Tuesday, December 9, 2014

Blizzard: Mixed Signals or Without a Clue?

Just days after blizzard hit the level three salvage yard so hard with the nerf bat it has actually caused some people to quit the game, one I personally know of, because they did not like the idea that people were gearing up their followers so quickly they now have nerfed the achievement [Got My Mind on My Draenor Money] by lowering the requirement from 10,000 gold looted to 2500 gold looted.

I find this to be a very confusing set of messages.  They screwed over every player with a level three salvage yard because they did not want them gearing too quickly but the lower the gold looting achievement so people can get it quicker?

Lets face it, if anyone actually played the game they are easily closing in on the 10,000 looted already.  I am not even the most active person and I most likely would have hit the 10,000 looted number this weekend as I am currently sitting a little over 9,000.  Of course my progress on this achievement was pushed along because I have a lot of alts, but that does not change the fact that looting 10,000 gold on draenor is trivial at best in terms of difficulty.

All people needed to do was actually play the game.  If you looted all the treasures on draenor for the treasure finder achievements, and garrison resources, which happens to be my main reason for doing it, you will loot around 2000 gold just from that. 

Add that to the fact every lock box you open, that gold counts toward it.  Every dungeon boss you do, that gold counts toward it.  Every end dungeon baggie you open, that gold counts for it.  Every invasion baggie you get, that gold counts for it.  Every jewel crafting daily bag you open, that gold counts toward it.  Every raid boss you loot, that gold counts toward it.  When LFR comes out even more people will be looting more gold because those gold baggies count too. 

You see where I am going here.  One dungeon alone, with luck of the baggie at the end, could net you upwards of 200 gold, 100 if you have very bad luck.  And that is just one of many things you can do to loot gold.  This game is oozing ways to get you gold, if you just go out and get it.

Basically, if you play the game, even with one character, you will get the draenor money achievement because everything you loot will count toward it.  As long as you are actually playing and not standing around in your garrison letting your brain rot while reading trade chat. 

Doing dungeons, invasions, raiding, opening lock boxes, picking up random items around the world, gold is just all over the place.  The only reason I am as close as I am already is because I have four 100s already, soon to be five.  I am sure there are hundreds if not thousands that already have the achievement because they are more active than I.

In all due fairness, if I did any dungeons on my alts, or even one a day on my main, I would have had the achievement a week ago, or even earlier.  I just have not been active on any of them other than my main and that is why I do not have it yet.

So I find it perplexing that blizzard nerfs the level three salvage yard because they do not want people gearing followers too quickly and then nerf the draenor money achievement so people can get is quicker.

Is this a case of blizzard sending mixed messages or being completely clueless with their own design?

It is like they can not make up their mind on what they want people to do.  Do they want players to be able to get things done faster, as the change to draenor money makes it seem, or do they want to slow people down to a crawl, like the change to the level three salvage yard makes it seem.

If anything I was closer to the draenor money achievement than I was to having all my followers geared.  Yet the easier to get part, draenor money, they make even easier and the harder to do thing, gearing up all your followers, they slow down.  It really seems as if blizzard doesn't have a clue.

But maybe they do...

You see, there is something both changes do have in common.  Something, that from a game designer perspective is even more confusing because isn't it a game designers wish to have people play their game?

Both changes make people have to play less.

The change to the salvage yard means people do not need to log in as often to spam the lower level missions.  They can effectively log in twice a day and just send their people out on the longer missions.  So the change to the salvage yard could very well mean people play less.

The change to the draenor money achievement down to 2,500 gold looted, which my main had by day two of release just from collecting all the treasures and doing all the quests along with the starting 5 dungeons needed for the legendary quest line, also means it inspires people to play less.

What game designer in the right mind makes changes to their game that would require people to play less?

Does blizzard remember rule number one of what made this game a success?  The carrot on the end of the stick.  Keeping us chasing after something.  Keeping us playing.  Keeping us logging in.  That is what makes people keep coming back, keep playing and more importantly, keep paying.

So why is blizzard actively pushing people away?

Do they not want us to play?

That that is one hell of a mixed message.  A game that doesn't want us to play it.


  1. Grumpy, I don't know what you're doing but I've been playing the game every single day since WoD launched and I've only looted 2250g for that achievement. I've leveled one character to 100 and looted almost all of the treasures, done all the apexis dailies, ran at least one dungeon every day, etc. I've definitely been doing more than the average player would be doing. The gold drops are not nearly as plentiful as you claim. Since it's taken a month to get almost 1/4 of the way, it would take another 3 months at this rate to unlock the achievement for lvl 3 storehouse. Meanwhile, I've unlocked lvl 3 for barracks, stables, profession buildings, mine, salvage yard... This change was absolutely necessary for people who have a Storehouse (I don't, but regardless). I don't get it at all when you say it's an easy achievement that is sending mixed messages.

    1. I don't know what I am doing either then. lol

      I just loot everything, I pick up all treasures, I do my invasions, raids, dungeons, etc. And I would have hit 10,000 this week most likely.

      I am not farming gold, not even close.

      Maybe farming the reputations to get savage friends added up to a fair bit of gold. But like I said, I am doing nothing special at all. I could probably name at least 10 draenor treasures that give you over 100 gold each. Two I can recall give you over 200. That alone is at the very least 1400 gold for 12 treasures.

      Unless they changed it to those no longer counting since the first week when I opened all of them, it should be super easy for anyone to get 10K gold.

      Not sure why anyone would want the level 3 storehouse unless they were like me and just wanted all the patterns. I mean, transmog and void storage? Seriously. If transmog mattered that much to someone they would have the mog mount. Not sure why anyone would even want a level 3 storehouse.

      Maybe that is part of why I say leave it. It would be a long term goal for people. Something to work toward, aim for.

      A few questions however.

      End of dungeon baggie, what do you normally get? I get around 120G from one.

      Second dungeon baggie? Each one after seems to get less, from 50g-80g each.

      What do you get from invasions? Invasion baggies, which I do on three thus far, I usually get around 50 for bronze, 80 for silver and over 100 for gold.

      Lock boxes, have you got many and did you open them? I've opened at least 50 so far at 30g-50g each.

      Maybe I am just getting lucky with baggies.

    2. Heh, came here to call out on GE on this subject as well, but you were faster. I've got a l100 which was prepped and used for raiding (7 bosses on nhc and 6 on hc down), and started to level 2 chars (94 and 96), and I'm in the same boat. Only looted like 3.3k gold. Of course I looted the majority of treasures on my main too, since GR are very important and scarce at the start to get the garrison levelled up. Treasures are the best source of GR early on, especially if you don't have a lumber mill. On the other hand I didn't do any grinding rep or 6 followers to wingman so here's a source of gold that GE had but many people don't do that early and quickly. Also, I've had 2 invasions so far. Not much, but also linked to rep grind.

      The problem with this achievement isn't the fact that it is too hard, it's because it takes just so much longer to unlock a minor and UP building than about anything else.

      There's only one other l3 blueprint condition that I find problematic: the trading post one. Level 3 factions to exalted so that you can get a rep bonus? sorry that's stupid.

      As for the salvage yard change... I don't mind it. In fact, it's probably better now. We can focus on l100 missions and be sure to get a box. Sometimes, I would get like 1-2 boxes out of 10+ (low and high level alike) missions. It feels better and more straight-forward now imho. And, of course, now I don't feel like I have to leave my PC on just so I can log in via remote desktop every hour just to check on missions. Yeah, having to bother about missions only twice a day is a good thing. Missions are nice but not fun enough to justify a huge time commitment. The garrison is too bothersome at the moment anyway (wtb weekly herb garden and mine).

    3. Can't call me out on it, I have 9K gold looted. That is a fact.

      I have 4 100s, soon 5, so being they can get around 2K each just from looting treasures might play a big part. Even if I only looted them all on one character.

      Also, look at the things I mentioned to him and the gold you get from all of them. Heck, doing just 10 dungeons is 1000 gold looted minimum.

      A lot plays into the fact I have alts of course, but it is still not a difficult achievement to get. In time just from doing your weekly stuff you would get there in no time even if you only play one character. A guild mate that only has 1 100 is already over 6K. But he does 2 or 3 dungeons every day, and that really adds up fast.

      Tip. Do not open the baggie in the dungeon, open it in your garrison. It does not count if you open it in the dungeon sometimes it seems.

    4. Keep in mind Mr. Grumpy that you are easily in the top 5% if not top 1% of active players that play this game. You might be really efficient at it all time wise but you do ALOT.

      I myself have 3 characters now to 100 but only one has any gear. Last I checked I had about 5000 gold for that achievement. Meanwhile I have unlocked all of the other level 3 blueprints I wanted a week or two ago.

      The nerf to the storehouse one helps bring it in line time wise with the other building unlocks. It is a good and logical adjustment.

      The salvage yard change is interesting.. but I can hardly understand why anyone would quit over it or even be too angry. This stuff is gonna be around for a while after all.. I mean.. damn dude.

    5. Not really, look at the post from james below. He has 2 100s and is at 5.5K, I have 4 and a 99 and am at 9K. If anything I am behind him.

      I do a lot of grinding because I really love to do that, I know that is against the grain for most, and that adds up. But outside of that I do not believe I have done anything that any other player could not have done. Heck, once again, see james, who is ahead of me on a gold per character basis.

      All that aside, this is not about how easy or hard it is to get the achievement. It is about the mixed messages blizzard is sending. They make one change to slow us down and then another change to speed us up. Could call it balancing, but I call it mixed messages.

    6. As for my friend that quit, he is a stay a home parent and really loved the facebook style of game play the garrisons offered with a level 3 salvage yard.

      He was digging logging in every hour and having the chance to get something good out of the boxes, even if he never did. He leveled other characters for the sole purpose of getting level 3 salvage yards so he had more characters to do it with.

      He even paid to get 90s so he could get them to 100 just to do that and open boxes. He loved that he could spend hours bouncing from one character to the next just doing missions all day. This was how he had his fun, he was loving it, more excited about the game than he has ever been. And they killed it in one sweep. Completely ruined all fun he was having from it.

      He had spent money to boost 3 90s just to get them to 100 just so he could do this and blizzard screwed him over. Basically stole his money because he boosted them for this one specific reason. He felt slighted, rightfully so, at blizzard for screwing him like this and he quit.

      Personally if I was him I would have done the exact same thing. For the casual player that does not raid, with absolutely zero at 100 content in this expansion, all he had was the garrison missions and opening those boxes for fun hoping for something great and they took that from him. Now the game offers him nothing. Glad he stood his ground and left over it. The game just took his money and then removed the thing he paid the money for.

      Yeah, as I said, if I were him I would have quit too. And I would have sent in a request for a refund on the 3 characters boosted. I told him to do that. After all, he boosted them for the level 3 salvage yards and then blizzard removed them from the game. He should get his money back.

    7. Gotta disagree that 10k is easy.

      Just focusing on the raid/dungeon aspect, I have done 16 normal and 29 heroic dungeons in Draenor.


      Based on your low-end estimate of 50g per dungeon, that should be 50 x 45 = 2250g. Or if we look only at heroic dungeons 50 x 29 = 1450g.

      I have also achieved the Master Treasure Hunter achievement which means I looted at least 50 treasures of Draenor.


      I've done around 15 apexis crystal dailies and killed 3-4 raid bosses (including world boss).

      I have 1,824g looted in Draenor total.


      By contrast, the 2500g nerfed version of the achievement is within striking distance. I will probably get it this month.

      I don't know how much a "normal" player plays, but I feel like I am playing quite a bit, more than the "normal" player, I think.

      I have 1 character.

      Will have to post back with /played time at this level when I get a chance to log in. I suspect yours is 5x higher since you have alts, but perhaps you are just 5x as efficient.


    8. It is not about ease or difficulty. It is about mixed signals. The make one things harder, so it takes longer and make one thing easier so it happens faster. I am sure they have their reasons, and I might even agree with them, 10K for the level 3 storehouse is out of line, but it is still a set of mixed messages.

      On to the achievement itself.

      You have to be doing something wrong then. There is no way with what you have done to not have more, a hell of a lot more. I have not done anywhere near as many dungeons on all my characters combined.

      Are you opening the bags outside of the dungeon or inside of them? I think this might be key.

      Yesterday I did my gold invasion, LFR, my apexis daily, all on only one character, and I leveled one of my characters half a level yesterday and I moved my total up over 300g for the day. And I did nothing special. Seriously, nothing that not everyone could have done.

      I would say that what I did yesterday is what a normal play would do. Heck, a normal player might have even mixed in a dungeon or two pushing that number for the day to 400.

      All I can think that you, and the others, are doing differently is opening your bags in the dungeon instead of "on draenor" like I am. Yes, I took the achievement literally. Because as I said, I moved up over 300g yesterday and did nothing special.

    9. I haven't paid attention. I'm sure I opened some of them out of the dungeon. I have no idea whether I did it in stormwind or draenor. The dungeons are still on draenor, so it makes no sense to require the player to be outside the dungeon.

      Most of the bags I've opened have been outside the dungeon because I don't even pay attention to that stuff until I'm done a lot of times.

      Thanks for the response.


    10. /played
      Total time played this level: 4 days, 23 hours, 23 minutes, 44 seconds (so 119.40 hours)

      Expansion was released 11/13.
      28 days since then to present (12/10).
      119/28 = average of 4 hours 15 minutes per day

      I have to believe this is not casual, even if I am not a hardcore raider in a top guild or anything.

      Anyway, thanks for the post. Food for thought.


    11. When in the dungeons sometimes it seems bugged. If you opened it in stormwind it surely did not count.

      I tried playing around with a few lockboxes on day one to see if they counted, and they did not count in stromwind, but they did in my garrison.

      I probably played that much on my main as well. Had off work the first week of release so really played a ton then. I still call myself casual. Remember, casual and hardcore are not about time spent, it is about how you feel about the game. I am casual in the fact I am not in a "rush" to get things. I do not do everything I can to be first. I move at my pace so I can enjoy the game as I like to. If it takes me 3 months to down a raid boss, so be it. That is what casual means. Casual is not something you can hang a time on. A person in my guild is as casual as they come and he is on 12 or more hours a day.

  2. I think it adds up from alts. I looked on my main at one point and had about 3.5k. Now I have 5.5k but recently got an alt to 100. Which is probably from treasures (didn't hunt all like I did on my main and only did a few normal dungeons).
    Blizz changes things when people complain, usually. I don't see the harm in changing it, but I'm more of a 'whatever' person, I don't bother going out of my way to unlock something or another, when it happens it happens.

    1. As I keep telling the others, I am sure it is the alts. It does add up.

      If you have 5.5K with 2 hundreds, my 9K with 4 is actually behind the rate you are going.

      I don't see the harm is changing it either, but I do not see it as why change it. They changed the salvage yard to slow us down, but then change this to speed us up. Mixed messages as I see it.

    2. Actually... I compared now with my honey. I'm at 6k something (checked yesterday). My honey who has more lvl 100 alts than me and plays a lot more than me and doesn't skip treasures and such has about 3.5k. So I'm now thinking it's the JC daily from the follower. Can't think of anything else.

    3. That is wild. Maybe it is bugged and counting some things for some people while not counting them for others.

      I did my gold invasion yesterday and opened the baggies with the achievement tacking to see if it was adding up, and it did. While I did not do much at all yesterday, on the back of the gold invasion alone I made over 300g toward the progress.

      Some people, many it seem, say that it is not counting stuff like that but I know for an absolute 100% fact it is counting that. I made sure to check at the start. Even gold looted fro lockboxes helps. And I seem to get getting them like they are going out of style. Got two more yesterday even not playing much. Have not opened them yet.

      The JC one does count, and I have two JCers at 100. And dungeon bags do count, as long as you are out of the dungeon. So heck, if people are not as high as you at least, I can't help but think they are either doing something wrong or are bugged and some things are not counting for them that should.

  3. Essentially grumpy, the problem with that achiev, is that it can't be done in a timely manner with only one character compared to the other achiev required for blueprints.

    I played ALOT since realease (we're speaking 5 total day of playtime during the first week alone here) spamming dungeon in guild, looting EVERYTHING, cleared normal and HC higmaul this week, unlocked all level 3 blueprint excpet tranding post and gladiator sanctum, and still I'm only at 4k ish.

    See the problem? no alt = take supidely long compared to other achiev.

    1. I can see how this could take a fair deal longer without alts. You have a very good point there. I am so close because of alts.

      Are you opening the dungeon bags inside of the dungeon or outside of it? If you open them inside they do not seem to be counting, but if you open them outside, they do.

      I had a few backed up, opened my achievement to see if they were counting, and stood in my garrison and opened them and watched my gold looted soar up. I am sure they were not counting when I opened them in the dungeon or I would have had the achievement already.

      The conversation here is more about how blizzard did a change to one thing to slow us down to a crawl, comparatively speaking, and another change to speed it up so that it really isn't much of an issue to begin with at all.

      It is not about how hard or how easy it was to get. It is about speeding up one and slowing down another when the one they slowed down was already moving slower than the one the sped up. It is about mixed messages.

    2. I don't feel I'm getting less salvage since the "nerf". If anything I'm getting more (anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, sure). But do not forget aswell that getting that many lowlevel mission was not planned to start with. They hotfixed that so we had enough missions to level low level followers once we got level 100s. THAT is the only reason we had so much salvage. Now we are back to intended level. Spamming low-level short-duration mission was never the intended gameplay from blizzard.

      Was it poorly led? Sure. Is it illogical? absolutely not.

    3. That is part of it too. I loved the low level missions to level characters, even 100s. It was a lot easier to send 100s out on dozens of missions per day and get a chance at the box while getting their experience than tying them up in a level 100 missions for 10 hours that they might fail.

      I do not do 100 missions unless I can hit 100% and even with 22 epic followers I can rarely if ever do that. I would rather do lower missions with shorter times that are 100% over longer missions that are a coin flip any day.

      Add to that the level 3 salvage yard is supposed to give level 3 salvage. And what you have is you have taken away choice and changed what a building does because they did not like that people were enjoying it.

      Remember blizzards motto. If people are enjoying it, we have to remove it.

      I feel I am getting roughly the same as I was before (anecdotal as well) but now my followers that are not 100 epic yet are leveling sssssoooooo much slower.

      That is what I believe their real reason behind this was. To slow us down.

    4. sounds like you don't have very good followers... if you have 22 level 100 followers what are there distribution of stats are you using any mods to manage them? I'm able to 100% any quest I've wanted to for the last week but I've been very mindful og what characters I'm leveling and there abilities. I also spent some time with a Inn to make sure I had at least two followers with epic mount and a good supply of salvagers. I've been thinking I should have picked up one more epic mount but I'm hoping for a lucky roll on my last few blue 100's adding two epic mounts to a 10 hour will drop it to a nice 2 and a half hour so nice!

    5. 22 level 100 epic followers. Which means they all have 2 counters.

      Missions are luck of the draw. Follower abilities are luck of the draw. From reading here you know what my luck is like. So figure that out yourself. ;)

      I could probably stand to wait for other followers to come back before starting new missions, so I have the right team to get 100%, but being they are all so damn long and I do not know if I will be on, that is not really an option. I send what I can when I can and hope for the best.

      This is one of those reasons I prefer the lower missions. Shorter, which means you have the followers you need more often, easier, which means you are always at 100%, and more experience per hour than longer level 100 missions.

      Level 100 needs more 1 and 2 hour missions to actually be a viable leveling option. Otherwise, I just wait until they are purple, bang them up to a 654 item level, and then hope for the best.

    6. I would really invest in at least 2 epic mounts for your followers cutting the time down really really helps I've got a 20 plus followers that are epic too 11 or 12 with 645 ilevel most of the time they stand around with nothing to do because all my missions are done. I use the epic mounts to cut down on mission time both are epic so its easy to fit them into any mission.

    7. Problem is that I do not have the time to send them on too many missions. If they are 4 hours missions I, most days, can do them and send them on a second one. So maybe epic mount can help. But still need the right mix of skills.

      Right now I am removing ones with duplicate abilities and pulling inactives out to level them in hopes they will give me a better secondary ability. I have 38 followers currently. So still more than a few to get to epic and level up. Not to mention the inn recruits.

      What sucks now is that with the inn recruits, I am getting those crap bags instead of the ones I am supposed to be getting. Seriously hate that blizzard did that.

    8. what are you recruiting out of the inn? I recruited salvages until I have 5 different salvages and 2 epic mounts. look into the mods that help you manage followers there really great you can see how many have each ability what item level they are if they are inactive or active. Last night I did my 10 hour free reroll rare quest in 2 and a half hours with 100% chance to go. thanks too epic mount. Epic mount and salvage are amazing

    9. Grabbed a few massive strike counters at the get go and doing scavengers now. I needed the massive strike counter because alliance only have one guaranteed with it. Two if they take the artillery tower in talador, which I did.

      I might have to download a mod to make it faster as I have 5 100s now. But I really do like the do it yourself approach, it is part of the fun of playing that I think would be lost with an addon just telling me what is best, if you know what I mean. Not sure I want to give up that part of the game.. just yet. But I will, as I said, for time reasons.

    10. that's fair I don't really use it for what it recommends for missions. I like to make my own missions. Like it doesn't take into account for when I want a mission done fast. I use it for the HUD of what I have available when they are getting back from other missions what they can counter and their item level in a quick easy mouse over. early on I made a mistake on who I upgraded to 645 first because they were both goblins that looked the same to me. "is that racist?"

    11. You racist you. I am going to tell the society for the better treatment of small people. I think they are goblins, could be gnomes, who knows, they all look the same. ;)

      It could still be a help for me some. I might have to download it soon. One more 100 and I think my head will explode with all these missions.

  4. Well I've told you I still have less than 1k but then I haven't been trying for it. I'm kinda annoyed with the nerf because while it would have taken me a while I don't care about that. I like to have things to work towards, I don't need to just get things easily or instantly. The reason why I have so little is because I haven't been playing in Draenor much.

    Plus I think blizz maybe do reverse psychology. They do whatever they can to try and make us not play, but yet we keep on playing.

    Like I said things to work towards. Those rare drop mounts/pets and legendaries from old content. Blizz should make more of that somehow as that is my favourite content to do. That's where my focus is rather than Draenor. I know it doesn't take long to do but I don't always have a lot of time to play.

    It's weird, what is really mixed messages is they said a year or so ago that they "wanted to look forward and not back" when people asked for a scenario for wrathgate for example. Then they do the nostalgia trip of Warlords which is all about looking back in a way. It's strange.

    1. It does seem like something meant to please the instant gratification crowd. But I guess I can concede that some people might actually want the storehouse level 3 building and for them it might be a grind, even more so with one character. But no more of a grind than the trading post level 3. I can see that one being reduced to needing just 1 reputation soon.

      I like the idea of things to work toward myself. Leaving an achievement like that made it feel like I was striving for something, I had a goal, now they took that from me. Which bothers me in a way. I would have minded less if they added a second achievement for 2500 and gave the storehouse pattern for it and left the 10K so I still have something to strive for. It feels so lame to be so close to getting one of the long term goals so soon and then have it stripped from me just before I get it. I think that is why I dislike this change most.

      I don't think the left hand knows what the right hand is doing most of the time at blizzard and that is why we get so many mixed messages like that.

      My favorite of all time is the cata prelaunch. They say they are removing volley from hunters because they do not want them to feel like a magic caster and then one day later give survival a mastery bonus that increases all magical damage. Wait, you removed one ability because you do not want us feeling like we do magic, then you increase our magic damage. What the hell are you people smoking?

    2. "I can see that one being reduced to needing just 1 reputation soon."

      Nailed it... today's news is that they are lowering the savage friends achievement to only need one reputation at exalted.

      Saw that one coming from a mile away.

    3. But to be fair, 20% rep on lvl3 was pretty much useless otherwise.

    4. It was intended to be account wide. So one characters gets it and upgrade than the alts get a 20% increase.

      However being it is not account wide, now it makes a hell of a lot more sense. What is the use of the reputation increase after you have all the reputations? (yes I do realize there are more than 3 but you get the idea)

  5. I'm gonna have to side with the I like this change crowd. I like not having to churn missions like I was I feel like I can do other things with out worrying about missions now. Some one that I know always would add YMMV "Your Mileage May Vary" seems very apt here. Sorry that you feel you are losing game play but your loss is my gain! wink

    1. It actually works both ways. I like the lesser missions not only for the boxes they got but because they are easier and more effective to level followers with. Not to mention shorter.

      However I can get behind the idea that I too was already getting tired of the time I got to my last character my first had 11 missions done. It was getting tired fast. So in that terms it is a good change. However, I would have rathered they leave it an option instead of playing our parent and telling us, no, you can not play with this toy.

      Some people, like the person I mentioned, it completely ruined their entire enjoyment of the expansion. So for every person that loved it there are probably three like me riding the middle, and one on the other end that hates it.

  6. From what I understand, the Salvage Bags use a giant (138 page on WoWDB) Loot Table that includes many of the unique-model Greens Cataclysm effectively removed (e.g. Foreman's Vest, Thinking Cap, Assassin's Hood).

    Although not my favorite way of seeing these Items return, returning and raising loads of Alt Garrisons to get loads of bags to get these items did cross my mind, especially now that Gnome Hunters may finally be in the books (and already are NPC-wise).

    This nerf quelled these thoughts, thankfully.

    1. I heard some people making a lot of gold selling those things for transmog. I have too much to do on a daily basis and not enough time to do it all, so sadly I just vendor all the junk I get from it.

      I saw that about gnome hunters. Best hope they are not bacon flavored or their pets will surely eat them. ;)