community.  Impromptu world PvP running around as a group starting trouble.  Naked dungeon runs.  Naked arena runs.  Achievement runs for old raids.  You name it, each and every little event you do brings people together and make a guild so much more than just a bunch of people hanging out under the same banner.  It is what makes a guild a community and maybe even feel like extended in game family.

But every so often someone joins the mix, like someone we have had recently in the raid runs, that just seems to click wrong.  Wrong with everyone.  The social non raiders do not like them, the active raiders do not like them, neither the progression raiders nor the normal mode raiders nor even the LFR only raiders.  The alt a holics do not like them, the achievement hunters do not like them, even the pure socials who just like to hang out and chat more than anything else do not like them.

They are "that" person.

I can not place my finger on it but I dislike them too.  It is not just the copious complains, remarks or observations I keep hearing from others.  I am the type that will usually play with anyone, even if I am not all that fond of them because I am always aware of the big picture.  But I dread them signing up for an event.  I am so glad they are not geared enough or experienced enough to bring on our proper raids.  I do not want to be around them.  I would rather log off than be part of an event they join in and the sad part here is that it is not just me.  Everyone dislikes them.  I gave them more time to pass judgement than everyone else did figuring maybe it was just a rough getting to know you phase but even I find being around them unpleasant.

There seems to be only one person in the entire guild that likes them and it is going to cause trouble because it is the guild leader.   I've already been told in no uncertain words that if they come on a normal raid that a few of my main raiders will no longer be coming along to help. They are always willing to help by bring their mains to help gear up new players, alts of some people that need gear, or just whomever we can squeeze in but as much as they do have a desire to help the guild as a whole their dislike of "that" person greatly outweighs it and they can not bring themselves to raid with them.

I am sure I don't need to tell you what the impact of losing a few people capable of doing 50K-60K will do to a normal run where we are bringing new players, under geared players or rotating who gets to bring an alt.  Having a few solid damage dealers makes every single fight easier and not having them means we can not bring as many lesser people on normal runs.  If that is the case, than there really is not reason to run normal runs, at least as I see it.  I don't want to do progression on normal mode all over again.

One person will not even get on voice chat if they are on it.  Even if they are in a different channel.  They will log in, see them there, and leave instantly.  After one odd event one evening he even removed two of his characters from guild because he wanted to play them and didn't even want to see "that" person talk in chat.  That is how much he really dislikes "that" person.  He quit the guild just to not see their name in guild chat.

I don't understand why everyone dislike this person.  I don't even know why I do.  "That" person just rubbed me wrong the first time we spoke and my dislike grew over time.  It is not like they did anything wrong.  "That" person is willing to help anyone that needs it.  Will give anyone an instant queue to a dungeon or LFR, all they need to do is ask.  If they want to buy something and are short on gold "that" person will lend it to them, heck, even give it to them if it is not much.  "That" person shares materials, potions, flasks, "that" person is the ideal player in that sense.  A true team player.  But it seems the team dislikes "that" person and I have no clue why.

I think maybe they come off as trying to hard, maybe that might be it and it just rubs people the wrong way, I know that is partly where I can tag some of my dislike of them.  Coming off as trying to hard really can be a turn off.  Maybe they come off as being a know it all, which is the complaint someone mentioned to me.  Whatever it is, they are most definitely "that" person.

My issue is I need to figure out what to do with "that" person and how to handle them or they can destroy a good thing.  I don't really want to be rude and say you are no longer welcome to come to things with us but it almost feels as that is my only true option.  I do whatever I can to not be a dick, but it seems like this time I might have to.  They can end up destroying the chemistry guild if they keep coming along even if that is not their intention because "that" person just makes everyone not want to be around them and in this case, being the only person that likes them is the guild leader, this little issue can become a big problem, and fast.

About the only thing I have going for me is that if I tell the guild leader, being they are "that" persons friend, to handle it they will.  I just do not want to draw that card unless I have to.  I've given "that" person some time.  I've given "that" person some advice on how to fit in better.  I've tried my damn hardest to help "that" person fit in, even if I didn't like them either, because that is part of what I do.  I handle the sometimes delicate balance of personalities so we can all work together.  But it did not work.  Something needs to be done and I just do not know what.

Have you ever run into "that" person?  If so, how did you deal with them?

How Much Would You Sacrifice for Guild?

Every single player that has ever raided or PvPed or did anything that is based on a schedule in game has sacrificed for their guild.  Sure it might not seem like it when you are home on a tuesday night anyway so what is the big deal to log in to raid, you were going to be there anyway.  But do not let it fool you, at some point, even if you only raid when you really had nothing to do otherwise, you are still sacrificing something for the betterment of your guild.  Your time.

Have you ever been tired and did not feel like playing but because it was raid night you played anyway?  Ever not been feeling well but still stepped it up for your arena team?  Ever wanted to watch something on TV but figured you would just watch it later so you could make a guild event?

Think back, I am sure if you are a good team player there are times you have sacrificed for your guild.  Where would you draw the line however?

Even something as seemingly simple as a guild treasurer sacrifices a lot for their guild.  Even if they are the type of person that likes to play the auction house and they enjoy doing so, when they are doing it for the guild cycling things out of the guild bank they are not doing it for themselves.  Every minute they spend making money for the guild is a minute they are not making money for themselves.  Do you ever give your guild treasurer the thanks he/she deserves for keeping the bank clean and keeping the gold flowing in?  Well, you should, because they are sacrificing their time and using their skills for you and everyone else in your guild.

I've often said here, more so it seems at the beginning of each expansion, I sacrifice for my guild.  I tank or I heal when I would rather be there on my hunter with fluffy at my side but if I am needed to tank, I tank.  I make sure to have a tank geared as best as I can for an alt just so if I am needed I can help the guild.  Do I enjoy playing it, sure, but that does not mean I am not sacrificing for the betterment of the guild when I would rather be there on my hunter.

I am not a huge PvP fan, I think I have said that before, but I have ran with players in guild because they needed a partner.  I spun it in my own mind as I can use this as a chance to get better at it and while that might hold true it is more a case of doing it to keep a guild member happy, and more importantly, in the guild and happy.  This is a case a little further down the line of how much one might sacrifice of themselves by doing something that they are not really completely into doing.

My guild has always been a helpful guild and we think nothing of it.  Someone new comes in and needs help and there is always someone that is willing to step up and help them with their class and spec.  To help them with the gems and enchants if they can not afford them on their own, often at their own cost using their own materials.  I've even seen guild members go to the auction house and buy stuff for people just so they would be ready and not ask for a single thing in return.  Most might just think of it as people being helpful but it is sacrificing a little for the guild even if it does not seem that way.

Recently being things have been a little blah with recruiting myself and a few others have been pugging some heroics so we can get more experience figuring that with some additional heroic experience it will make recruiting easier.  It would definitely be easier to recruit when the core team is further along, and while we are still missing tanks, it is not going to happen in guild at the moment.  Not to mention pugging make us stronger so we can carry newer people through the content on normal to gear them up so they can catch up that much easier. 

This is not sacrifice you might say because you are getting something out of it in terms of further progression, but have you ever pugged heroics?  Hit and miss usually, but even when you grab a hit where you walk in and one shot bosses you still need to deal with the gay remarks, racist remarks, and over all poor behavior that peoples mothers should have taught them better than to talk about in mixed company.  It might not be something you feel is insulting to you or that you are sacrificing of yourself subjecting yourself to that, but to sit there and have to read this or listen to this is a great self sacrifice to me but I do it for the betterment of the guild.

When SoO first came out and in the weeks and months that followed I reached my limit for self sacrifice.  We started running two flex runs a week, the 25 man, the main 10 man two nights a week and another 10 man weekend run that sometimes went two nights as well.  When the third 10 man popped up that meant I was raiding 7 nights a week on most weeks when really all I wanted to do was two nights for the main 10 man and maybe a flex night for alts.  But the guild needed me, if I was not on to lead the group, or not on to fill in because we needed a tank or a healer or another damage dealer, the run did not happen and then guild morale would fall.  So I had not choice, I could not take a night off, like it or not, I had to be on and I had to be willing to run the group if the person I had put in charge of it were not there.

It started to make me burnt out.  Even if we only raided 2 hours a night that was a lot more raiding for me, I had never run with a schedule like that before.  It was not the 2 hours a night that got me, but the 7 days a week that did.  Sure I might pop on and play at least a little every day, but there is a difference between that and having enough raid ready characters for that many groups and to lead them and their variously skilled players and getting all my characters ready for it because I never knew which one I would need.

Sometimes you just have to say enough is enough.  I was, still am, completely burnt out.  In some strange sort of way on the inside I was glad when things started to fall apart and we decided to scrap the 25.  I was glad when the majority of players that were raiding said they did not really feel like doing the flex runs any longer.  I was somewhat glad when the second and occasional third 10 man fell apart.  I could go back to raiding one or two nights a week.  A nice and easy casual schedule.

That was what I call my height of sacrificing self for the guild.  I gave all my time, even if I did not want to, to help the guild expand but in the end it took too much of my own time from me.  I could no longer play the game.  Every free second in the game was about raiding, getting ready for it, helping people get ready for it, working with new recruits, balancing teams and who would run what night.

I play a lot, but I do not play that much.  I could not do it and I reached the point where as much as I wanted to do it, it was sacrificing too much.  Too much of my time, too much of myself.

I know it is a hard question to answer because many people do not even notice all the things they do for their guild.  I never think anything of helping someone with knowledge, or gems or enchants, at my own expense, but that is all sacrifice.  For me however, the ultimate sacrifice, the one that became too much for me, was the sacrifice of my time to where I never had any time to play for myself any longer.  I learn something new each expansion and this expansion taught me my limits on how much of myself I could give.

How much would you sacrifice for your guild?

How Do You Find a Guild?

This is not a how to post, this is an actual question.  I've been in my main guild for so long and all my alts are either in friends guilds or their own guilds or just social leveling guilds.  It has been so long since I have looked for a guild I really do not know how someone would find one.

I can give advice on how to work your way into a raid spot.  As a raid leader I know what some people look for.  As a raider I know what I look for.  But over all it is more than just responding to a forum post, or filling out an application, or whispering someone that posts in trade.  Anyone can find a guild if they are looking for raiding.  Anyone can get a spot if they work it right.  But what about just finding a guild with like minded people you can have fun with?

I am not a social person, never have been and do not think I ever will be. I don't avoid people but I do not seek out any contract that is not what I would consider necessary to playing the game.  Being I know I am not alone in feeling that way it made me wonder if I started the game today, how would I go about finding a guild I fit with.

When I started it was a lot easier to find a guild that fits you than it is in today's game.  There was no looking for raid and there was no looking for dungeon.  If you wanted to run a group that meant a visit to our friendly trade chat and sometimes a distinct possibility of hours of waiting until you found one

Those long hours in trade chat were not fun, don't ever let anyone that says "things were better before the LFD" tell you that hand assembling groups when you were a new player with no reputation yet was a good thing, but they were better for one thing for sure.  Community was tighter back then, the LF* system has all but killed off community on some servers.

For every minute I waited for a group while reading trade, posting in trade, or flying to stones to summon people when we did get them that sucked it was actually worth it.  I made friendships, got to know people on my server and their respective talent levels from running with a lot of them, and of course, I found myself a guild that way.

After doing those dungeons daily, well, trying to get one each day at least, you would end up running with the same people often.  Sometimes they would bring guild mates and you would meet others from their guild.  So you got to see how they played, who they were, and maybe even talk to them on vent, which usually happened when you dungeoned with someone often.   So in the end finding a guild was not actually work, it just happened, thanks to having to hand assemble groups.

As I mentioned, I am not a social person, I most likely would have never had these interactions with these people if it were not for the fact I had to do so if I wanted to run any dungeons.

In the world of the game today, again, if I just started, how would someone anti social like myself find such a guild, one they can click with, without joining a lot og guilds and spending some time with them to see if they fit.  Basically becoming a guild hopper.

The LF* systems not only allows people to do dungeons on their own but allow people to do raids on their own.  It means there are fewer chances for any meaningful interactions in the game.  Any real interaction where you get to know people on your server so you can see where you might fit.

If you were a seasoned player you would know what you were looking for, so you could look directly for it, but if you were new and did not have the advantages I did, and who would have ever thought having to hand assemble groups was an advantage, how do you find a guild?

The social butterfly will never have a problem because they will talk to anyone that listens, but the anti social person only talks to people when they have to.  With the LFR and LFD, unless you plan to move into further raiding, there is no need to talk to anyone.  Even as an anti social person myself, I find that quite sad and I wonder, if I started today, would I ever be in a guild, would I even be raiding?  I don't think so because how would I even find one.

Helping Out Others

When someone in your guild asks for help with something do you help them?

That is really a loaded question that has no definitive answer.  At least not if you are going to ask me the question.  The reason I call it a loaded question is because there are way to many variables involved.  It can not simply be answered "yes I do" or "no I don't".  Not to mention, unless you are a world class jerk or the people in your guild are world class jerks who would ever answer "no I don't".

I believe that everyone would say "yes I do" and just leave it at that.  If you have ever read my blog you would know there is no such thing as a simple answer to a question like that if you ask me.  I'd have to think about it and ask you if you wanted the long answer or the short answer.

Short answer:  "Yes I try to help out people when I can."

Long answer:  That is where I explain in detail what "when I can" means.

Someone in the guild started a little firestorm the other day when the patch came out because "no one helps anyone here".  Meaning he believed the guild was unfriendly and that no one would help with the celestial bosses.

I said, when I came on most of the people that needed all four already got it done, so I started to do my stuff around the island and whenever I saw one of the 4 bosses I needed I just ran in and got in my hits and I got my 4 kills in no problem.

I explained it was just released content and everyone wanted to do it as soon as they came on.  Also, the bosses would be being pulled every few minutes anyway even on a small server like ours so I did not put up a group kill for release day.  Just get your shots in when you see a group, just like I did.

But while I believe what I said to be reasonable he decided that it just meant I did not want to help and no one else in the guild wanted to help because "they did it already so they do not care about anyone else".

I am not kidding, this is an actual situation that happened.  As ridiculous as it sounds someone wanted the entire guild to drop what they were doing to help on the day of new content when the boss is a shared tag boss that was being pulled every 10 minutes anyway.

He then gave an ultimatum that him and his friends where going to all leave the guild and take many people with them unless we changed our guild rules to require people to help others when they ask.

Again, I am not kidding, this was a real complaint and a real demand.

Do you know what my reply was, but I did not say it because I have experience in managing people I knew it would not be best to say it that way.  I what I wanted to say was good riddance, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

This is where I wonder what the line is for helping out others.  Was he reasonable to be upset no one would help him with the celestial kills?  I personally don't think so because it was patch day and everyone wanted to check things out, they were all busy with their own things and like I said, the bosses were basically being chain pulled to begin with.  But that is just my opinion, and others might disagree.  Apparently he did.  He believed that everyone should drop what they were doing to help him and if they didn't it was reason enough to try and start some guild drama.

See, that is why I could never answer "yes I do" to if I help people because the answer is not always that clear cut.  If I am in the middle of something else I won't.  If I am in the LFR or something like that I am not going to drop it to help.  If I did it already I might help, but when I switch to another character.  So while I might be willing to help, it isn't always a fact I will.  I might be doing something else and I think it is wrong to expect everyone to drop everything they are doing to help you.

The same goes for when people ask for gems or enchants or a belt buckle or shoulder or leg enchants.  I will be glad to help you, when I switch to that character.  But unless I am doing nothing at the particular moment you ask you have to wait until I switch.  I will never charge you or even ask for the mats, I will just give it to you, so the least you can do is not demand I switch right now to help you.

Honestly I did not even think for a second before I made my decision on his ultimatum.  I will not now or ever make a rule that requires other people to stop what they are doing to help everyone that asks.  Helping has to be because the person has the time, and willingness, to do so.  Once you force people to help they are no longer helping, they are doing a job, they are following rules.  That is not what the game is about. 

Sure, we need some rules, but that would not be one of them. 

If someone asks you for help with anything you have to drop what you are doing and help them or you will be kicked from the guild, screw having fun and enjoying yourself, everyone else is more important than you having fun.

Basically that is the rule he is asking us to add.  Not gonna happen.

The reason our guild works is because people help because they want to.  It is not only me that will make anything you need for your character, there are dozens of players in the guild that will make anything you need for free and all you need to do is ask.  There are many others that might not have the resources, but do have the skills, and will make it for you if you have the materials.  They all do it because they want to do it and that is what being a guild is all about.  But to demand they do it is out of line in my opinion.

He was told he would be given an answer to his demands this week, and it will be exactly what I said it would be, good riddance, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

On the average day I would have gladly sat around and helped people assemble a group for the 4 celestial bosses if they needed it.  I would have switched so I could loot on four different characters of course, but on day one of release, there is so much that everyone wanted to see and do that I felt it was incredibly selfish to ask everyone to drop what they are doing because you do not want to just get a hit in like me and many others that day have already done.

So in that case, it was a "no" to helping out.  And sometimes it has to be a no.

Let me give an example of an actual question I've been asked more than a few times this expansion and some of the actual replies that I have said.  Even if I would normally answer the help out question as "yes I do" you will see that more often than not I end up saying no.  But it is not because I do not want to help but sometimes it is just not practical to do so.

Can someone with a two seater mount fly me to dread wastes so I can start the quests there?

1) Sure, I'll send an invite.
2) You are in townlong, just talk to one of the shado pan with a quest marker, they will give you a quest to go to the serpent spire and open up the fight path, that will take you to where the klaxxi quests start in the dread wastes.
3) I am in queue for the LFR now, sorry.
4) I am on another server at the moment, if you still have not gotten there later I can take you.
5) I am waiting on this world boss group to start, I can help when we are done.

So 4 out of 5 times my answer was actually no but I still would give "yes" as my answer if asked straight out.  The reason being, is as I said, there is always a conditional and no matter what the conditions where, even if I said no, I was willing the help with all 5, just  of them were not possible to help with at the moment.

In case one I am currently not doing anything of consequence and am willing to head there.  In case two I use the teach a man to fish approach where I teach them how to get there so they do not need to depend on others to do so.  It is how most of us got there after all, unless you are like me and just jumped over the wall on the day of release and almost died.  In case three I would have been willing to help but I can not help because that would mean losing my place in queue, so effectively I am busy at the moment.  In case four I am not even on the server, as you can guess this means they asked in voice chat, so I can not help. And last but not least in case five we have the half and half.  Yes, I will help you in the immediate future, but I have to finish something first.  But from an instant assistance standpoint only one of my answers was yes.

Same goes for many other things.  I've given out hundreds of gems and enchants this expansion alone already but there are some people I just won't give them too.  I might suggest they buy the cheap versions, I might even offer to make them the cheap versions, but some people are honestly just not worth the effort.  You know the type I am talking about.  They are rarely on, they never help anyone but they always expect everyone to give them everything.  So being they are part time players they do not need top end things because they are not doing anything that might require it.  So I will help, but only in a limited way.  I will not use top end materials on someone that logs in once or twice a month.

While I will help everyone I do hold that motto to only help those that help themselves.  The huge difference there is when someone asks, can anyone help me with some gems, and I say, sure what do you need.  If they say, I need the agility & crit cut, 2 of them, I have no issue helping them.  If they say I don't know but I have 2 yellow slots I won't.  I will direct them to noxxic.com and tell them get back to me when they know what gems they need.  Once they help themselves by learning what they need, I will help them with what they need.  Call me an asshole if you want, but I think that is a fair line in the sand to draw.  If you ask me for help and say, do you think crit or haste is better for yellow, I will give my opinion but don't say, I don't know and expect me to do all the research for you. (even if I would know it to begin with anyway)

So as you see, there is no "yes I do" or "no I don't" even for people that like to help or refuse to help.  There is always some middle ground and in the case that made me think of this post, that middle ground was, it is patch day and there is a ton of new content.  No, people are not going to drop everything just to help you.  Get your tags in the same way the rest of us did.

For the record, week 2, we did the guild celestial thing.  You know why?  Because now it is not a new patch with everyone wanting to see all the new stuff on their own schedule based on when they logged on.  I guess the difference is, I understand that it is selfish to ask everyone to drop what they are doing for you and some others don't understand that.  I take all the help I can when I can get it, but I would never demand it.

I don't think I could ever make a guild rule that people have to help others.  Who would make a rule like that?  Good people will help, if they have the time to do so, but do not demand it from them, it is wrong, and selfish.

10s, 25s and Flex, Oh My.

As this week begins to pass I look forward to next week when the world or raiding changes once again for my guild.  The last time we experienced a change to the raiding face this large it was the end of wrath when they decided that 10 man and 25 man raids would share a lock out.  This is still the single worst change to the face of raiding in the history of the game, in my opinion of course.

At the beginning of cataclysm we lost a great deal of players.  In part to how dreadfully horrible of an expansion that cataclysm was, but also because of the shared lock outs between 10 and 25 man.  I am hoping we do not see a repeat of that when this change takes place.  But I don't think we will.  Blizzard is adding this time, not taking away.

In a strange sort of way they are bringing back two lockouts but with two difficulties, not to sizes.  But will flex and normal/heroic not being shared lock outs be a bad thing?  I already hear people talking about burn out and they have not even done it yet.

But with each good there is bad in everything.  My guild, walking into the next patch, is in a place it has not been for a long time and I am having trouble deciding what exactly I am going to do as far as raid schedule goes.

At the beginning of the tier we were your average struggling raid guild with only one tank meaning I needed to tank a lot and two of our three healers dreadfully under geared due to bad luck with drops and them not working as hard as they should have to make up for that bad luck with valor gear.

We struggled, like everyone else, with horridon.  Three shaman healers, one tank rotating all the time, and no one to fill in for the massive loss of a damage dealer that me tanking left open.  We worked our way through it.  You know how it goes if you ever raided.  You have to figure out what works for you and we did.  In time.

During that time guilds started folding left and right on the server and our guild was the only guild on the server that was not classified, by themselves, as hardcore.  We raided for 2 hours one night a week and sometimes 2 nights if we had enough on.  About as casual as you could get.

In time we started to absorb the lost souls looking for a place to be and we expanded, seemingly over night.  I started a 25 man team as my 10 man started to get further in.  It was not long after that we had a second 10 man running.

At this point we have three 10 man teams and a 25 man team.  Our 25 man is not so great of course because of the shared lock out thing in some cases.  But we are still good enough to make it top 1000 in the US, which is not really saying much, so please do not take that as tooting my horn.  When there are only 2000 25 man guilds to begin with it just means we are middle of the pack, the average casual raiding guild.  Basically nothing special.

Now with flex on the horizon I am looking at what I might set up for our raid schedule next tier, which is only a week away and it seems like it will be a huge task, an undertaking I am not completely sure I can handle.  We will be moving from a guild that was doing one or two organized raids a week to a guild that has enough people do be doing 4 raids, on different lock outs, and now flex in the same week.

10s, 25s, and Flex, Oh My

The main 10 man:

The main 10 man team is basically a core of people that have been together since firelands.  We have added 2 new people to the 13 man mix this tier and both have been exceptionally huge additions.  Some of those people go back a little further, but none of them are left from wrath.  It is the way things change.  The fact that the majority of the players have been together since firelands is amazing for a casual guild to being with.

While we will never compete for server firsts and are not a heroic group, I think the reason the group does okay is because we have been together so long.  Sometimes that really helps on fights where a lot of coordination is needed as there is usually very little that needs to be said.  When there is a fight where we need to split into three groups, they already know their groups without me even needing to say anything.  There is something to be said about playing with the same people for so long.  Sometimes what me might lack in skill a bit we can make up for in communication to compensate.

That group will be moving directly into 10 normal.  They will of course go on flex runs, more gear is always better, and anything that gets you gear and keeps you out of the LFR is welcome to all the people involved.

The second 10 man:

This group is basically made up of the people from the main 10 that are sitting that week and some of the best of the people we have recently picked up with all the other guilds going down.  While this group is the newest to our mix they have the potential to be a very powerful team.

It includes probably the most experienced raider in the guild currently based on time and content seen when current.  He has been around longer and raided harder than most people and is still a quality player.  Along with him come two husband and wife teams.  One is team is clearly better than the other but both are normal capable.  I just have some worries about one of the four as they can't seem to find a character they are comfortable playing, but they are willing to learn and put in the effort and will fill any role needed.  So that makes up for some of it.  I've been spending some time with him teaching him how to tank recently.

I am leaving this group in the capable hands of an ex raid leader I recruited back in cataclysm.  I had met them in wrath back when his guild was having issues in ICC and I joined them in 10s, as I was doing 25s and we had separate lock outs, and I helped him get his 10 man through some rough patches.  So when his guild folded early on in cataclysm he quit the game.  When he came back he joined us.  He has raid lead experience and had ran the second 10 man I had back in DS.  So he is more than capable of handling the job.

I will not be joining this group unless it is required as a fill in on one of my alts.  Like the main 10 man the fill ins will be picked from the people that do the best over all with the gear they have.  We use the 25 and soon the flex to evaluate the new people.  We do not look at numbers over all, we look at numbers based on gear level and awareness, attendance and ability to listen. 

The best players in the group might not always be the ones that the average player looks at and thinks is the best.  Case and point, when I needed a fill in for my 10 a few weeks ago I grabbed someone that most might not even have noticed was in the 25.  He did amazing and has been driven to get even better now.

This group will also be looking to enter into normals as soon as the patch comes out as they are more than capable of it.

The third 10 man:

This group was actually the second 10 man formed.  It is basically comprised of someone that wanted to do something on the weekends with some of his friends and family.  Of course it was green lit and being we had so many members, thanks to running 25s, he was more than welcome to work with them.

It was only a short time before he effectively alienated nearly everyone he offered to run with him.  Almost every time someone runs with him I get a whisper shortly after saying they do not want to run with him any more.

Even three people left his group, and the guild, to find a better raid team.  I guess they did not want to wait on the 25 to get better and they knew there would never really be a place for them in my 10 man, as their attitude did not fit my team mentality.  They were basically people that were completely elitist in mentality while still lacking in skill.  Oddly enough, they fit the team they left personality wise, as that is the reason that the raid leader for that team is alienating everyone that runs with him.

I will still offer tactical support to that group as I will help them with strategy, I will help craft their people gear if they need it.  I will provide potions, flasks, food, and whatever else they need.  But I will not run with them.  Not any more.  Almost my entire 10 man has run with them and nearly every single one of them came back after the run and said never again.

So this third 10 man team, while part of our guild, is effectively on their own by their own doing.  Instead of embracing people they scare them away.  Like last week when they needed a damage dealer one of the elemental shaman in the guild offered to help even if he did not feel like raiding.  There are so many great team players willing to do stuff like that in my guild, that is why I love them.

When the run was done they told the shaman he would no longer we welcome back and they will not be needing him next week.  Okay, he is 12/12 and that group could not down the 3rd boss, he was top DPS, brought the food for everyone and supplied it after each wipe, and helped when he would have rather not went just for the guild because he is a team player and you tell him he is no longer welcome with you?  Now you understand how he is alienating people?

This group has intentions of starting on normal but I really do not see it happening for them.  They only got 5 down and they were raiding for a long time.  And the only time they got 3, 4 or 5 down were when they had 3 (or more) people from my 10 man filling in for them.  Otherwise they never got past the 3rd boss.  So I do not expect much from them normal mode and will try my best to convince their raid leader to start them in flex only.  That is where they should be.

I believe, if he can find a team to stick with, and he does flex they can meld and begin to get better as a group and do just fine in time, but as it stands, this group is the perfect example of what flex raiding was made for.  Normals are just a tad too hard for them.  Perhaps if they finish off flex a few times they can move up to normals and become better players as a team.  That would be great, and perhaps offer them a taste of the humility they need, as that elitist attitude is not a good thing to have, even less so when you have no reason to have that attitude.  Flex is where they should be.

The 25 man team:

Speaking of where they should be, the 25 man should be in flex as well and will be starting there.  A mix of players from all three groups on alts and some others from guild the group is not half bad.  It suffered a late late start and really slow progression but downing the turtle for the first time a couple of weeks ago and meg for the first time the week before last, it finally seems like they are making some progression.  Heck, 5 bosses in one night for a 2 hour raid team like this is very good in my opinion, I am very proud of them.

Sure, we have some knowledgeable people in the group which helps but three of the six healers are still not even 510, one is sitting at 486, and many of the damage dealers wouldn't know 90K if you hit them in the head with it.  The group still needs a lot of work and I think that is where flex will come in.

It will allow those behind in gear to catch up and it will get them some valuable learning experiences in an organized group setting.  I am looking forward to "learning with them" instead of "teaching them".  When I had done all the fights already in 10 man it was a matter of me teaching them but being this is new content and we will all be experiencing it together for the first time we will be learning with each other.

This will be an amazing time to evaluate the skill of all these new players I have seen coming in and out week after week.  This is the beauty of flex.

Another one of the best things about flex is that it will make our 25 man team a hell of a lot better.  Before we could not just tell people "you are not good enough to be here" because how would they get better.  We use the 25s mans to train for the 10s being 25s are so much easier to carry people in.  Now with flex we can tell them, you are not ready to step up to 25 which means I will try to fill the 25s with 25 ready people instead of 18 ready people and 7 people we are teaching each week.

So the 25 man will start off in flex, but I think it has room to grow and maybe we can start normals on 25 a few weeks after the patch comes out.  In reality I am hoping to see the 25 in normals within a month at worst.

I am glad for flex, because that is the level I believe the 25 needs to be raiding at.  It is not quite ready to jump from normal to normal like the two 10 mans will.  But jumping from normal to flex then back to normal seems to be exactly what the doctor ordered just like the third 10 man team.

What has become of the raid week:

From a guild that was doing one or two nights a week at most we will now be running 7 days a week with multiple runs on weekends.  With the influx of new people and the addition of flex, I can see how this could very much mean burn out for a lot of people.

I am trying to limit my game play to keep myself from burning out too.  I am running the main 10 and the 25 but I will leave the rest in the capable hands of the other people in the guild.  We currently have 6 ex raid leaders, some of very successful teams in the past.  I am not to big to just stand aside and let them do whatever they can do wishing them the best of luck because after all anything any of us achieve we achieve as a team.

The way it looks now is that we will be running flex at least 4 days a week, maybe 5.  The main 10 will be doing 2 days, second and third 10 one day each and the 25, at some point, hopefully 2 nights a week.  That means upwards of 11 raids a week.  Most likely more at the start as I am sure on the weekend we can easily get extra flex groups going to gear up alts being there will be no other way to get alts gear now unless you really enjoy abusing yourself using the looking for raid.

Sometimes it just seems like too much going on all at once and I am not sure how I feel about that.  I like that there is a lot going on, but I do not like that it all feels like I "have to" do it just to keep up.  I still believe that normals should have been lowered in difficulty for the lesser players instead of another tier being added.  But this might work being it is on a different lockout.

I like the addition of flex because it really suits where I believe the 25 man should be but I am extremely worried for what the ramifications might turn out to be because of it.  Only time will tell, but looking at it now all I can say is 10s, 25s and flex, oh my.

How will flex change the way your raid?  More or less, or change of venue?  Do you think you will pug with flex or burn out because of it?

Setting up for Raiding in 5.4

My effort to creating a decent 25 man raiding team on a small server that has none and very few options to recruit from is still undergoing as my 25 man has finally started to show some progress.  They have still not passed horridon but at least they are now getting to him.  I think next week we will put the final nail in the dino's coffin. 

We are still light 5 damage dealers and a tank.  I picked up three more damage dealers this week when another guild folded.  As anyone knows, being it is not just my server, guilds are dropping like flies.  I am just playing the part of the opportunist and picking out the pieces I want to use and adding them to my efforts of making a 25 man.

I am currently still tanking which is fine with me.  I've learned to accept that is who I am most of the time like it or not.  Would I prefer if my hunter had a tank spec and I did not need to switch characters?  Yes.  But that will never happen so you work with what you have.

But this is not about what will not happen, this is about what is happening.  And with 5.4 comes a bunch of changes that actually will help my fledgling 25 man raiding team actually become a real one.  Two changes come to mind as the highlight for what could be the cure to my issues moving into 25 man raiding.

Flexible Raiding:

This will allow me to see more people in action, to train more people, to gear up people up a little faster.  Even if I was where I am right now, with 18-20 solid people for a 25 man, flex raiding could be the cure for all my problems.  Even with the lesser players and fills in at least we can still one shot the first boss.

Perhaps the difficulty of horridon is not such a bad thing in a way.  It really tests the people that say they want to raid and separates them from the people that actually want to raid.  There is a big reason why those extra spots are filled with different people each week and it is not because I told them they were not doing enough and they could not come.  It is because as much as they say they want to raid, they are not raiders and can not stand wiping.  Good.  Horridon is a trash disposal.  It gets rid of the garbage players that have no heart for raiding.

If anyone is willing to stick it out even if they are bad then I know they have potential to become a raider with perhaps a little more experience and a little more gear.  This is where flexible raiding comes in.  Now I can get them some of both.  Gear and experience in a situation that their inexperience and lesser skill level will not hinder the group as much as it would in the real raid.

It will not only give us a venue to allow them to experience a real raid environment and get them the experience and gear they need it will give us time to bond as a group.  One of the biggest things I preach to all my raiders is that we need to have the same people here each and every week.  The more we raid together the better we get to know each other and we learn how we all react to things and move during times of movement.  Never underestimate the power of a group that thinks as one.

You will never develop that in the LFR and it is a lot harder and takes a lot longer to develop that in the real raid.  Flexible raiding allows us that free extra lock out to work with.  A slightly easier path to successes.  And most importantly.  Another day we get to work together and in a less stress filled environment to boot.

To get a solid 25 man going you need at least 30 people.  We will still be running 2 10s, so we can offer the ones that sit from the 25 that week an outlet to raid still, if they are actually ready and if they aren't, we have the flex raid that we can run any night as a fill in with any number of characters between 10 and 25.  Yeah, that is a good thing.

Lets not even forget about recruitment.  I pugged 2 people last night to try and fill some spots.  One of those 2 ended up joining the guild afterwards.  I kind of knew he would and just wanted to see what we were like while raiding but his guild just died and he needed a home.  Works out that I really need damage dealers that can do more than 50K and he can do over 100K and get out of the bad, so he was a good fit even before he stepped in.  I was sure he would be joining and he did.

Flexible raiding will allow us the opportunity to try new people out and for them to try us out.  Something we have not been able to do since wrath.  It was always great to be able to pug.  Pugging was the ultimate recruitment tool in the game and if I could draw one connection to the fall of raiding and capable raiders, as we see it, that line would go directly from the lack of pugged content.

When you could make a second run with your mains and you did so you always were recruiting people.  Even when you were not trying to recruit people.  After the run someone was bound to come to me or one of the other guild members and ask to join the guild if they had liked us.

No pugs meant no seeing new people, seeing new guilds, testing out the waters.  It was luck or word of mouth that got you a raiding gig.  So flexible raiding means more opportunities for recruitment.

Our 25 will be well under way by the time 5.4 comes out if we keep up at this pace.  It is brutal to build on a server that does not have many to choose from, but we are working with what we have.  But just because we will be well under way with it does not mean we don't want to keep recruiting.  People come and go and to make sure we never get caught shorthanded I need more people to work with.  Good thing we will have more tools to get those people and test them out, like flexible raiding will be useful for in the future.

Virtual Realm:

But that is not the only good news for our 25 man.  The virtual realms really puts us in a power position at the moment when it comes to 25 man raiding on our server.  As the only 25 man guild on the server, even if our 25 team is only 1/12, we are sadly still the #1 25 man on the server.  Kind of hard not to be #1 when you are the only one.

The virtual realms will give us a larger pool to choose from.  More people to recruit. Maybe even better people than the ones we have on our server as it is.  When that time comes, even if there are better guilds out there and we are #8 over all on the server, 10 man of course, we will be the only guild that will be stepping into the new raid with a 25 man team.

Now that is a recruitment magnet.  Want to raid 25 man?  We have the only one going on our server.  While the other guilds can start building to a 25 and will surely eclipse us if they can duplicate their 10 man success, we do have our foot out the door before they do and a head start can't hurt us at all.  Not like we need a lot of help to catch up.  The top 10 man guild on our server is only 2/13.

With the roughly three months we have before the new patch, which in wow time is really not a long time, we can really develop as a team.  If we can at least keep 20 of the 25 if we are not able to fill those last spots with decent people, the virtual reams will assure us that those last 5 spots will be filled by quality players the second 5.4 comes out.

25 man raiding is an attraction.  It is why I get roughly 50 whispers a week asking if they can come with me this week.  This is on a server that probably only has 50 or so decent players on it.  People want to do 25s.  People like 25s.  I just tell them, guild first, and if I have some space I will keep them in mind.

In the past four weeks I have invited a total of 4 people that were not in guild to join us.  One of those 4 had an alt in the guild to begin with and two of the other 3 have since joined us.  That third will follow, I am sure of that.

When I have those few spots open I use them wisely to invite the people I have seen raid or know can raid and hopefully I can interest them in joining us.

It is amazing what a decent group of people can do.  We had someone that was 11/12 leave their guild to join us even after we never got past the second door on horridon because, as she said, you guys are not jerks about wiping like my old guild was, you try to get better and help each other.  I'd rather be here with less progression and be 1/12 25 instead of 11/12 10 any day.  And wow, she was a great pick up too, an amazing healer that has not one but two geared healers and a long history or raiding.  Something very rare to find on my server.  I am sure with virtual realms we can grab a few more like her in time and that is why it could very well be a great addition for us.

But one thing I worry about is that it could be a double edged sword.  I could lose the entire group I have been trying to build just as easily.  What if a guild on one of those servers wants to build on their 25 and is doing heroics?  I just have to keep working and building and hope I can keep what I have.  It is a risk I am willing to take but not like I have a choice.  Virtual realms are coming and they could be good or bad.  I think they will be good for a group like us.

Anyone reading here will know the hell I have had working on making this group and finding people that will show each week.  You will also notice that we have been moving slow.  Really slow.  But we have finally made it to wiping on horridon and not on the doors and that is progress.  Now if only I could fill those last 5 spots with people that knew how to get out of the stupid and do some decent damage we would have downed it last night.

Another week and more shuffling around.  Perhaps next week I can dig up a few more people to fill out the roster.  It is times like that I wish I had more to choose from than what my server has.  In 5.4, I will.

So setting up for 5.4, here is my todo list.

Keep recruiting to fill out that main 25 man.  Get the second 10 man up group caught up to the first which is 3 bosses ahead of it.  Keep recruiting for the possibility of fill ins.  Get to the point where we can run 2 25 man flex raids at some point so I always have a selection of player to choose from to fill in and can continuously view new players in a controlled environment.

Then when 5.4 comes out, take advantage of flex raiding and the virtual realms to boost an already set up and ready to roll 25 man raiding guild.

I can't tell you how good it felt that first time downing a boss as a full guild group on 25 man.  It has to have been about 3 years or more since I can say we have done that.  It was a nice feeling.  I just hope it all turns out as well as I envision it could.  But I will not hold my breath, blizzard does have a way of screwing things up.

I am looking to start a raid patch as a 25 man guild.  I honestly can not recall ever doing that before.  Ever.  Not once did a patch come out and I knew who all 25 players would be.  I think I have a chance for that happening now.  I real chance, and I like it.

The 25 man started really late but we have three months left before the next patch.  My goal is to be at least 10/12 25 man normal by the time 5.4 comes out.  It seems a realistic goal now.  Just one short month ago with half the people struggling to do 40K it did not seem like a possibility.  But a few weeks passed, a few new people were added, and now it looks like we will be moving ahead again. 

It took a lot longer than I would have wanted it to but it does look like it could be a reality now.  Moving into 5.4 with a fully functional 25 man raid team.  Some people might look at that and think 10/12 is nothing to be impressed with and while I might agree most of the time I have to point out that we are the only guild on the server that has even managed 1/12 25 man.  So yes, 10/12 on my server would be a huge success with the changing coming only meaning it could get better.

We are surely setting ourselves up to be in a good position when 5.4 comes out because we will already be doing 25 man runs.  How odd is that?  We were doing it because we wanted to and now it seems that it will end up helping us get better thanks to flex raids and virtual realms.  Makes you think I knew those two things were coming and that is why I started to do this a month ago, doesn't it.? ;)

There is always a method to my madness.  Or is that a madness to my method?

They're All Gone

With this tier of raiding coming to a close I've come to the realization that the people from my original raid team, the first one I connected with, the first one I was a regular with, are all gone.  It happens to us all in the game if we play long enough.  Even if it is a video game it is a team sport of sorts and you remember your first regular team.

It is like a snapshot of the mind and I can see it as clear as day.  Us, as a group, smiling and standing there together victorious over some big baddie we worked so hard to defeat. The team picture of me with my first regular raid team.  I might have raided some before them and lots after them, but that team picture remains clear in my mind.  The first team I fit in with.  The first team I raided with on a regular basis.

And now here we are in the first raid tier without even one of them as a part timer joining me at any given point.  It is really rare for anyone to stay with the original people they raided with as long as I have but it is not hard to understand how that happened.  When I moved, most of them moved with me, and when wrath was coming to a close we all found ourselves back in the same place together again to rekindle what we had earlier.

So even if there had been changes over the years in peoples ability to play time wise or skill wise or even class wise as some changed the class they wished to play and there were times we changed guilds or were even in different guilds that first real team I was in stayed friends and stayed together, even when apart.

With T14 coming to an end I face the realization that not once this entire expansion have I raided with any of those other 9 people.  Even at that I think that only three of those original 9 even have a 90 now and only one of those original 9 would even consider being a back up if we needed them and even he has been away for an extended period due to real life issues.

We lost them all during cataclysm at some point.  Perhaps that is one of the reason I think cataclysm is the worst expansion ever, because it destroyed what I had.  They were basically a group of mostly vanilla players, some even beta version vanilla players and they all disappeared at some point last expansion.  We lost some to rift, a couple to starcraft and a few to just getting busy and not being able to play for real life reasons or really disliking the turn the game had taken.  Whatever their reasons might be, they're all gone now.

So this week in what will probably be the last raid week of this raid tier I stood there in a room in game with 9 other people whom I have become close with and have raided with for a while now and somehow I felt alone. 

Knowing this cycle has come to an end and never once being able to raid with any of the people I started raiding with left me feel as if something was missing.  They were the ones who took me in when I knew nothing and they were all veterans.  The ones that taught me just the same way I teach people now.  The first friends I made in game were all gone and even surrounded by new friends I had made it just felt as if something was missing, as if I lost something, as if I were alone.

It is the end of the age of innocence for me.  The last mentor, so to speak, was gone.  Not once did I have them to to fall back on.  It was all on me this time.  I was the old timer.  Even if there are some people in my current raid team that are vanilla players and have played longer then I, they are new to this crew, my crew.  I am now the elder.  I am now what those 9 people were once to me.

It is human nature to look back and remember first times for everything in life.  You will fondly remember those things and it is the reason most people like to see things with rose tinted glasses as the expression goes.  This isn't a case of that however, at least I do not think it is. 

I am not thinking about how how much better it was, or even saying it was, I am just thinking about how that was the time I first fell in love with the game and realizing that while the game has changed immensely over the past years so have I and the people I play with.  Not a case of better back then, just a case of me being a different person then and knowing that I will never be that person again.  You can't have another first time, there is no such thing as falling in love again even if generations of poets and romantics will argue otherwise.

A day comes in all our gaming lives where we feel as if a torch has been passed and even if I have been a raid leader for around about 3 years now I was still always "the new guy" and suddenly, just like that, a raid tier finishes and those people that made me the new guy are gone and I am now "the old timer".   Yeah, just like that, just that simple.

They might all be gone, the ones I started with and the ones that taught me how to be the player I am today, but they will always be there as a part of me.  Maybe the day will come when they come back, this is warcraft after all, no one ever leaves, they just take breaks.  The time might come when they come back and they will be welcomed as if they never left because it is about the friendships that we made, not about raiding or progression or anything like that, that is just what brought us together.  Our friendship were forge because of what they were, not what we did.

I've been part of many guilds in my time, even a few on the server I am talking about, but none ever felt like family except this one.  I've been a part of guilds that were designed around trying to be close knit and ones that were just leveling factories.  I've been in guilds with better progression and worse.  I've been in horde side and alliance side.  But this one, this is the one I fit with.  Not sure why or how, it just fit, and that is an exceptional thing to be able to say because not many ever really find a place like that.  Somewhere along the line, no matter what ever happened and when I decide to move on myself, I will always remember that first team I connected with because when it all comes to an end, in a game like this, it is the connections you make that you will remember for ever, even if they're all gone now.

I can almost picture my character going home after raiding last night knowing it would be the last time against these particular bosses knowing that soon he will be moving along to a new set of challenges and thinking about his past companions.  Sitting down at his desk and pouring a glass of the finest dwarven whiskey he could get his hands on and putting his feet up on his desk while looking at the group photo taken when he first met these wonderful wonderful people and raising the glass to them to make a toast.

To absent friends.

LFR Guilds? Cross Realm Guilds?

There are already what we consider the standard guilds.  The hard core raiding guild.  The raiding guild.  The PvP guild.  The causal guild.  The leveling guild.  The future is looking as if we have have a few new styles of guilds popping up soon.  One is already beginning to form and another I do not see far behind, we are just waiting for the technology to catch up.

Meet the new guilds.

Looking for Raid Guild:

These are already starting to make an appearance.  Guilds whos main focus is doing the looking for raid as a group on Tuesdays.  Just like the hardcore guilds might do progression (or farm) on the reset, the LFR guilds do the LFR as a group on Tuesdays.  Of course their main focus is their guild so everyone rolls need on everything and they all share it between themselves to get every one geared as efficiently as possible.

The idea for a looking for raid guild is a completely different type of play.  It is to get as many people into a raid that has the "real" raid feelings while still being of the LFR difficulty level.

It is sort of like a leveling guild but for raiding.  They would be leveling their raiding skills.  They will do the real raid on Wednesdays and Thursdays but their focus is getting everyone geared through the raid finder and teaching people how to raid.  They use vent, cauldrons of battle, food, and strategy.  They actively use the LFR for its true intended purpose, a place to gear up, learn and have fun.

If the looking for raid ever comes out with a 10 man version I can tell you to keep an eye out for these types of guilds as more will begin to pop up.  The looking for raid guild is the perfect step between the leveling guild and the casual raiding guild.  It would give a guild the freedom to run the LFR or the real raid depending on who shows up.

It is quite possible you can see the looking for raid guilds also crossing paths with the raiding guild or even the hard core raiding guild when content is brand spanking new just to gear people up for the real raid a little faster.  It seems like the looking for raid guild is something we will be seeing more of in the near future and seeing a hell of a lot more of should they ever make a 10 man version, like they should.

While many of those other types of guilds might do the looking for raid as a group you will be able to tell the difference between them by the fact the LFR guilds main focus is to make sure they do the LFR each week as early after the reset as they can.

Cross Realm Guild:

There are none of these yet and there will be none of these in the near future, but there could very well be some in the coming years if the feature is added and mark my words, it will be added.  With the advent of cross realm raiding it is only a matter of time before cross realm guilds get added to the game.

Instead of having to pick and choose people from your real id friends list and assemble a group you will be part of a cross realm guild with them and others.  This will make recruiting people for raiding guilds a million times easier.  Now when you post you are looking for a healer on blackwater for your raid team you do not need to get people on blackwater or people willing to server transfer, you just need to get people willing to share their real id.

To make it so guild can still get guild achievements there will have to be a way to have people on different servers in the same guild as you so cross realm guilds can't really be that far behind.  Can they?

The whole focus of guilds seems to be changing all the time as the face of the game chances.  No guilds are just one thing any more, except for maybe leveling guilds but even they have some people that stay in them forever.  Most guilds seem to be all encompassing now.

The cross realm guild however will be bound to what is currently considered high end content because they are on different servers.  They will not run into each other in stormwind, they will not be able to help each other with quests or running alts through dungeons and things like that.  They will be for raiding / battlegrounds / arena / dungeons, basically anything instanced.  Does this mean that this will really be the future of hard core raiding?  Get the best players from all over the world in one guild while being on different servers?  This will change the face of world first forever if cross realm guilds come to be.

These are two types of guilds I can see popping up and in a way I think both would be really good for the game.

Building a Casual Raiding Guild

Common Casual Misconceptions:

Casual guilds let anyone raid:
Some might.  Most don't.  They still require people to be able to do the job.  They still want people gemmed, enchanted, reforged, and speced correctly.  The only difference is that we let anyone raid that does those things, even if they are not great players and try to help them get better.

Casual guilds do not have the ability to stick it out:
I am not sure where this idea first came from but wiping is not something only hard core guilds endure.  Casual guilds do as well.  As a matter of fact, being able to deal with wiping is one of the requirements we ask of all our raiders when they first apply.  The difference is a casual guild might wipe for 2 hours and give up whereas a hard core guild wipes for 4 or 6 hours before they give up.  The reason for this is that a casual guild was only going to raid for 2 hours anyway, wipes or not.

Casual guilds can not progress at a good pace:
When new content hits my guild is a top 10 guild on the server.  After a few months we are down to 30 or 40 or further even.  It is not because we are not moving at a good pace.  We down bosses just as fast as everyone else.  It is because we put in less hours per week that makes it look like we are behind.  In many cases if you counted "time spent in raid" instead of real life time, our guild progresses faster then most top 10 guilds. 

Casual players are just not as good:
Another mistake people make.  Casual does not mean bad.  Casual just means that they do not spend as much time on it as someone else might.  Spending less time on something does not mean you are bad at it.

Casual raiders do not care about doing their best:
Tell that to my raiders.  No one shows up ungemmed, unenchanted, unrefored or unprepared. Just because we are casual does not mean we do not try our best.

Casual guilds do not do heroic content:
To some extent this is true. Sometimes they dabble in them, sometimes they do many of them, but most times, they would rather start from the beginning again with some new players so they can also get a chance to experience the raid and get some gear.

What Should a Casual Raid Expect From Raiders:

1) Team players
- Without a doubt this is the single most important part of building a casual team.  You need people willing to rotate, people willing to sit out, people willing to run on a alt to help group make up.
2) Class knowledge
- Casual does not mean bad.  Remember that.
3) Gems, Enchants, Flasks, Food, etc.
- Just because you are casual does not mean you do not need these things when raiding.

What a Casual Raid Accepts That a Hard Core Team Might Not:

1) Connection
- Hard core teams need people to have a solid connection.  Casual raids teams are more forgiving to some extent.  Too many connection problems and you will be sitting out but a blip here and there will not get you kicked from the raid.
2) Someone making a mistake
- A casual raid will most likely tease you about your mistake, they do not expect you to be perfect from the first attempt.
3) Someone slightly undergeared
- Casual guilds often have to use fill in players which means someone that is not exactly ready might be dragged along just to fill the raid, as long as they are good at their class.

How to Succeed at Casual Raiding:

1) Adapt
- Unlike hard core guilds you will often find yourself in odd situations where you do not have a good team make up.  All ranged or all melee, or short a tank or short a healer.  A casual raid teams will make it work.  Like solo tanking a two tank boss with creative use of cool downs.  Two healing a three heal fight by changing how you approach the fight.  You have to be able to use the tools available to you.  Casual raiding really is bring the player and not the class because you have no choice sometimes.
2) Bad Players
- Unlike hard core teams that can spot a bad player a mile away the first time you see them raid even if everything about their gear and spec seemed perfect, bad players can sometimes go unnoticed in a casual guild for a while.  You need to learn to spot the difference between someone that is learning and adapting and someone that just can not do it.
3) Positives
- Even wipes can have positive side effects if you look for them.  You have to not only know how to spot the good within the bad but know how to make that work as a motivator.  I can not tell you how many times this expansion alone after 4 or 5 wipes on one boss we made one more attempt with a "what was positive about the wipes" speech before we made our last attempt for the night only to end up with a boss kill.  Three times this expansion it was a boss that was what is called a progression boss, a first time kill. 

Setting Up The Raid Team:

1) Attendence
- Even casual guilds have people that will have excellent attendance.  If those players are good then build around them, do not "try" to fit them in.  Build around the people you know will always be there and are good at what they do.
2) Performance
- Just because you are assembling a casual raid team does not means you can be loose with the terms on what is needed from your players.  If you run into a boss that needs 24K DPS form everyone it needs 24K DPS from everyone.  No way around that.  Just because you are a casual raiding guild the boss is not going to give you a break.  Do not ever fall back on "we are casual so we can't do it until we over gear it".  A casual guild can do anything a hard core guild can, it just takes us longer because we do not play as much.  Expect hard core performance even if you only raid 2 hours a week.
3) Pride
- Isn't that one of the deadly sins?  Well, who cares, be proud of what you accomplish even if to others it might not seem like anything special.  My guild went into DS the first time and one shot two bosses.  We did not even experience a wipe until the third.  That is a great team motivator.  We are not a heroic guild so the average item level of the team was probably in the 370-375 range and there were 385-390 geared people that wiped on the same bosses we downed in one shot the first time we saw it.  Nothing wrong with letting your team know they did good and should be proud of themselves.

Once Again, Team Players:

1) Alts
- People that can fill any roll and are geared and knowledgeable are a god send.  We have a few non raiders in my guild that have many alts and we often pull them in, sometimes for only one fight, just to get things done.  We also have many people, like myself, that can fill any roll and do whatever is needed.
2) Sitting Out
- People that can accept sitting out are a staple of a good casual guild.  Most casual guilds have more players then they have raid spots and everyone want to get into a raid once in a while.  People that are willing to rotate make it so much easier.  I am the raid leader and I sit out from time to time just to let someone else in when I know the group has 8 or 9 others that know the content really well enough to not even need a leader.
3) Not Greedy
- This tier shows exactly why we have had success as a casual guild.  When tier tokens drop and someone has the LFR version they will pass to someone that does not have even a 384 to help them get their set bonuses.  People that share the loot because they want to instead of because they are asked to makes for a better team.

Just Remember:

1) It's Not Easy
- Building a decent casual raid guild is harder than building a hard core raid team.  Hard core raid teams have people that want to get in and if they lose someone there are 100s of people dying to take that spot while casual raid teams need to sift through everyone else and hope to pick out the ones that make things work and sometimes just can't find anyone that fits the bill.
2) Don't Get Attached
- Casual raiders usually fall into three categories. 
A) Bad players - which you have to decide if they can get better or get out. 
B) Ambitious players - which are only raiding with a casual guild to get experience so they can try to get into a more progressed guild.
C) Time restrained players - that have other real life issues that sometimes mean they come and go. 
- All three types might be around every day for months and then leave at a moments notice.  While you might miss them as people and players, you have to learn that people come and go and do not let it effect you.  You also need to remember that just because someone was a super raider in T11 does not mean he is ready for T13 the moment he comes back.  Do not let your feeling for the person or player effect what is best for the team.
3) Keep it Fun
- You are not pressing for a world first or even a server first.  Is server 40th really that bad of a thing?  Not at all, if anything it is a good thing.  While the server first group has blown through the content so quickly they get bored with it you took your time and had fun with it.  Also, you can continue to have fun with it by bringing new people through it that have never been there.  There is something to be said about experiencing the first time downing a boss a second time and a third time with other people having their first time.  It is a different mind set for raiding and it is not for everyone but if it is for you, then it will remain fun for you and extend the life of the content for you.

End Note:

The Great Plus and Great Minus for LFR for the Casual Guild.

Plus:  A great way to help gear up faster and get some experience with the basic concept.

Minus:  Everyone seem to think they "know" the fight even if they only did it in LFR.

Guild Loot Drama

One of the best parts of being in a casual guild that is mostly an adults only guild is that there is usually no loot drama.  Unlike kids most adults are reasonable when it comes to loot.  What I don't get today I will get next week.  That is the way most adults think of things.  Not all mind you, but most.

Our guild has some very simple loot rules, as most casual guilds do.  One main spec win per boss, two main spec wins per raid unless no one else can use the item main spec then you could have more, and if something is a much bigger upgrade for someone else the officers have the right to assign it to someone more needing.

The third rule has never been used.  Usually you just mention that it will be a huge upgrade for someone else and the person passes it without even needing to be asked.  Another beautiful thing about being in a casual guild filled with adults.

That rule was put in place if it ever came down to something like someone wanting a side grade, 10 more crit and 10 less haste, even if it is an upgrade, over someone that was wearing something 26 item levels lower.  We have never had to use it, but that is why the rule exists.  Our members are smart enough to know that a side grade for them, even if it is an upgrade, is not more important then a real upgrade for someone else.

So where did the loot drama come from?

Someone that was not even in the raid at all.  This is the main reason it bothers me.  I am not the guild leader so I left it be but if I where the guild leader the offender would have been guild kicked so hard he would land on another server.

If other people left because they agreed with him, then I say good riddance, we do not need people like that in our guild.  Everyone is replaceable, even me as the raid leader is replaceable.  I have no problems waving goodbye to anyone that causes problems.

As I am the raid leader however I can handle it from my standpoint.  Mr trouble maker will no longer be invited to any raids I assemble.  I have no patience for trouble makers.

First the story of what happened, then what he did.

We downed Domo and the warrior, shaman, hunter shoulder token dropped.  I don't think I have seen one drop this expansion.  Might have been one in T11 but I do not recall.  I know none have dropped in T12.

Everyone in the raid had at least 359 or better shoulders except for three people.  Me (hunter), another hunter and the shaman.  See, no warrior, shaman, hunter tokens drop this expansion, that is why we all need the token.  All three of us where in heroic shoulders.  Oh joy.

The hungerer also dropped.  The rogue already has it so me, the other hunter and the feral druid all rolled on it.  The other hunter won it.

The shaman and I rolled on the shoulder token and I won.

I offered the other hunter the option of the shoulder or the trinket.  He knew of the one item per boss rule and I felt I would give him the choice.  Either one would be an upgrade for me so I really did not care.  I also did this in public, so everyone knew.  We do have rules regarding trades or passes so letting everyone know the offer was required.

He decided to keep the trinket.  Same thing I would have done really.  Trinkets are harder to come by but shoulders we will be replacing (or getting if you do not have a 378) in the new heroics next week.  So he made a good decision.

Any other loot is not part of the equation so no need to mention it.

After the raid was over, we did not get rag down of course being we only had one attempt at him being the raid time was done, most people headed off.

I went to turn in my token, threw my agility gem in it and got my enchant and headed off happy to have my four piece set, even if it will only last for one week.

The next day I got a text from the shaman telling me about someone complaining that I should have never gotten that piece and that I should have passed it to her.  He even "backed up" his reasoning for that by pointing on the loot rules that are on the guild web site that state it should be given to someone that needs it more.

He apparently complained about it so much after I left he even convinced other people I was wrong for taking it.  This is why I now say he deserves a guild kick and a hard one at that.

1) It had nothing to do with him, he was not even in the raid.
2) Quoting rules from the guild site and being wrong while quoting them is bad.
3) Trying to create an issue where there was none is not good for the guild.

What it comes down to is the fact that he is a 16 year old boy and the shaman in question is a female.  So you know how all 16 year old boys think.  Come to her defense and maybe he can woo her.  Silly, I know, but he is a kid, what do you expect.

If he ever decides to run his own guild or raids he is welcome to institute the everyone pass to the one that has breasts rule, but we do not roll that way in my guild.  Everyone is an equal.  We do not give loot to someone just because they are female.  Another reason why adult guilds are better.  16 year old boys tend to think with the wrong head most of the time.

There was one little problem with what he did however.  He did not know the connection between the shaman and myself.  I make extreme efforts to never show any favoritism what so ever so no one that did not already know would ever know at all.

I've been friends with the shaman for a long time.  We are not talking in WoW here.  Her and I have been friends for years before I started WoW.  We do the whole phone thing, going for coffee thing, you get the idea.  Our friendship is not from the game, it just happens to carry into it.

So needless to say, she told me everything he said.  If anything proves I do not give any favoritism that sure as hell does.  So much so that he had no clue who he was talking to because I've never treated her any different from anyone else in the guild to make it appear as if I even knew her outside of game.

It is him trying to create trouble that bothers me most.  That is what I dislike.  He is trying to make drama where there is none and that is what can rip guilds apart.  People like him are poison to guilds.

After talking to her I started to think of a list of reasons that would shoot him down.  I have not said them to him but I thought I would share them here with you, the people that willingly listen to me ramble for some strange reason.

Let me point out, all I really need to say is reason one.  Any argument he has was lost after that one alone. The others just popped to mind to point out how amazingly wrong he was to complain.

1) I won the role.
2) I had not won anything this run, so the 2 per raid limit does not apply.
3) We both had equal shoulders, so it was not a "bigger upgrade" for her.
4) If applying the "bigger upgrade" theory, it got me the 4 piece set, it would have been #3 for her.
5) Applying the what is best for the guild idea, we heal things just fine.  If anything we are over healing rag with three healers.  We need more DPS.
6) I never roll when I am on an alt at all.  My warrior, my priest, my shaman, my druid, my paladin, have all been in firelands.  None of them have ever rolled on one piece of boss loot.  I always pass to others being these are not my mains.
7) I've only missed one raid in two years, she has a 60% attendance rate.
8) If we ever decided to two heal rag, she would be the one healer sitting out and she knows that.
9) She would have offered me the piece even if she won it because in her own words, you are here more than I am and will get more use out of it.

She even said that to him.  She told him that it would be put to better use for me.  She pointed out a lot of the things I said like her attendance and he would not give it up.  He kept pushing about it about how I was wrong about how it was bad for the guild that I "take things for myself" that other people need.

Mind you, I do not consider it taking things for myself.  It is only the second piece of gear that I have even rolled on in firelands that was not from trash on any of my characters.  I usually let everyone else gear up first.  If I ever saw the BoE polearm I would roll on that but I have never seen it drop.

He said to her that I decide who gets gear because of something I said last week when we were on Domo.  Someone had to leave so we bought him in as a fill in and I told him that if the polearm drops he can not roll on it, it is going to our feral druid.

Since firelands came out we, as a guild, have agreed that any of the BoE polearms that drop the feral druid would not roll on and if the one from Domo dropped no hunters would roll on it.  I am sure many guilds did the same thing.  It is fair and it is a well known decision the guild is aware of because of the added bonus that the polearm has for druids.  Just our luck we have never seen either of the two drop.

I am guessing this is where his opinion that I decided who gets loot comes from.  Because we invited him into a fight and I told him that our druid would get the polearm.  In my opinion, if that is his reasoning then he is an immature, selfish, trouble making, useless team member.

I was considering telling the guild leader, who I am sure will read this, that they either kick them from the guild or I leave.  That is a harsh response to things and I will not actually go that far but that does show you how strongly I fell about it.

I will however make it well known, should the event ever come up, that I will not team with him.  He will never get an invite to any raid I assemble and when we do our other teams if he is in the raid they will need to find another tank or healer to fill the hole because I will not be in the same raid with him.

If he asks me why, which I am hoping he will, I will tell him everything I posted here.  I will explain that I do not like people that start trouble for the sake of starting trouble.

I will explain that I play the game for fun and it is not fun to have to worry that some immature person is most likely going to cry over someone winning a roll over him or even worse, cry over rolls that do not even involve him.  Bitch about your bad luck with rolls, complain about your bad luck with rolls, but never start a problem about it because you think one person "deserves" it more then another. 

Sure, some people do deserve it more then others.  In T11 we had a new druid healer gearing up that we got a few nice pieces for right off the bat and she has never raided with us since even though she is still in guild.  I did not think she deserved them back then but she won the roll and that means she won.  My opinion of if she deserved it or not is irrelevant.  This is a casual guild, everyone that helps kill the boss deserves anything they win the roll on.  It is as simple as that.

If we where a hard core raiding guild then you can start talking about who "deserves" gear.  I can assure you that no hard core raiding guild on the face of the earth would say that a player with a low attendance rate and a connection so bad they can not even run addons "deserves" it more than someone with a near perfect attendance rate and a rock solid connection most of the time.

I'll give her all the due respect she deserves however.  She is an amazing healer.  She heals all that stuff with absolutely no add ons with a low frame rate and still manages to stay competitive and avoid mechanics.  I know she spends a lot of time memorizing the fights on you tube because as she says, she needs to react as well as if she has DBMs without actually having it so she has to study it to make sure she does. 

I don't think I could do what she does, raid reaction sure, but healing without a healing addon?  I am spoiled, I don't think I could do that, maybe with mouse overs but she does not even use those.  She heals old school vanilla type healing.  She is an outstanding healer, I can only imagine how good she would be with a good connection and a decent computer.  So credit where credit is due.  But that does not means she deserves something more then someone that won the roll for it.

Again, the thing that gets to me the most about this is that he is trying to create problems where there are none and he is actually swaying people into agreeing with him because he will not give it up.  I don't like trouble makers and I would love to see him gone.

He is just lucky I am not a jerk or I would have kicked him already without even consulting anyone.  I am a fair person, about as fair a person you will ever meet in game.  So I did not kick him even if he deserved it.

What are your opinions?

Undocumented Change and New Shineys

Hunters did not really see a lot of changes this patch, which is good.  It seems each time I get used to something they change it.

There are changes we call good and changes we call bad.  Some changes however are just what we call quality of life changes.  Usually those are good ones and this time it is a good one I've been asking for.

When you die and come back you now have the same aspect on you had when you died.  It is an undocumented change but it is a good one.  I am glad to see they finally did that.  Now if only our pets where out automatically like they are in battlegrounds when we come back life would be so much better.

I know they removed aggressive stance from pets which I greatly disagree with, it does have uses, and replaced it with an assist stance, which is actually rather useless.  Any good hunter knows how to assist to begin with so it is a redundant ability that we do not need.

If they really wanted to add it they could have added it as a forth one and left aggressive in.  I still see no reason to replace something that actually had uses with something that has no use except for bad players.  Screw bad players I say.

What I did not realize is that they also removed defensive stance.  Or so it seems.  I am going to guess it is just a bug right now but defensive stance does not work at all.  Well, not at all isn't accurate, sometimes it does, most of the time it doesn't however.

My first dungeon with the new stances I left my pet on defensive, the same thing it has been on since the beginning of time except for the rare occasion where passive or aggressive was needed.

My pet just stood next to me and did nothing.  He did not attack.  Okay, seems like you need to do assist now for a pet to attack?  That really seems completely useless.  Assist does not help me in any way, shape or form.  I am often attacking one target while I have my pet on another, for various reasons, good hunters will understand that.

Now with assist it will switch to my target, so I have to put it on passive and micro manage it to go to a different target.  So they made this change to make things simpler, yet it makes more work.  How exactly is that simpler?

Please say the defensive stance is a bug.  It worked perfect when questing.  I attacked something, it attacked it as well.  If I attacked something and switched targets, it stayed on the target I first attacked.  Just like it is supposed to.  Defensive worked fine alone.

It was in a group that defensive went to all hell.  Defensive means a cross between, useless, retarded and aggressive when in a group however.

Useless, it will not attack what I attack.  I have to manually send it in.

Retarded, it does not attack things that attack me.  Well, sometimes it does, sometime it just looks at me and wonders why I am taking damage instead of trying to protect me.

Aggressive, I thought it was removed but apparently defensive stance is bugging out sometimes and in some completely interesting ways that I never even saw aggressive do. 

My pet took off twice, out of nowhere to go after mobs that where just standing there minding their own business.   Once it ran past 3 mobs to go after another mob 20 yards behind them pulling 2 packs and a boss all at once.

Thanks for making me look like a huntard blizzard.  Making defensive not work when I want it to and making it work like aggressive at the least opportune moment.  I am glad it was all guild, we got a laugh out of it.

I am going to hazard a guess and say defensive is supposed to work just like it used to, which if that is true I am fine with it, and that it is just broken at the moment.

It would not surprise me, misdirect and feign death where broken after 4.1 came out.  Glad it only took them one day to fix that however.

Over all, as far as changes go, hunters got it easy.  The multi shot nerf doesn't look like much on paper but it was huge in effectiveness.  I went for each shot hitting for between 10K-12K to each shot hitting between 6K-8K.  That seems like a bit more then lowering it from 137% to 120%.

New patch, new raid, new shineys.

I got myself two new shineys last night and they are awesome.  Too bad it was my warrior running and not my Hunter.

Sometimes I think my Hunter will never get to run ever again.  I am seriously considering  finding another guild for my Hunter so he can raid some.  I'll tank and heal if need be for my guild on raid night but I would rather be on my main.  Being my main gets no face time, might as well move him along, he serves no purpose in my guild any more.  Not even sure why he is still there.

Have to love new loot, it sometimes seems to be the only reason we play.  You grind to get best in slot, you get there, you get bored, you wait until there is more loot for you to aim for (and more bosses to kill of course).

I am going to take it slow this patch and try to gear up more then one DPS, one healer and one tank.  If anything, just as an effort to keep myself from getting bored again like I did last patch.  That all depends on how horrible pugs are however, so being they will be horrible I don't expect much.

I love new shineys.  I am glad to have new dailies to do.  I am liking firelands so far.  It feels like a wide open zone that you need to do with a group.  That is a sweet feel in my opinion.  I was getting bored of the straight line approach, even if that usually fits my liking.

I see a lot of rep runs in my future.  Good thing the trash in firelands is not that bad.  Except for those turtles.  Those turtles are the only things that wiped us.  Oops.