Thursday, August 6, 2015

Is Survival Becoming a Melee Spec?

There was a lot mentioned at the expansion announcement I would love to talk about but one thing more than anything ran out to me.  With the new artifact weapons, why exactly is the spear something the survival hunter would seek out?

Did they misspeak or is survival becoming a melee spec, like it should have been since vanilla?

Feel free to speculate, I know I will until this weekend when they have the question and answer phase and I can ask, why the hell does a hunter need a spear?

Edit:  It was a spear, not a staff.  Still, same question applies.

44 comments:

  1. Anon, Grumpy's former Guild Leader:

    Heh, I noticed it also. Would be nice to have a new look at hunters that way. I will save any other comments for a more lengthy post by you on the expansion.

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    1. As you well know there will be a few speculation posts coming in the next few weeks. Let the fun begin.

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    2. Anon, Grumpy's former Guild Leader:

      It sounds nice, WoW: Legion, but will it live up to the first presentation? And so, my very first impression having watched up to the Demon Hunter as a hero class statement is as follows.

      Not so sure about the very concept of the Class Order Halls. The existence of non-aligned orders is nothing new of course, but to have the players supposedly in charge? Eh, I want to be a hero, not a commander. This is World of Warcraft, not Warcraft IV. More importantly, I really dislike the idea that the Alliance and Horde leaders can not seem to control their factions. They did not come out and say that of course, but it sure is implied by having the class orders being how the cooperation between factions occurs.

      My computer lost the connection during the presentation of the Demon Hunter class, which they mentioned as a hero class and then the connection went poof, so how that plays out I have no idea. I did like the character models they showed and the fact that Demon Hunters are to be a hero class. Beyond that, I have no clue.

      Artifacts for everyone: Yay? I like the idea in principal as it will give us yet another way forward in customization. It also sounded like it may be the reason dungeons will stay relevant to a greater degree which would be nice. Artifact power can be earned evidently in a great variety of ways and dungeons are part of that deal, hence more re-playability.

      The "continent" of the Broken Isles sounds a bit silly to be honest, unless land has arisen from the sea due to the Cataclysm and from the description I watched that is not the case really. More like, "hey guys, I found some more land on Azeroth." Uhuh, okay, sure, it was there all the time and we just never once noticed it. That is hard to buy. On the other hand, the artwork seems absolutely gorgeous, possibly the best ever done in an expansion. Also the terrain they showed was no where near as cluttered as Draenor, and thank all the gods of Azeroth for that.

      All in all, the presentation was good and the subject matter of the next expansion as both Grumpy and I have thought for a long time is the Burning Legion. Now if they can carry through on the premise presented today, maybe, just maybe the World of Warcraft can be turned around. Here though is the kicker, the one thing they haven't done yet, is to carry through on the promise. So I will still wait to see how this plays out, how long till beta, how long to launch and is it menu driven or play driven. In other words, are they serious this time or not? If not, then I will probably be gone with never seeing the legion. On the other hand, this could be the expansion that keeps me playing till level 250 and Sargeras' last stand.

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    3. The Broken Isles have always been there and are an established part of the lore, Blizz has just never let us set foot there.

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    4. @Anon

      I sure hope it does NOT live up to its first impression because for me my first impression was "time to cancel my sub". With the expansion of the fangs of the first nightsaber which I absolutely must have there was nothing they said that even remotely caused me to smile. But that one thing, hell yeah, ear to ear smile.

      Demon hunter plays like a rogue but uses a more hunter type of resource generation and no combo points. It makes no sense as a new class and it should not have been added.

      As ollie said, the broken isles have been around for as long as I can recall. It is not something they pulled out of the butts. Just feels that way. I never thought of them as a large area but a very small sting of islands. So that part is a little far fetched it being big enough for an entire expansion.

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    5. Anon, Grumpy's former Guild Leader:

      Oh but in all the previous visits to the Broken Isles and the Tomb of Sargeras, the land mass was relatively tiny. For them to call it a continent now is mind boggling. Rather much I expect it will be much larger than I would expect from the name alone but also a lot of the expansion may well be occurring outside of those lands.

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    6. That is what I recall it as too. A tiny selection of islands. Not sure how it got so big. But I guess they could say that is from deathwing. When he did his thing and disrupted stuff, it caused it to rise from the depths some.

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    7. You have to remember that EVERYTHING looked small in Warcraft 3. It was an RTS, and everything was set to scale, both for technical limitations and to accommodate all the units/action on screen. Look at the Night Elf structures, for instance. All the buildings were only two or three times bigger than the average sentinel. Besides that, I'd be very disappointed if the Tomb of Sargeras was located on Gilligans Island.

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    8. I had always thought that the tomb was in the swamp or sorrows. Maybe I am thinking something else.

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    9. Nope. The whole reason Guldan raised the broken isles from the bottom of the ocean in the first place was to get to the Tomb. Of course, he wound up dying anyway but...yeah. That was his reasoning.

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  2. I thought he was referring to the spear. Which I could see that as a ranged weapon. But how would you retrieve it? So that would make it a hand weapon, which gets back to calling it a staff, which makes them melee class. Which is fine with me. I really feel Survival should be PVP class not PVE.

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    1. You are correct, I will change the post. Either way, it is still a melee weapon and thus still the same question fits.

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  3. That was certainly odd. But not the only odd thing.

    No mention of class changes, abilities or talents. We know there are problems with all of the above as they currently exist.

    Also no mention of professions... where is that going? I hope it isn't something they decide to address 1 week before beta ends.

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    1. There is a lot they did not mention and I am going to chalk that up to having a limit time. Maybe if there are not major class changes and no major professions changes they left it unsaid and will wait until blizzcon to go into depth about it.

      I want to know if flying will be there at the start, if they are ditching the dependance on RNG for gearing, if valor is making a comeback, if they plan to fix flex to be less punishing on small groups, etc. So much to know, so little said, but understandable in the small frame they had to work with.

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  4. *snif* I believe my hunter heart will be broken if SV does in fact become a melee spec. For years, I have tried to play various melee specs and completely failed on every one. I just don't like them. And on the flip side, I am passionate about SV, and I only gave it up a few weeks ago when it became obvious even to me that it was no longer a viable spec. Still, I intended to go back to it as soon as Blizz fixed it up a bit, because well of course they would not leave it the way it is, right?

    But I think the handwriting is on the wall -- making it a melee spec is the simplest explanation for the spear. I can hope it will in fact be a ranged weapon, but it does not seem likely.

    *snif*

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    1. I will be furious if survival is made a melee spec and I have never really been a survival fan as I said in a post earlier today.

      Noticed how I had a post about survival hours before this happened. Perhaps I knew something others did not. ;)

      I will however be extremely happy if survival becomes a tank spec. There is a difference between being a melee and being a tank. I love tanking, I hate being melee.

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    2. I hadn't thought about it possibly being a tanking spec. I think that would be very interesting, and is something I could really enjoy, especially if your pet was an integral part to tanking. Guess we will have to wait and see, hopefully in the Q&A sessions in a couple days.

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    3. Oh the questions I would have for them... too many.

      I would embrace a tanking survival spec. Not a melee one.

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    4. A tanking Hunter - at last you can leave Growl on your pet and not get shouted at :-D

      There's no reason why having a Spear automatically makes the class melee: look at Warriors who throw their axe or hammer and it magically comes back. Or auto-shot: just how many arrows are there in your quiver??

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    5. I used to keep thousands of arrows on me. But that is beside the point.

      I could see a spear being a ranged weapon, but you would need to throw it, run up and get it, run back, throw it again, and on and on. Unless it is a "magical" speak that only throws an image of itself, which is entirely possible.

      But BM has a gun, MM has a bow, shouldn't that mean SV would have the cross bow?

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  5. Anon, Grumpy's former Guild Leader:

    Considering the nature of heroic throw for a fury warrior, I can easily see Survival becoming a ranged spec that can also melee. I would not think it unheard of for Survival to be rebuilt that way around the artifact level spear.

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    1. If they are moving survival into no mans land, namely melee, it better be a tank spec.

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  6. Anon, Grumpy's former Guild Leader:

    Hmm, I was thinking more along the lines of melee that starts off being a ranged thrown weapon class and adds melee capability for when in close combat. In other words, the class would not be a tank nor a true melee dps spec, but rather would be a ranged most often in a group but capable of close in combat when needed, either in a group or solo.

    Would be interested in seeing how a survivalist would function as a tank though. That might well be an interesting thing. Of course, I also always thought it a shame Shaman melee was not a viable tank spec either.

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    1. You mean like hunters were originally. When close they used a melee weapon and melee abilities and when at range they used a ranged weapon with ranged abilities.

      If they abandoned that idea before because they did not like it I do not see them going back to it again, but who knows. I think if they make a switch it will be a pure switch to melee, not an melee ranged hybrid.

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  7. I agree, looks like SV will be some sort of melee spec. I guess they could throw spears, but with how they have basically abandoned the spec in WoD, it seems like a more fundamental change is in the works. I'd personally prefer it to be dps because I don't want to have to tank, but it wouldn't be terrible if they did make tank hunters. Either way, between a change to SV and the addition of demon hunters, there will be more melee/tank options available.
    Too early to make any meaningful insight to the xpac, but the new honor system is interesting. And I love that they didn't feel forced into 3 specs for the demon hunter. They could probably only have 2 specs for a few classes and balancing would be easier.

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    1. I was thinking maybe that is why they nerfed it so hard. So no one would play it and they would have less backlash when they change it as no one was playing it.

      I would want a tank option for a faster queue on my main. As much as I hate tanking randoms, I would do so on my main because, well, I would feel I have to get things done on my main.

      I do like that they are only doing 2 specs, nice to see. But I do not see it as we needed a new class to begin with, even more so one that could have been added as a forth spec for another class. (already have a post written about that to be posted later)

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  8. I really hope SV doesn't change into a melee spec. I chose a ranged class because I hate melee, a hunter because they don't have paper armor, and finally SV because of overall feel and rotation reasons ( Marks rotation feels awkward and BM feels like my pet does all the work and not my character). Despite being nerfed into the ground I stuck with a SV hunter because it is the only class spec I love. If they do this, it may ruin the whole game for me.

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    1. I know what you mean. They redesign specs all the time but never have they changed a spec completely. We can only hope he throws the spear from ranged.

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    2. Agreed. I hate melee too. If they go through with this, I just lost a spec since I won't be forced into melee.

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    3. Agreed. They basically just made hunters a two spec class for many people. Most people that rolled hunters wanted to be ranged. I am sure some will try it, but I am sure the resistance would be more than the acceptance.

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  9. Doubt it, too many melee already. Every new introduced class is melee. Maybe just make spears hunter weapons too so they overlap a bit with other classes.

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    1. I agree, there are too many melee. In truth adding the demon hunter as a melee / tank hero class is stupid. We already have one of those. It should have been a ranged / healer hero class. Not sure why blizzard keeps adding more melee.

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    2. But you were right it seems! Confirmed on interview.

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    3. ~insert sad face here~

      Being right has never felt so wrong.

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  10. This isn't relevant to the SV question, but I thought you might appreciate this, if you haven't seen it already:
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLyKEkCVEAAnO9d.jpg

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    1. ahh, too bad. it was an old classic painting to represent each xpac, except WoD was a stick figure drawing of an orc with a note on it that said "will finish later if we have the resources".

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  11. SV as melee...hmmm, not sure I like that but at least it brings a little differentiation between specs, something hunters have been requesting for a long time.

    I'm not sure how it would work as a tanking spec, would probably need a complete overhaul compared to something like Enh Shaman which could easily be made into a tank spec.

    You could take it further though to bring more variety to all the pure dps classes:

    Rogue tanks - They had a quick look at this with the Druid talent in MoP (can't remember what it was called) and it was fun but very rarely useful

    Warlock tanks - Been there before, this could be the future of Demo now they have made sure nobody is playing it.

    Mage... Healer? The new Fire Spec... Cauterize all the things!

    All pure fantasy but it's fun to speculate :-)

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    1. I would hope it would be a tank spec. Sure hunters have been asking for something, but being melee was never one of things they asked for. Although a tanking hunter has some appeal to it.

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    2. Yeah, a completely different role would be best but it would mean rebuilding the spec form scratch.

      Look at the Enh Shaman and all the abilities and systems are already in place for it to become a tank, they would just need tweaking for the role.

      SV could step into that space as mail-wearing melee.

      You know far more about hunters than I do though, would love to read a post from you on how to turn SV into a tank.

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    3. I would not be adverse to making enhancement shaman a tank either, it used to have the tools. They removed them, but they were there. I wonder why they let it go.

      So either hunter or shaman playing the mail tank role would be acceptable. But hunters as melee are not.

      I guess I could make up a post on how I would change survival into a tank spec. Could have a little fun with it. Good idea, I think I will do it, thanks.

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  12. Hate to burst some of your bubbles, but Blizzard confirmed during an interview with Icy Veins that Survival is indeed becoming a melee spec! Also, Demonology is being reworked to NOT include Metamorphosis, which should have been obvious but now it's in writing.

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    1. Yeah, that is all old news now.

      Sadly both are a mistake. Hunters are a ranged class and should stay a ranged class. And Demo should have become the demon hunter spec, there was no need to make a new class.

      But given the option of two choices 99 times out of 100 blizzard seems to make the wrong one.

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