Wednesday, August 19, 2015

I'm Tired of Being Let Down

It is my own fault, I'll admit that.  I saw an 8 hour downtime scheduled for yesterday and figured maybe we would be getting flying.  I figured wrong.

It made me happy thinking flying was coming because it would allow me to do the things I waned to do but I didn't want to run around and do now because it would take so much more time to do so, like get all the pet battles on T2 done daily and finish off the pristine artifact digs.  Stuff like that is something I was looking forward to doing when flying came.  Stuff I wanted to do, but not stuff that was worth fighting my way through mobs every day to do.

There is a huge difference between fun and annoying and flying is the key.  Doing that stuff and fighting your way back and forth to everything is annoying, flying around and hitting the pet battles and dig sites only is fun.  At least for me and I was really looking forward to doing just that yesterday but I was let down.

I made a fun, and hopefully humorous, post yesterday to welcome flight and when I saw that there were no posts anywhere saying flight was added as the day went on I was saddened with the realization I was wrong, flying was not being added, we had a 8 hour downtime for nothing.  I felt let down once again by blizzard because something that we should have had months ago, check that, at launch of the expansion, was still not added to the game.

I did not even log on last night, reset day or not, I did not care.  For all I know they could have added flying and no one made any posts about it.  I never logged on to even check for myself.  But I find it unlikely that flight would be added and no one said anything, so I am glad I did not log in last night.  If I did, I would have just felt let down.

From back in beta when we wrote post after post about there being no content at level 100 and blizzard still released the game with nothing to do, we were let down.

When we filed bug reports on beta that the garrisons kept crashing, with so many fewer people, but they assured us it would be fine when it went live, because apparently if it crashes with 100,000 people doing it than it will surely be fine when 10,000,000 try right?  And we were let down.

For all the people that excitedly looked forward to bladespire and karabor after it was announced they would be our main cities, even if I happen to agree with their removal as we spend all our time in our garrisons anyway, and ended up seeing them removed.  They were let down.

The scaling of raids were so dreadful, and people mentioned it over and over.  10 man normal felt  closer to the hardest heroic boss than it did a normal fight when you compared it to the exact same fight with 30 people on normal.  But what did they do, nothing, or tiny bits that are still not enough and to late after it was released.  And we were let down.

The people who looked forward to ashran and had to wait for 2 or 4 or 6 or more hours in queue to get into one.  They were let down.

They released a content patch that was almost completely content free with 6.1 and expected us to accept that there was a lot of new content added to the game, when in truth everything in 6.1 was either a fix, something that should be been included at launch or something that should have been held back so it could piggy back on a real content release.  And we were let down.

There is the customer service, that I admit is stellar at times, that seems to be getting worse over all.  Even more so when I put in a ticket about a problem and the response I received said "that sounds like a problem, you should out in a ticket" as the reply to my ticket.  And I felt let down.

There are the voices that speak for the game telling us we are getting flight, then we are not, then we will see, then it will come in 6.1, then we will see, then we are not getting flight all, then we are getting it in 6.2.1, then 6.2.1 passes by and 6.2.2 is on PTR and it is still not here.  Back and forth and back and forth they lead us with never really telling us anything.  With these mixed messages and false or misleading statements made to the public most people have lost all trust in anything they tell us.  And we were let down.

I could go on and on, but the bottom line is that this expansion has just been filled with one let down after another.

I am tired of being let down, I am tired of feeling as if blizzard does not care any more, I am tired of being lied to or mislead over and over.

I don't know why it is that I am still stupid enough to believe things will get better but I do, or I hope.  I don't know about anyone else, but I can not wait to turn the page on this expansion and be done with it, because to me all this expansion will ever be remembered as is one giant let down.  Legion can not come soon enough if you ask me.  Lets hope that isn't an even bigger let down because I am really tired of being let down.


  1. I found the long downtime odd as well and hoped they might release the patch but nothing else was indicating they would. Not sure why the downtime was longer than usual.

    1. Nothing else was indicating it, true, but the flight patch is long over due as is, and with no other actual reason to be down for 8 hours it seemed logical to jump to the conclusion that it would be to add the flight patch.

      Is it sad that the best patch of the entire expansion is going to be one that adds something we should have had in the game since launch?

    2. Apparently some of their other products got big updates.

    3. Which should have absolutely zero impact on warcraft. And if it does, they really need to get their act in order. Updating another game should not cause warcraft to be down. That is just stupid.

    4. @Grumpy: WoW was down for about 3 hours on Tuesday. But, US realms were hit with DDOS attacks.

    5. The 8 hour down time in the US was a scheduled downtime. It had nothing to do with the DDOS that happened later in the day.

    6. @Grumpy: True. I was just saying that WoW servers were down for a far shorter time than the 8 hours announced. I was at working and messaging my buddy who's at home. He's playing after just 3 hours of downtime.

      On the DDoS, I was wondering if it had something to do with them announcing the Sept 1 date.

    7. I was not sure exactly how long they stayed down being I was working the whole time. All I remembered was the announcement.

      But it makes sense now why the EU announcement said 3 hours, because that is how long it took them to do whatever it was they did in the US.

  2. 6.2.2 has only been on PTR for a week so I'm not surprised it hasn't gone live. I would also assume that they'll push the patch out to our client PCs before it goes live on the servers, so we'll know in advance when it's coming.

    My gut feeling is it'll come at the end of August. They can just about get away with the "weeks not months" line without it being an outright lie. Or they'll bolt something else into the PTR, call it 6.2.3 and the wait will continue. Who knows?

    I don't see why Blizzard's culture will change miraculously for Legion content. They're not like this because of WoD: WoD is like this because of Blizzard's culture. Don't expect different results when actions haven't changed.

    For the record, I'm pretty happy with WoD in 6.2, there's a lot for me to like and do. I don't consume content like you do. But it makes me feel like I'll wait for Legion 7.2 to come out before I purchase it, because then it'll be in a state where it's worth playing, where the grind gives acceptable rewards due to catchup mechanisms.

    I absolutely will not subject myself to another 6.0 or 6.1. That was not fun.

    1. But 6.2.1 could have been released with flight. 6.2.2. just seems to be adding data for holiday events and more timewalker stuff. They do not need to hold back 6.2.1 for 6.2.2. There is no reason to.

      The "weeks not months" line is already past the lie territory. Once it passed 1 month it was a lie because after 3 weeks you start calling things by months, it is no longer weeks.

      If blizzard culture changed so much from MoP to warlords, we can hope it changes just as much from warlords to legion. It can happen. Not saying it will, not saying I have faith it will happen, but it could.

      They keep talking about lessons they learned. I really do hope that is a truthful statement and not just the standard corporate spin. Because if they did learn lessons from what they did wrong in warlords, and they did a hell of a lot wrong with it, than next expansion has the potential to be great.

    2. The line I keep seeing trotted out on forums is that it's this Mercenary mode to "fix" PvP that is causing delays. I haven't seen anything official to back it up (it might be there but I haven't seen it).

      As to why Blizz sought fit to combine a flying patch with a PvP patch....?

    3. I saw the same thing but as PvP and flying, in this situation, have absolutely nothing to do with each other, I see not reason why they can not release flying and keep working on the mercenary feature for a later patch.

      Not really sure I understand their compulsion to have to have everything done at once instead of just releasing things as they are finished.

      I could see if there were another major patch coming and they decided to include flying, mercenary mode, and other things in a major patch, but if it is all just small stuff, release it when it is ready.

      Bottom line, I do not agree with blizzard release policy. I find it more hurtful tot he game than helpful to it.

    4. I believe the compulsion to release them as they do is pretty front and center at those quarterly reports. They basically always say something to the effect of, "And we released one of the biggest patch updates in all of wow, with 35 pieces of content" or some other metric to show off how big the load was (cough) I mean content patch.

      I think its definitely a result of internal structural pressures to Blizzard. The devs get recognition for "larger" patches which address numerically high number of things (be it adding, fixing etc). However, It may be smaller fixes, hot patches, etc get lost in the shuffle of recognition or credit.

      Sure, you could restructure the reports and reporting by summing contributions over the same amount of time, but that's restructuring. Unless someone well respected at the top recognizes a problem, concludes the cost/effort of restructuring is worth it, and follows through to make sure everyone's on board and gets it done....Well. We now know why most companies don't change very much unless there is catastrophe. While I feel like WoD is just that catastrophe, I think the success of the other games and earnings on those have muted or dulled the edge of how bad WoD really was received. Blizzard could survival if wow died tomorrow, and no they don't want it, but losing wow is no longer an existential threat. So I don't think we will see major change in methodology at Blizzard. My last hope, besides Obi Wan, is that there are in fact two design teams, and the heavy hitting team is coming back up to the plate.

    5. If it would be flying only there's a chance people would call it the smallest patch ever. I half expect it to become 6.3 ha... probably not. Maybe it's some internal patch development thing...

    6. "I don't see why Blizzard's culture will change miraculously for Legion content. They're not like this because of WoD: WoD is like this because of Blizzard's culture. Don't expect different results when actions haven't changed."

      Sadly, yes.

      "I believe the compulsion to release them as they do is pretty front and center at those quarterly reports. They basically always say something to the effect of, "And we released one of the biggest patch updates in all of wow, with 35 pieces of content" or some other metric to show off how big the load was (cough) I mean content patch.

      I think its definitely a result of internal structural pressures to Blizzard. The devs get recognition for "larger" patches which address numerically high number of things (be it adding, fixing etc). However, It may be smaller fixes, hot patches, etc get lost in the shuffle of recognition or credit."

      Hmm, there may be something to this or at least a version of this. It ties in with the first point quoted here nicely. Or not "nicely" from a gamer's POV.

    7. @Thuggs

      You are probably right with them holding back to make for bigger announcements for their quarterly report.

      However they have to know that holding back something that would be good for the game could, and has, cause people to quit, which means not matter what they say that their quarterly report about this "awesome new content patch" will mean nothing if the sub numbers keep going down.

      They need to work a balancing act where they keep their customers happy and their stock holders happy. In a way, keeping their customers happy should be priority as the more customers they have the more money they make and the happier their stock holders would be.

      Lets just pretend last quarterly report they could have said, "we have the same subs as we had last quarter showing great customer retention" and compare it to what they did say "we lost 1.5M subscribers but we just released a lot of new content".

      I don't know about you but if I knew nothing about the game I think I would be happier seeing 1.5M more subs even if they did not mention any new content at all.

      Not saying that flying would have stopped the bleeding, no one can say that with any degree of certainty, but one this is for sure, it could not have hurt as we know for a fact at least a small portion of those 1.5M that quit did so because of the flying issue.

      They need to stop treating us, the players, as the enemy.

      I am too holding hope that the wrath and mists team is doing legion. If that still holds true, then we might be in for something better than what we have now.

    8. @James

      Classic double edged sword here. If they do not release it people get upset, if they do they might all it the smaller patch ever.

      However, being it would be an x.x.1 and not an actual patch, no one can call it the smallest patch ever. Most x.x.1 patches usually have nothing we even notice in it other than updating holiday events and such at most. That would make a .1 flying patch the largest, not smallest.

    9. @To Bee

      You would think that maybe they would start thinking that the more subs they have the more people they can sell "store mounts" to. So even if big patches look good, even if they are still making cash, wouldn't they make more cash if they had more subs?

      One day blizzard will realize that sub numbers do matter, a lot more than they are saying right now when they just quote bottom lines and big patches.

    10. @Grumpy

      "So even if big patches look good, even if they are still making cash, wouldn't they make more cash if they had more subs?"

      Yes, to independent gamers who radically adapt their play, routines, procedures, this seems like self evident long term business sense. The point is, that structurally, there is internal culture that either rewards the current model or punishes deviation from that model. I think generally, Blizzard, is progressive in its work culture. At some point in the past, probably during the first few years of development, organizing into large patches made sense for many reasons (download times, preparation, marketing). This cultural rule was established.

      I had hoped it would change when they talked boldly about the coding language change and the battlenet app allowing dynamic small updates as needed. I believed they said we now have the technology to allow us to be more adaptive and responsive to the game's needs. However, this stated desire has not translated into major change because the culture has set in around the status quo.

      I think there are many people in Blizzard who recognize this, speak to it as much as possible, and when the communication, updates, patches don't change, the community grows frustrated. But expecting this pattern to change, I do not believe it to be realistic.

    11. I had thought that since they changed the way the loader worked they would be giving us a lot more smaller patches and we would get fixes and .1s a lot more often. Instead it has been the exact opposite.

      I would say the pattern has to change. They can not continue on as they have been even if it is their current culture. Someone in charge sooner or later will have to realize that this culture is hurting the game and not helping it. That is when change will happen. But management seems to stuck in their ways to realize that it is their ways that will, in time, hurt that bottom line they keep trying to convince everyone is perfectly fine.

      It all goes back to something I said a very long time ago. It comes down to this being a management issue. They lack vision and they lack the management skills to right the ship. They need a shake up at the top. That is the only thing that can right the ship.

    12. I would agree that the pattern has to change. I am just not confident it will. It is my earnest hope that part of the lessons learned was that they CAN go from 10 million subs to 5 million in 6 months. That a HUGE amount of the revenue stream that has paid for the development of the company beyond wow can disappear quickly and that shock is enough to waken them from their atrophy.

      The way they describe the earnings, how they place wow in those earnings, I am concerned that they are emphasizing the money being gained from the other games so much, that they run the risk of believing their own spin.

      I see all the passion on HoTS, Hearthstone, and Overwatch right now. There's nominal work on other titles, but all the passion, ingenuity, and inspiration is being directed down those avenues.

      I believe mgmt has transitioned from the game and the entire wow team has specific marching orders, "Do the best you can with this budget...I'll be in HoTS development room if you need me."

    13. @Grumsta

      I hate to say it, but my current plans for the next expansion, assuming I'm here, is to wait. I've always had the expansion when it landed, some collectors editions too, and at this point I'm just not willing to pay for that. I'll be behind on a lot of things, but the cost (financial and stress) are just not worth being part of the open.

    14. @Thuggs

      Honestly this could be the make or break point for the future. The people in charge always believed they could get away with anything and having now lost nearly half their subs in 6 months they know that is not true. If they learn from this it could be good for us, if they don't, it could be what kills the game. There is nothing wrong with making mistakes, we all do, it is part of life, but the important thing is if we learn from it.

      From what I gathered, reading a post someone linked me a while back, not from a gamer but an investor, is that warcraft costs a ton to produce. Even if it makes money it costs a lot to make that money. Those other games are working with a 10th of the staff, or less, and making just as much, if not more than wow. That means their profit margin is better so it is worth it to invest in them instead of wow.

      Made up numbers here, this are fake of course.

      Lets say it costs 10M to make a wow expansion and an additional 2M per month to keep it running and during the life of a 2 year expansion and they make 60 million so that would mean it cost them 58M to make 60M. So while a 2M profit sounds nice it is not so much considering the money invested.

      But look at something like hearthstone. It might cost them 1M per month to run and update it it but it makes 1.5M per month profit, so while it does not look as if it makes as much as wow it is actually way more profitable.

      Like I said, I made those numbers up, but the guy writing the report said that is why wow no longer matters to blizzard. Sure it can make money, but they would be better off putting that massive staff that have on other projects and make 20 different hearthstones than to keep wow running.

      So, with that all said, and made up of course, you are right if the guy writing the investment report is to be believed, and I do believe him, that is exactly what is going on right now. "Do the best you can with this budget...I'll be in HoTS development room if you need me."

      They want to keep warcraft alive but they do not look at it as a money maker any longer so they are not trying to make it better, they are just trying to keep it as long as they can with as little resources as they can.

    15. @Casually Odd

      Would it sound wrong to say I would still buy the collectors edition even if I was not currently playing when it came out? I would by it "just in case" I decided to come back because I would not want to miss out on the pet.

    16. @Grumpy

      Wrong? Not at all. I even understand it. I did think about the Collector's Edition for WoD but decided against it. Happy about that now and unless the Legion one is amazing, I think I will fore go the collector's edition. But I wouldn't fault anyone that wants to get it for the very reason you state.

    17. I like pets. I know even if I left I would want to come back some day and would hate to have think I missed an easy to get pet. And sure as hell I would not want to pay inflate secondary market prices later.

  3. Long time, no see!

    Glad to see the blog is still around. I was a long-time reader and commenter, don't know if you remember me, but that's not really important. I unsubbed several months into WoD, but went back to check what's up after news on Legion and thought I would visit my favorite WoW place. :-)

    Alright, long story short, I very thoroughly followed what they said about Legion and PVP since the announcement at Gamescom, as PVP is my bread and butter and is one of the two things I would ever return to WoW for (the other is the world, but right now it doesn't look like they are planning to do much new in that area), and since I saw PVP briefly discussed on this blog, I thought I'd share some thoughts.

    What they are planning for PVP is intriguing, but it is obvious that they haven't thought it through and it remains to be seen whether what they will do will be any good or not - might be good, but might be downright terrible.

    The key thing is gear. They say they are removing PVP gear and all gear will be PVE. Alright. They also say they are doing away with the ilvl cap in PVP (right now, PVE gear in PVP scales down to a fixed ilvl - which grows every week, but remains lower than the ilvl on PVP gear, so that PVP gear remains best). Instead of capping the ilvl, they will scale the difference between your ilvl and some base ilvl for the season so that it is not overly large. There will be no trinkets and, in general, no stuff with procs, and even no stats from gear won't be taken as they are - there will be a set template for each spec with some stat values, and the scaled ilvl difference will increase those stat values with some ratio (eg, 5 ilvl will result in a 1% increase, as they explained in an example). That's more or less it for the info that they have, everything else they have are promises.

    If we take the info that they shared and ignore the promises for the moment, PVE gear is going to be king. Mythic raid gear is going to be the best in PVP. This means that in order to be competitive, people will have to raid - and it doesn't even matter much whether the difference is 5% or 25%, that just shifts the rating at which PVE gear starts affecting things and the rating at which if you don't have PVE you are out. (And yes, 5% is plenty, even 1% of added perf brings big returns in rating-based systems.)

    If they go with the info that they shared, PVP is toast, it's the times of raid gear ruling arenas all over again, only this time it won't be a trinket from heroic Saurfang or Shadowmourne, but rather just anything with high ilvl.

    Now, their promise is that PVPers won't have to raid to get the best gear. But since they don't explain exactly how they are going to achieve that, it doesn't mean much. For one thing, if they plan to achieve that by making PVP drop mythic-level gear, then this is going to fail, guaranteed, there's no way to do it so it doesn't fail - if you make gaining mythic gear from PVP like 5 times more difficult than gaining it from mythic raids, PVP is going to be dominated by PVPers who buy / get mythic carries, and if you make it easier than that, than, in addition to that, raiders will sell their souls to buy PVP carries to get that gear, too. It just can't work.

    We might be heading for one more let down right there.

    Just saying.

    1. I'm afraid that has been my response to most of the announcements about Legion: "It is obvious that they haven't thought it through".
      They seem to have some grand ideas, but the details are more than a little foggy.

      And after the response to feedback during WoD beta - "we are aware that Arms/Survival has some issues, they will be addressed before launch" became "We're not bad at math, we don't want people playing those specs" or "tier and trinkets will fix it" - Blizzard has a long way to go to re-earn the trust of many jaded players

    2. @PvP Anon

      Good to see you again, long time no see. How is life away from wow treating you?

      I most definitely do remember you and when they made the PvP announcements I was wondering what you would have thought of them as you are my resident PvP expert.

      You seem to have read a lot into it the same as I did even with me looking at it from the same perspective of a PvEer.

      How I think they will fix the mythic problem is one of two ways.

      1) PvPers get weekly or daily quests that drop boxes with mythic PvE gear, permeability from rated battlegrounds as that seems to be the top level of PvP right now.

      Bad part of this is not PvEers will feel forced to do PvP. So they might not go this way.

      2) They will have the boxes PvPers get drop heroic level raid gear and anyone with mythic level raid gear would have it scaled down to heroic level in instanced content. Basically meaning that in PvP the highest gear is heroic raid level gear.

      This seems to be a solid idea if you ask me.

      The honor v3 system still has a lot of work to be done with it but from my perspective, as someone that mostly does only PvE, I believe it is a step in the right direction. I've always said PvP should be about skill, not gear, and this seems to be the largest step in that direction.

      At least now when I lose I will know it was not a gear issue, it was a skill issue, and it would encourage me to try to get better instead of discourage me because I was so far behind in gear that I give up.

    3. @Josef

      I think they are suffering from a case of once bitten twice shy. They announced, and then did not deliver, a lot of stuff for warlords and got called out for it again.

      That is why we are getting so little information. They do not want to make themselves look like idiots again, which you have to admit warlords really did a good job of making them look like idiots after the announcement and subsequent removal of nearly everything they announced.

      They are playing it safe and that is why legion looks really underwhelming. Because, for now at least, it is.

      You did hit the nail on the head however that blizzard has lost the trust of the community. A lot of it and it will be a long road back to getting that trust once again. I know I will never trust anything they say again myself.

    4. @TheGrumpyElf:

      1 would obviously not work, as you explain (raiders will have to PVP), and 2 would work, but that's the same thing we have now - the ilvl cap - and they seem to want to change that. The reason they want to change that is so that players have an incentive to get more and more gear and have it help in PVP as well as in PVE.

      If they do the ilvl cap - and make the gear with that ilvl obtainable in PVP with roughly the same difficulty as conquest gear now, it's all good, it works. But it is exactly the issue that they seem to do this little revolution in order to change things in such a way that players have reasons to farm gear basically through the entire season. Hopefully they will abandon this idea, if they have it.

    5. The incentive would be for world PvP maybe? But then we would be back to PvPers would have to raid if they want to feel at their peak.

      No matter how many blues have said "PvPers will not need to raid" I do not believe it. Although I like the idea of them combining the gear and all there is no way around it. Either PvPers have to raid or PvEers have to PvP. That is the bottom line.

      The real solution. Stop being such tight wads about gear and let every piece of gear be purchased with some sort of points, valor or conquest, whatever. Then PvPers get their points that way, PvPers get their points that way, and everyone can buy the gear they have worked for. Sure, now you piss off the mythic raiders because billy joe and bobby sue that only do LFR can get mythic gear, but really, who the hell cares. Just because some LFR players have mythic gear doesn't mean they can use it to its potential. They need to get off their gearing high horse where only certain people are allowed certain gear or they can never fix this.

  4. Thesis - Blizzard will continue to push out the flying patch as long as they can.

    a) I bet almost all devs have shifted away from WoD. Legion has to come out ASAP, and the other games have a higher priority as well
    b) Taking a look at the PTR forum there seem to be some serious issues with people being dropped from mounts
    c) citing technical difficulties is something players might understand and prefer over "death by flying" accidents. Therefore those players will keep subbed and wait.
    d) Another fear of Blizz: once flying is in, a number of people who like "no flying" will unsub. Remaining content will be used up even faster, then players will be really bored and unsub to wait for Legion.
    e) if the exodus continues WoW will become a ghost town. 2 more quarters like this and Blizz will be forced to take very drastic steps.

    From a technical perspective upgrading other games might very well be a good reason to shut WoW down for 8h. Blizz is running everything from datacenters. Some key components (load balancer, messaging subsystem, accounting...) are shared. It's not a good design, but shutting down all games for 8h is easier then fixing problems afterwards.

    Rauxis, chosen of CAT

    1. It will end up being exactly like I said it would when they reversed the decision.

      I said they will push it off as long as possible so we get it just before the next expansion comes out, which is probably when they would have added it anyway to begin with even if people did not complain.

      It is really starting to look that way.

      a) I agree, if legion came out next month it would be perfect, so being that will not happen as soon as possible is a huge thing.

      b) That is what they were trying to fix. Either I am the unluckiest person alive or I think I have found nearly every place you can fall with the feather already. Heck, last week I found a new space in mists content where I feel. Thank goodness for being a hunter. But that now makes 3 spaces like that in mists that still drop me that I know exactly where they are. It is not uncommon really. People who fly a lot find them, trust me.

      c) I think death by flying would go over better. Technical difficulties mean nothing to people that do not know what that means.

      d) No one will unsub because there is no flying. And if someone does, it will be that 1 in a million person. The difference is people that wanted flying could not fly without it, but people that want to be on the ground still can once it is added. No one will unsub because flying is added, unless they think they are making a point, which they are not because their ground mounts still would work just fine.

      e) I agree. 2 more quarters like this and blizzard will be looking up at FF14, where it seems a great many people are heading. Funny enough, they just added flying. How funny is that? Blizzard should take notes from them.

      From a technical perspective of a company that does not think ahead it is acceptable. For blizzard, it should not be. The only acceptable reason is if is being upgraded. But they should be smart enough by now after all these years that if they are updating heroes or hearthstone or whatever it should not affect warcraft. That would just mean they need new tech people. A lesser company that would be an acceptable excuse, not a billion dollar company.

  5. Like you, I had convinced myself that the 8 hr down time yesterday, combined with their "reminder" about Pathfinder requirements a couple days before, certainly meant the patch was going live.

    I am beyond furious at them for continuing to string us along on this, in the exact same way they strung us along for over a year on it. Hazzikostas lied to us when he said flying would be a small patch, implemented in "weeks not months" -- clear implication being it would be a high-priority single-purpose patch. He just plain lied, and he does not even have the good grace to apologize for it.

    Like other commenters, I am not optimistic about the let-down syndrome getting any better in Legion. Because I don't think their corporate culture has changed, not when their response to the outrage of prevaricating for a year on flying is to spin a different prevarication.

    I am still not ready to give up on the game, but I did start my 14-day trial on FFXIV last night, played for about 4 hrs, found it very fun, and I am certain it will be my "Plan B" going forward.

    1. Oh, maybe we can hook up on FF14. lol Hope you enjoy. I know I really did.

      I am not confident about the let down syndrome ending either, I do hope for it to end however. Gaming, more so gaming like this, is like a relationship in real life.

      Ever had a girlfriend/boyfriend where you knew it was over but you hung on a little longer than you really should have in hopes things will get better?

      That is the place I think a great deal of players are in right now. They are trying to hold on to a relationship they know is over. Sure, sometimes it can bounce back, but most times, it is just a matter of time before you know you are better off saying goodbye.

    2. LMAO! That comparison is spot on. That is exactly where I am with the game. I am mainly hanging on because I remember all the good times, and when some little good thing happens I make myself believe that means we will go back to the way things were when we were good together. But it is just putting off the inevitable.

      Any particular server you recommend for FF14?

    3. I've always considered warcraft like a relationship, so it seemed like a good comparison to me, yes.

      I am on courel (Spelling?). Can't say if it is good or bad end game wise, but the last time I played with any regularity was a couple of months before the expansion and it was always packed, if that means anything. I think of it as a good sign, if it was always packed at all hours before an expansion it has to be more active now right?

      One thing I do hate about FF14 is all the gold spammers. Trust me, they get frustrating fast.

    4. @Grumpy

      The relationship analogy is sadly accurate. Part of me is not ready to be done and probably never will be. But another part of me is really eyeing that door.

      I may have to give FFXIV a try...many people seem to be into it.

      I've been working on a post (on and off) trying to figure out how to recognize the end of my game. I half the trouble is acknowledging what the post means.

    5. @Casually Odd

      I think it is blizzards own fault they have so many people looking at the door. They have let people down a little too often lately and the trust from even the most trusting people is either running thin or already gone. It is a very sad situation.

      If you have ever played any final fantasy games making a connection to the MMO will be a hell of a lot easier of course. It is one of the things that kept me going really.

      None of us want to see it end, at least not when there is still some love involved. (Just like a relationship)

  6. Patch announced for Sept 1. Flying aside, the date makes sense since the patch includes timewalking changes, and the following weekend is the next Timewalking weekend.

    1. Oddly enough the addition of flight and having dungeons worth doing (for the currency for mounts) will make 6.2.2 the best patch of the entire expansion in my eyes.

      Now if they would only make the gear from timewalker dungeons even remotely decent both in drop form and currency purchased form, they would have a major winner on their hand.

    2. LoL, I'll probably be too busy in the dungeons (I'm a nostalgic Wrath baby) to do much flying that weekend ;) Especially since I'll be out of town for the holiday for more than half of the weekend.

    3. BTW, I can't help but find it ironic (you'll probably choose a different word) that Blizzard is bringing back "Justice Points" during WoD...for dungeons that are 3 expansions old!

    4. It actually fits perfectly. Maybe with this test they will realize they never should have removed to points for dungeons aspect from the game.

      Spamming dungeons for points / badges was the only thing that ever kept dungeons relevant past the first week or two of the expansion.

    5. Patch announced, and immediately Lore issues a warning that 1/9/15 isn't set in stone, it's a target date, still ironing out issues, etc.....

      "As you might have seen in the latest update to the 6.2.2 PTR Patch Notes, our current plan is to release Patch 6.2.2 on September 1.
      Please keep in mind that this release date is not set in stone, as we are continuing to iron out bugs with 6.2.2’s content, including some related to enabling flight in Draenor. That said, we are optimistic that we’ll be able to have everything ready by then, so we wanted to share the current plan. We know many players -- us included! -- are excited to take to the skies above Tanaan Jungle and the rest of the Draenor continent."

      So: don't hold your breath :-/

    6. Lore is just being overly cautious because he knows very well that blizzard keeps screwing things up this expansion and letting people down.

      Was he wrong to say that? Maybe. But he was just trying to protect them in case something bad happened and it did not get released because the last thing blizzard needs is more bad press this expansion.

    7. There's a much better post copied to Reddit which describes some of the big issues and potential gotchas pretty well.

      It's great to get this information, but it feels about 4 weeks too late coming to me.

      They're still not really learning yet are they?

    8. I feel bad for Lore, he is trying to do the right thing but as a CM he is bottom of the totem pole. That is why he made the PvP comment error the other day, he is not kept in the loop.

      He is trying to rebuild the trust that the rest of the team has thrown away and I respect that. I am glad he took the time to explain deeper.

    9. uh oh, People making sense for a patch to come out...hmmm, probably won't now - thanks guys. :)

      Me thinks some Gnome Angels will need to open a can of whoop-ass on Lore and his crew.


  7. That is a perfect analogy it's exactly how I feel about Blizzard now. What I wonder is do they know what that means?

    I uninstalled all Blizzard products when I unsubbed over flying and while I resubbed WoW I did not reinstall Heartstone or HoTs.

    I have stopped spending money on things like boosts, second and third accounts. They didn't just damage the relationship I had with WoW which is costing them a lot of money. I can't be the only one.

    1. I do not think they know what it means. And even worse, I do not think they care. It is sad, I know, but can't help how we feel.

      I stopped buying the mounts and services back in mists myself. Once they make me feel like supporting them more than 15 a month I will. I never had a problem spending money on a game I like. I just do not feel as if they deserve anything over the absolute minimum at the moment.

  8. Take a long step back and stop looking behind the curtain. Get out of the forums, egads. Stop looking at the twitter feeds.
    Let the game come to you and it will be a fresh perspective and the game can reside as it should.
    The day we all got access or created data-mining and mega-sites like Wowhead emerged, the game changed due to anticipation -- we screwed ourselves on that one.
    We know only a small portion of players glean bits and pieces (say, for example, where the hunter class hall will be -- a long time from now) -- those who do not go tramping about in those areas are very happy and playing a good game.

    1. I agree. If I did not read the forums, did not go to fan sites, did not write a blog, I would probably be enjoying the game itself a lot more. It is 100% true.

      However, for me, this is part of the fun of the game. If I did not delve deep into the news and posts and forums and write about it I probably would have left the game a long time ago. I enjoy talking to people that agree and that disagree with me. Much of this expansion I have had more fun writing about it than I have had playing it.

      Everyone has fun their own way. Some doing raids, others pet battle, some soloing and still others with PvP or something else. For the moment, this is the fun part of the game for me. It is odd that my enjoyment of the game happens outside of it? Yes. But that is not a bad thing is it?

    2. welcome to my world :D

      I only come here to irritate you, yee-haw, DUCK - Gnome Angels!

    3. That doesn't work well then, because everyone looks forward to the next visit from Roo's Angels.

    4. LOL, you're funny. :) I gotta go cook something.