Thursday, April 16, 2015

What is Up With the Legendary Ring Proc?

When they first data mined the legendary ring proc I read it and immediately wanted to make a post about it but I held my tongue.  I knew it had to be some horrible joke, or at least I hoped so.  As it turns out I was both right and wrong.  It was not a joke which made me wrong, but they did not intend to released what was data mined, which I was right about.  I knew, hoped really, that it would never get released like that.

Just for the fun of it, I want to complain about that removed proc before I complain about the proc it was changed into.  I enjoy picking on blizzards horrible ideas sometimes.

For those that do not know what the legendary proc was supposed to be based on the original data mined information I will gladly regale you and we can laugh how bad of an idea it was together. 

The proc would no longer be "your" proc.  It would become a raid wide proc that added up all people in the raid with the same type of ring and then randomly gave one of those people the proc, but a much bigger version of it.  For example, if you had 6 agility users in your raid with the agility ring that would mean someone would get a 60% increase to all damage they, and they alone, do for 12 seconds.  6 users of the agility ring at 10% each is how it worked out.

Every 12 seconds it would switch to another person wearing that same type of ring randomly.  So someone in the raid would always have a 60% boost to their damage done at all times for a length of 12 seconds.

In theory that is pretty awesome really.  Instead of a proc every minute or two it would be constantly there, so to speak, but who had it would be completely random.  For a guild group with all solid players in it, this would actually be pretty damn awesome if you ask me.

Now, I will ask you the question, what exact about that did I dislike?  Dislike enough to call it a horrible idea.

Main part that made this idea dreadful was the random element to it.  I hate anything random and would hate this even more.  I am sick and tired and fed up with random.  I do not want more random in the game.

Lets say with my luck, and we all know it is poor at best most of the time, I would never end up with the buff as it bounced around the other 5 agility users in my raid and left me with nothing.  No, hell no, no thank you, go screw yourself with a hot poker blizzard.  Stop adding more random crap into the game.

The add to that the fact that the ring would be mandatory, not like that is a big deal, it is not hard to get, but for someone that comes back to the game in 6 months maybe catching up will not be instant, and it will not be instant I am sure of that.  So lets say you come back to the game 6 months from now and you want to get into a pug.  Sorry, you do not have the ring so we can not invite you.

At least with the legendary cape the only person that was hurt by you not having it if you were late to the game getting it was you yourself.  Now, with a ring proc that benefits the entire raid, you not having the legendary ring hurts the entire raid, not just yourself.  No blizzard, bad blizzard, do I have to hit you on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.  You can not add stuff like that into the game.

Then there is the whole idea that it is "my" ring.  I want something from it.  I want a benefit of having it.  Sure I could very well get it randomly while in a group, but outside of that it is just another ring, nothing special about it.  If I get a legendary ring I want the "legendary" feeling all the time for myself.  I do not mind that if I have it it helps others, that is cool, but I should still always have some sort of proc for myself and not have to wait for luck to get it.  It is my ring after all, shouldn't I be guaranteed to benefit from it.

So, needless to say, when they announced that was not going to be the proc on the legendary ring I was very happy.  But I was still a little concerned.  Concerned because how the hell did someone actually come up with an insane idea that like and worse yet, how the hell did a horrible idea like that get so far that it actually made it into the game before they decided that was not the way they wanted to go.

It is really concerning because it shows that no one at blizzard has any clue what they are doing.  I am sure during the idea phase, the development phase, the coding phase, the implementation phase, there has to be more than a hand full of people it passed through and none of them even considered some of the issues a proc like that would raise?  That is why it worry's me.  No one at blizzard is looking out for the players.  No one at blizzard is taking into account the full picture and what some people, like myself, might view as an issue with a proc like this.  I am sure others had different issues than the few I mentioned too.

I am guessing wiser heads prevailed in the end, thank elune for that, but how did a horrible idea like that get so far into development before someone noticed it was a horrible idea?

So after they said they would not be using that dreadful idea for a legendary proc, I waited to see what the new announced proc would be.  Now we know what that one is.

It counts all the rings in the raid and make them work in unison as an on use ability. It works on a blanket number for everyone that does not go up with the more of that type of the same rings you have in a raid, better than random who gets it in my opinion. 

I do like the idea for my raid team, I do not like the idea for pugging and feel bad for people that are late to getting it, just coming back to the game, or switched characters and are now playing catch up.  I also feel bad for classes that the on use cooldown does not line up well with because they have absolutely zero control over when it is used, and that is the problem I see.

See, this ring, unlike the other that adds all rings together, is a blanket 25% damage increase for all ring users, thank elune no random on this one. But this one has one huge drawback which is as soon as someone in the raid uses the on use function of it, it puts everyone's ring on cooldown because they will all share a cooldown.  All players get the benefit, don't get me wrong, but once one person uses it, everyone is using it.  Like it or not.  I am going to side with not here.

The problem I see with this is that I want to use my on use trinkets when I need the on use.  My on use might not be the same as the other people in my raid.  Maybe I am waiting a few seconds for all my procs, maybe I am saving it because I know I will only get 3 on uses in the fight and I can time the three uses better for when I am on an important target.  Maybe I know I can only get one more use in and I am holding it to use it when stampede is off cooldown for maximum potential out of it.

Bottom line here is that it is "my" ring blizzard, I do not want someone else using it whenever the hell they feel like it.  I want to use my cooldowns, including my on use abilities, when I want to use them.

Lets not even talk about the trolls in LFR and pugs that hit time warp as they drop group, or on trash, or whenever they know people will lose the benefit of it just to be jerks.  Now they can use the ring and screw up the entire raids 25% bonus.

Once again, no blizzard, bad blizzard, stop letting other people control my character.

My Ring.
My On Use.

I do not want to let someone else dictate when I use it.

What is up with blizzard and these horrible legendary procs?  Have they completely run out of ideas?

Just turn the ring into a 2 minute cooldown that is per person and you have a winner of an idea blizzard.  Everyone can use it when they want to.  No one can troll with it.  We all win.  That would make a legendary legendary. 

Letting Billy Joe hit it on cooldown to pad his numbers like he normally does blowing all cooldowns on useless trash mobs because he thinks it makes him look cool should never have access to my on use abilities and I don't like that you are giving it to him blizzard.

Now get off your butt and fix this once again.  It is better than it was with the first data minded information, but it is still not a legendary ring.  Not as long as you let Billy Joe decide when it is used.

Bad blizzard, go sit in the corner, you need a time out.  Next time maybe you will think before you implement.  You stay in time out until you understand that.


  1. I honestly don't get why you are upset. The concept sounds interesting to me. It looks like a way to honor group efforts, and I'm curious to see how it'll work out. I might be entirely wrong there and it might go really bad, but I wouldn't want judge this right now. It's a wait and see situation to me.

    Let's be honest there - nhc pugs and LFR aren't really relevant. Apart from the fact that a big percentage of those people don't even have the ring in the first place, it will not be relevant for success. Yeah sure it is annoying if someone ruins the opening burst sequence by not popping hysteria or debuffing the raid right before, or, in this case, by using the ring right before the pull or so. But that content is easy enough to begin with and all you'll see is a few extra seconds in fight duration and a DPS loss.

    On top of it you seem to be missing the second part of the buff. Somehow the player who activated it (i think?) will get an AOE depending on how much damage the DDs dealt during the buff. The implication of this is pretty great. It might be ignored in pugs but in organised raiding, it probably will be part of a boss strategy. Maybe someone (the tank?) will use the ring 15 secs before an AoE burst phase. Maybe we will use it during an AoE phase with the intention to get a real big dmg burst spike right afterwards on the boss.

    In any case the strategist in me rejoices and I'm looking forward to coming up with fun ways to be using it.

    1. ok every player will do an aoe depending on their damage. but my point stands, it remains interesting.

    2. actually i'm wrong, the aoe will indeed come from the activating player according to a twitter response.

    3. I am upset because it is my ring that should give me a proc and if it has an on use it should be decided when I use it based on my needs because it is my ring.

      I do not believe something that is mine should be capable of being use whenever someone else wants to use it.

      How would a feral druid like if someone else activated his berserk whenever they wanted to and the druid had no control over it?

      How would a resto shaman like if someone else activated their healing totem whenever they wanted to and the shaman had no control over it?

      Get the idea?

      My on use.

      I do not want someone else activating it against my will.

    4. I wonder how classes like BeastMaster hunters which rely heavily on CDs/proc stacking will be able to manage a proc which pops-up completely randomly.

    5. Well, in organized raiding it will be popped when the raid leader calls for it, like time warp. It will make it easier to plan around. The only thing that will mess it up is when you get someone that just wants to pop it on cooldown which will happen a lot in pugs and LFR.

  2. When we think Legendary, we think of HUGE FINISHERS!! That's what people remember about wrestlers, it's what we remember about fight scenes in movies, it's what we remember in sports (let's think of Carlton Fisk's homerun in 1975, Kirk Gibson in 1988, and the immaculate catch steel in the most recent Super Bowl).

    The Legendary Ring should emulate those things. It shouldn't be a proc. It shouldn't be an on use item. It should be bigger than that. And because this is the last raid of the expansion (which means the last real opportunity to use the Legendary Ring), it should mesh with it somehow.

    So think of this, you are fighting the Raid Boss and when his/her/it's health gets to 25%, there should be a pause. Those with the rings should have spotlights (literally) shown on them and then maybe they go through some transformation (not too crazy here, something like the Druid's deal with the extra armor) with GLOWING WEAPONS to show how all the effort and waiting around to get the Legendary Ring to get to this point.

    And now the final part, extra damage and a 12 sec cooldown finisher button till the boss dies. This would be a huge upgrade for classes/specs that don't have an "execute" ability (Warrior Execute, MM/BM Hunter Kill Shot, etc) and those classes with one would have it replaced by this finishing ability.

    This would be the stuff of legends and everyone would want to be part of this Legendary Business. Just the announcement would have people drooling. Players want a memorable experience and this would definitely give it to them.

    1. During the pause, the boss could throw out some dialog to the effect of, "do you really think you can beat me?" "What is this?" "What are you doing? You'll ruin everything!" (last part was borrowed from the Blood Furnace of Burning Crusade, how appropriate).

    2. "YOU HAVE FACED MANY CHALLENGES. PITY THEY ARE ALL IN VAIN!" Right before you get that Legendary Ring ability stated above and commence to kicking him in the face!!! Just get all that frustration and anguish out from dealing with this expansion.

    3. That would be kind of cool, sometimes like when the boss is under 25% you transform and it increases your damage.

      I could easily see how this is capable of being abused, and I would be glad to abuse it. Target a mob under 25% for the damage boost and then AoE, so even if everything else is full health you are getting the under 25% boost to the damage.

      But over all I kind of like the idea of something more bad ass like that. Transforming you at a certain point.

  3. It is MY ring. Mine Mine Mine!
    My precious.

  4. shared cooldown, dps buff, sounds like Bloodlust or Heroism, or that magey buff (time warp)... Just now only for legendary ring wearers and now it gives the wearer the buff they could use for their class and not a shared "haste" buff.. Sounds pretty awesome.. and yes, necessary for dedicated raid groups.. The only hold up for people trying to catch-up would really be the things they have to solo, aka my nemesis the proving grounds (maybe this weekend if I have time).

    1. And you know, being the person that activates it get an additional 25% you know that DPS hogs will be spamming it on cooldown so "they" can get the extra 25% being the one that hit it.

      This means it will often get hit not when it is needed, but when it is off cooldown by the person that wants the buff from it so they can up their numbers.

  5. I tend to give Blizz the benefit of the doubt in most cases but this idea is just mind-boggling.

    My legendary ring has just been turned into a raid cooldown and my Raid Leader will decide when we use it (and probably be the one to actually 'use' it)

    As a raid cooldown, encounters will be designed around it therefore making it pretty much irrelevant.

    I even preferred the RNG-heavy older design!
    Our raid group would have just had a bit of fun and a laugh at the crazy RNG but at least I would have felt the power of it at times.
    I just know the mage in our group would be the one to get it on the pull every time though haha

    Grumpy, with your luck, you would be getting it while on the hook flying over to the boat on Iron Maidens, or dropping through the floor on Blackhand (or insert 6.2 mechanic when you can't actually hit anything)
    You just know it would happen! :-)

    1. I would get it using the same rules for the explosive shot procs.

      Explosive shot will always proc when...

      You are on the hooks, when you are frozen in place, when you are falling through the floor, when you are out of range, when the boss is immune to damage, etc. Basically, you will always proc, 100% guaranteed, when you can't use it.

      I think the on use idea is find, but we should each be able to use our own when we want to.

  6. Essentialy grumpy, what I get of your post is : "this is why we can't have nice thing".

    I LOVED the first itteration of the ring proc for a few reasons :

    - It was something new and that alone make it really awesome
    -On average it was the same damage boost for the raid

    -and the best part : it was Blizzard saying a big "F**k you" to rankings cause it would have all been RNG and comp dependent.

    You may wonder why I like the last part, esspecially the RNG bit? Well it's easy, here is an example : my group killed Mythic maidens yesterday, but it would have died a week ago if people where not so obsessed with rank and DPS.

    I do understand some of the concerned, but I grow tired of people complaning that blizzard does nothing new, and then the same people complaining again when they try something new without even trying it out.

    So yes I definitely see how and why that procs had made it into the client. It was an awesome idea and I would love to see it come back in one way or another.

    1. I do agree with you that it was a F U to log and such, which is a nice side effect, but there are bad points with that as well as good.

      I like to see how people in similar gear do so I can learn from them. If I look at logs I can get details from that and try to get better. With some random boost it throws that off. They could "beat" me when they really did poorly, based on luck, I could "beat" them when they are better, purely based on luck.

      I am 100% against anything that is luck based and think that is lazy design from people who have no imagination and no desire to code anything that might be considered work.

      I do agree it is an awesome idea. But there is a huge difference between doing an idea for a fight, like it could be a mechanic of a boss fight, and doing it for something that I worked for.

      I worked for the ring, it is my ring, it is my proc. I am not going to leave my proc up to RNG and someone else getting it instead of me. My ring, my proc.

      The idea might be a solid idea. But my gear should give me a boost, not you. Simple as that. And it sure as hell should not be left up to RNG is I get the proc off my own ring or someone else does. No, seriously, no.

      I get you like the concept and so do I. That original idea was just a dreadfully poor implementation of it. Maybe we can see something like that in the future.

  7. On the surface it sounds pretty cool, BUT (that's a big but btw). WTH are they thinking? I can see in raids after the first wipe those without rings being kicked, if they were alowed in in the first place. And with all the problems Blizzzard has balanceing things, how the heck do you balance this? 10 people with rings faceroll, or 10 people with out rings can not complete it?
    Or does the raid scale depending on the number of rings being used? If so what is the point of having a ring? Please Blizz your sticking it up your own if you let this go live. Make the ring affect the person using it and that person only, it worked with the cloak. Some people had higher numbers then others but overall DPS did not depend on how many cloaks you had in a group so much.

    1. You mention something that is really at the heart of the issue.

      The raids will be designed to "need" the ring to complete them. It will be 10 people with the ring facerolling or 10 people without it banging their heads on the wall.

      The proc is too strong as a raid cooldown. Paired with time warp and all the cooldowns on the pull everyone will be seeing SoO numbers in the 200 - 300K range. We already see burst coming close to 200K and we are not even raiding mythic, this is just normal and heroic gear. Can someone say stat squish fail? But that is another story.

      At least with the cloak you could say, when you get that your numbers will increase. It was a blanket upgrade, not a raid cooldown.

  8. My core issue with this latest design is simple. It takes my ring and its ability and turns its core benefit over to the raid for management. First, I cannot control when it is activated, as the team lead will decide. Second, I will not be the one activating it. If you doubt this, think about it a few seconds. If the activating person has a large AOE burst at the end of its activation, you are going to want the dps that is surrounded by the most targets within that 20yd radius. Happy Birthday, melee, you get a free every 2 minute boost to your dps on top of the ring's boost.

    I do not think it is selfish or unreasonable for me to want to benefit from my ring, and for my ring to benefit me just as much as it benefits another person who has done the work to get it. With this design, it doesn't. Some say, the DPS chart race isn't important. As a hunter, I often sacrifice my dps to get the job done, Engineer duty on Garrosh, Belt duty on Siegecrafter, Siegemaker duty on Blackhand, Ball Catching duty on Koragh.... I sacrifice my dps all the time for the benefit of the team, to make sure the mechanics get done right. That's what a good raider does; whatever it takes to down the boss. But to, by design, say screw you melee is always going to have this advantage over you in numerical contributions? Not to mention MM's damage is going to be linked to distance from target, so doubly screw the MM.

    Its just a lot of feel bad moments that you don't get the 100% benefit from your own ring. You get 80% of its benefit (or some appropriate math proportion of the dmg)

    1. when the ring is being activated, you get a 25% buff which is entirely to your benefit. your part of the AoE will also be credited to you.

      and i can guarantee that most raids will want to use it where it is most useful, and probably for everyone. either on CD, or in crucial phases which help downing a boss.

      As for your dps sacrifices, honestly, there is not a single encounter apart from Imperator mythic where hunter tasks can lose you dps in the current content. Kiting a siegemaker or standing in orbs shouldn't have any effect on your DPS whatsoever. If there are range issues, you should discuss this with the tank then because that shouldn't happen.

    2. @Thuggs

      I said the same thing, in most groups the melee will be the person of choice to get this. The explosion on a ranged would mean nothing in most cases. So merry christmas melee.

      I do not mind my ring helping others in the raid and them getting some benefit from my ring, but as you said, I should get 100% of it and what I share should be less. Not I give 100% and get less.

      @ Ril

      Range issues sometimes happen for me but that is more a matter of me watching and learning where the tanks move so I can adjust with them as they do. Most of the time, not all but most, range issues are just a skill issue in learning the group you are with and how they move.

  9. We have all been talking about DPS and not having control over our own ring, but where do healers with rings fit in?? Or tanks??

    1. they each get separae CDs that somehow work together. so there will be 3 mechanics, depending on role.

    2. The healers share one and the tanks share one. So as Ril said, there are three separate cooldowns.

      The healers and the tanks are in the same position really. What if the healers wanted to rotate theirs for different healing moments? They can not. Or tanks for cooldowns when they need it, they can not. Bad idea for all classes and specs over all as I see it.

  10. blood DK troxism who maintains the megathread over at the mmo-champion forums mostly agrees with Grumpy.

    Blood DK Warlords of Draenor Patch 6.1 Guide (Long but has TLDR Version): comment #783

    begin quote

    I wouldn't put it past them, since these actives, and the EVEN WORSE ones before it actually made it out of the design meeting without being laughed out of the room. I absolutely HATE these legendary rings in the next patch in basically every way; they are SO BROKEN that encounters will be designed around them (GL if you aren't up to date on the questline on one of your alts), (or they will just trivialize fights), they favour burst classes ridiculously (I'm talking about DPS here), and they are ripe for trolling in random raids where some idiot just pops them (assuming they share cds, because if they don't holy shit they are completely broken) in their swifty macro. And that is just some of the problems with them.

    Too much Blizzard trying to make something 'cool' and not enough actually thinking for more then 5 seconds about the consequences. For them it's all about flashy and fun, instead of things that work well and are actually reasonably possible to balance. Goes along with their direction of making specs simpler and more RNG based, just so that everyone can be a winner, just have to win the RNG lottery (see Beastmastery for the perfect example of shit players doing amazingly with great RNG, and it's not the fault of the players they made the spec that way).

    end quote

    wait, are you troxism? lol


    1. I do have multiple blood DKs. So you never know. ;)

      He gets it and he is right. Blizzard is going the wrong way with RNG and have been more and more lately. The ring is just the next step in moving to pure RNG.