Friday, April 24, 2015

Celestalon Asks "Is the act of clicking the ring the fun part to you?"

In the continued hubbub over the legendary ring and its not so legendary raid cooldown usage, not to mention the trolls in non orginized groups that we know will come along with it, Celestalon, the same man that said "hunters seem fine" after playing what was the worst spec in the game by 50% at the time, asked "Is the act of clicking the ring the fun part to you?" in response to people that wanted the on use ability to be under their own control.

We already know back from his hunters are fine comment that Celestalon does not deviate from the company line.  The company said hunters were fine so of course he had to say hunters were fine.  He could not say the truth, he is a company man and the company is always right.

However it seems this time around Celestalon has thrown out a little piece of bait, something the grumpy one plans to nibble on.  Maybe this is his way of leading the conversation.  He can not say "yes this legendary ring idea is a horrible idea" because he is a company man and never would admit their wrong doings to the player base but he did open the door and lead us to how we can get this changed, maybe, by asking us, what do we like about it.

His whole question was "Honest question: Is the act of clicking the ring the fun part to you? Or the buff you get, the gameplay impact, & coordination?"

I am going to take the opportunity offered to me, and everyone in the warcraft community, to answer his question. I will break it down into parts.  I wish to try to convey how I feel about having the power in my own hands and to do so I don't think an answer of 140 characters would suffice.

Is the act of clicking the ring the fun part to you?

Yes, unequivocally yes.

I am still using the lucky double sided coin because I have had no luck with trinkets.  Even the heroic BRF trinkets I did manage to snag are actually worse than the 665 lucky double sided coin.  But the lucky double sided coin also has one additional reason I love it.  I can click on it to use it.  It is currently lovingly bound to the 7 key thank you very much and I love hitting it every time I do.

Every time you click on that button you can feel the power of the burn phase about to happen.  It is like you are screaming at the mob at the top of your lungs "feel the pain mo**er fu**er."

It is a surge or power, knowing that you can do more at that time.  That is why powerful on use trinkets are so awesome.  That is why people loved being engineers before the ability to put an on use on their gloves was removed.  It is an awesome feeling to be able to call down from the gods and released their power on your prey.

Is the art of clicking the ring the fun part for you?  Not just yes but a hell yes.  That was just a silly question.

Or the buff you get

The buff is always nice.  All buffs are nice.  Whoever says buffs are not nice is delusional.  But what the buff is has never been really that important.  How long the buff is has never been really that important.  Just the fact that the buff alone gives you power, power you did not have before that betters you and what you are capable of doing is nice.

Do I like the buff?  Yes, 25% increased damage as it is designed is nothing to sneeze at, that is for sure.  Would I like it if it were 25% agility, 25% multistrike, 25% critical strike, what have you?  Yes.  It boosts my ability.  Heck, even a 25% haste that is mostly useless to my class is still something I would like because it was something I did not have before.

The buff is good, yes, but what the buff is does not really matter.  The fact it makes us stronger is what matters, it is all that matters.

the gameplay impact

That is the main part of it. It is huge, huge beyond anyones definition.  As the ring is designed it is no longer how it impacts "my" game play but the groups game play.  I want it to work with my game play and I am sure a great deal of other people do as well.

So only one tank gets to benefit from the use of it?  Wouldn't it have a better game play impact if both tanks got that extra cooldown?  Now one tank could "steal" it when the other tank needed it.  Maybe he is not as skilled and gets scared and uses it to save himself when he did not need to (like I know I probably would, oops), but the other tank who is more skilled gets in a position that he needs it and now he does not have it.  That is just wrong.  It is his ring, he worked for it, he has as much right to that cooldown as the tank that used it.  So why does he get screwed, does the raid as a whole get screwed, when he possible dies and you have to waste a battle resurrection on him.  If only the ring he worked for, the ring he earned, his ring, was capable of being used when he wanted to.

Same goes for a healer.  Lets say healer one uses it with their tranquility but it turns out it was not really needed, then on big cooldown time number two when it is needed it is not available for the shaman with their totem and ascendance.  Didn't that shaman work for the ring?  Didn't that shaman earn that ring?  Shouldn't that shaman have the use of that ring for when they believe it is best fit?

Now to the damage dealers, the role I primarily play.  You are aware some classes work on two minute cooldowns, some on three minute cooldowns, some on other time length ones?

If a class works on a two minute cooldown and you blow the ring on the pull and then on cooldown throughout the fight it will line up nicely, for the most part, with their abilities.  What about the feral druid and his three minute berserk?  What about me on my hunter with my five minute stampede?

There is no way to make it work for everyone (So why make it work perfectly for no one?).  Part of the beauty and the skill of cooldown usage in how and when you use them.  It shows the skill of the individual player.  Can I squeeze in 3 or 4 2 minute trinkets?  If I can only do three maybe I should wait and not do the second on as soon as it comes off cooldown.  Maybe I can save it for a burn phase?  Maybe I can save it to have it up when I hit my second stampede at the end burn phase?  That would never work if it was hit every 2 minutes like it will be if it is a group wide cooldown.

I go back to what I said originally when I first read this idea for the legendary ring, it is my ring and I want to use it the way I want to use it.  I do not want someone else having control over my cooldowns. 

How would you feel if someone hit your cooldown at a bad time?  Blew your berserk in a phase where you can not attack the boss.  Blew your arcane power when you knew that for the next 10 seconds you could not stand still.  Blew your shield wall 10 seconds before you pull.  Blew your tranquility on the last trash pack before the boss.

None of that is fun, and someone else using my ring when it is not most beneficial to me would not be fun either.  Not for me and not for many others.


There is enough coordination that goes on in a raid.  There is time warp, there are healer rotations, there are healer cooldowns on tanks, there are positioning requirements, group requirements, target priorities, interrupt rotations, movement coordination, and so much more.

Let me ask you an honest question Celestalon, do you really think adding MY ring to what I need to coordinate for a raid would be more fun that letting me have the power at my beck and call?

I think I have given a very good argument for why my ring should be my cooldown and my cooldown alone.  Be it in the role of a damage dealer, tank or healer.  I would rather have control over my own "feel the pain mo**er fu**er" button thank you very much.  How about you?


  1. Yes to everything that you said.

    I actually liked the initial someone-always-has-the-rotating-power version more than I like the current one-person-controls-all option. Personal control beats both, however.

    I really don't even understand why having someone else control my gear is even on the table.

    1. The rotating power one was better than this. If they put in some sort of system where it made it that it was not so random, like it has to bounce through everyone before someone can get it a second time, it would work nicely in my opinion. I just did not like the RNG of it. I hate anything RNG.

      I don't get it either. How could blizzard think having someone else control your abilities is fun.

  2. Yes, yes, and yes to everything you've written so far about the whole (imo) hare-brained concept for the legendary. Every time I read Celestalon's comments, I wonder if he has ever played this game on anything but a development server with Blizz staffers.

    I found it interesting that for someone who has always preached that in a raid you should bring the player, not the gear and not the class, is now espousing the joy of bringing the gear. And a dev team that has always waxed poetic about how engaging it is to force hard decisions on players now removes individual decisions from players for a key cooldown ON THEIR OWN GEAR. It is like forcing the use of only one Black Arrow or one AMoC or one Stampede per cd per raid.

    And you are spot on about the fun of actually pressing the button. Especially for a cd-starved spec like SV hunters, who basically can only keep doing what they are already doing when the raid leader calls for "everything you've got!", unleashing a real surge of damage is priceless. Even more so in 6.2, when it appears we will not even have the joy of AoE awesomeness.

    I really hope they reconsider the legendary mechanic, but sadly I doubt they will, no matter what the feedback is.

    1. I do not think Celestalon is very knowledgeable of the actual game play. He often says things that leave you thinking "what?"

      Not sure if it is on purpose sometimes because I can not believe anyone that high up in the company has so little understanding of the game.

      An on use trinket for survival is what makes the rotation. They have no cooldowns so they need that, a lot. The rotation seems blah without it but it adds a little fun to it.

  3. No No and No as usual you and I drastically disagree. I don't care about pushing the button I don't even push Timewarp unless I have to I farm that out to a minion. If I have to push trinkets and buttons and things I macro them into normal spell rotations.

    I'm actually really looking forward to having another really big raid cool down that I can leverage in our raids. Does it suck in Looking for raid? Probably but if we are going to list things that suck in looking for raid we would be here all day and this wouldn't even be near the top. is some pug going to use it at the wrong time? probably but there's a fix for that Das Boot! Honestly no matter what happens there's going to be a vocal group of people unhappy. just watch if they do change it you will have people whining that they changed it (see the stupid stupid stupid debate about the ship name) In conclusion the internet is terrible

    1. We do not often agree but it is always good to hear all sides, even if you do not agree with them.

      I personally like hitting a button, as Fianoor said above, it is what makes survivals rotation. Without an on use it is boring and bland with no burst, no nothing. Having an on use trinket is awesome and fun. Having a trinket and a ring would be even better.

      You are right about one thing. If they change it there will still be complains. There will always be the people that like something and the people that don't. For me the bottom line on this one is I do not want someone else hitting my ring just the same as I do not want them hitting my 1 button, my 2 button, etc. I want to play my own character thank you very much and if I worked for the ring, it is mine to use, not yours or anyone elses.

      I don't get the ship thing. A case like that proves that people look for reasons to get upset over nothing. It was a non issue and it was made even worse by blizzard being stupid enough to cave into people for no good reason what so ever.

  4. Meh, I hate on use trinkets and would have preferred a proc on the ring.

    1. A proc would be better than this in my opinion. Procs are still luck based but at least it would be my proc that depends on me playing it.

  5. Good argument, as always.

    I think one of the big points of separation on this issue is skill. The top 10-15% of the skill curve are going to be much (MUCH) better at on use self buff synergy, so the raidwide 2 minute impacts them disproportionally. I'm not a rockstar DPS, so I like On Equip and Passives; my friend is a top 5% DPS, she loves On Use and active dps talents.

    A big part of getting traction with your point of view is going to be overcoming the fact that the upper end of the ability curve looses, but the rest of the world benefits. I agree that a raidwide, as currently constructed, is a craptastic idea. But Blizz has to face the fact that a bunch of the player base isn't/can't/won't get the benefit that you would, so no reason not to make it a 1 and done/RL controlled tool.

    1. I might not be in the top 10-15% but I love on use because it gives me the ability to adapt my game play and try to get more out of my class. It allows me to attempt to be one of the top 10-15%.

      They need to design the game for the 100%, not the 1%. I've said it once and will say it a million times. Designing for the 1% will hurt more than it helps.

  6. I completely understand the benefits of "on use" trinkets, but i still dislike them greatly. Their problem is they keep making these amazing trinkets with great buffs that scream "use me with cooldowns".

    What they should do, in my opinion, is remove both on use and RNG based trinkets and go with ones that give consistent buffs. I know this way isn't very elegant, but it would fix both issues for me.

    1. So instead of doing 3000 agility for 10 seconds every 2 minutes it would be a base 250 agility flat out on the trinket?

      That would have it place for sure. There are a lot of trinkets like that this expansion so far it seems. Maybe if they offer it as both, so people could aim for the one they want, luck providing of course.

      So you could get one with +300 crit and +250 agility and I could get one with +300 crit and 3000 agility for 10 seconds every 2 minutes.

      Might be interesting, but you know theory crafters, they would still place one higher than others and there would be a right and a wrong choice.