Thursday, October 21, 2010

Need Before Greed

Where exactly is the line drawn with need before greed?  I know what the system designs are and I know what my personal option on the matter is but my opinion is just that, an opinion. 

The perfect example are the Frozen Orbs and how some servers hit need on it while others hit greed.  Blizzard stepped in for this and made it so that while in a LFD you can only roll greed on them, which worked for me being that is what I normally rolled to begin with.

The Frozen Orb thing only touched the base of what needed to be done and I recently noticed that being the books of glyph mastery are suddenly going for 250 gold each.  I've seen 3 drop recently where I most likely had only seen 2 in my entire playing time drop before that.  I am sure they upped the drop rate because of the inscription change but it seems people are rolling need on them.

I was in a dungeon when one dropped, or course I was hoping I would win it because I have a scribe that is still missing a great deal of glyphs.  I rolled greed because I wanted it for my own little greedy reasons.  Someone else hit need and won it.  Someone called them out on it and they said, "but I have inscription" and it was dropped.  They had inscription so it was fine for them to roll need, at least to the people in this group.

Another group I was in one dropped and the same thing happened.  I rolled greed and so did everyone else except for one person who rolled need.  Of course someone asked why they rolled need and they responded "I am a scribe" to which everyone once again let it go.  Until a few minutes later when someone said, "no your not".  I guess they went to the armory and looked or maybe he just figured he would call him out.  The guy did not miss a beat, he just said, "my mage is my scribe".  I said, "my DK is my scribe and I did not roll need,"  There we no answer but it left me to think about what exactly is the Need Before Greed moral center in the game.

Hitting Need on something that the character that you are currently playing can use is universally accepted and no one will really complain.  As seen, someone that is a scribe hitting need on a book of glyph mastery is fine with most.  Someone hitting need on a book of glyph mastery when one of their other characters has inscription is not fine with most.  It was not fine with me either.  If I knew that someone was going to roll need on it that did not even have inscription I would have as well.  In that case I needed it as much as that person did.  They needed it for another character, I needed it for another character, seems we had equal claim on it to me right?

So what exactly is this Need Before Greed system?  It doesn't seem to take into account that for the most part everyone needs everything.  Unless it is a BoP pattern for something you do not have the skill for and has a 0 gold sell price then you can reasonable make an argument that you need anything that can be used or sold.

I need that plate armor even though I only wear cloth because I am broke and it can sell for 22 gold.

I need that book of glyph mastery for my mage.

I need that damaged necklace because it sells for 200 gold.

I need the battered hilt because I can still get 5000 gold for it.

I need the frozen orb because I have a jewelcrafter/tailor/etc that can use it.

I need the frozen orb because it seems for 25 gold.

I need the frozen orb because I need an eternal fire and I can trade it for it.

So how come we can not hit need on the frozen orb when all the reasons we would want it are really for greedy reasons while we can hit need on other things that are only wanted for really greedy reasons?

I know in lower level dungeons I often have someone in my group that hits need on everything that pops up.  Need it or not.  They always hit need.  Most people do not even notice it until something they needed actually drops and the need freak wins it.  They call them out and I just point out that they have been hitting need on everything all dungeon.  If you had something to say you should have said it the first time the tank rolled on the spell power cloth item.

I think that is why this mentality gets by with most people not noticing.  I personally notice everything but notice that others never do until it effects them.  I even saw a few posts on the forums that people say they roll need on everything that they can because what is the worst that could happen, they get kicked and then query up for another dungeon and do it all again.

The perfect character to do this with is a Pally Tank.  Anything plate that drops they can roll on.  Spell Power plate?  It's for my offspec.  Attack Power plate? It's for my offspec.  Tanking plate?  I am the tank after all.  Plate also sells for the most usually.  I've seen a few Pally tanks post that this is what they always do.  Their idea is that they will not get kicked 99% of the time because people do not want to wait around for another tank and they get the best of both worlds because plate usually sells for more.  They do not even need an offspec, they just say they need it for that.

Then we go to the next thing.  I needed because I needed it for my offspec.  What about the Pally healer that is in the run with you.  Well, he needed it and I needed it.  I won, fair and square.  You see, LFD does not have the main spec first attitude, they have an "I Need It" attitude.   Even the ones that are not trying to ninja everything they can hit greed on still hit need on things they need for offspec.

With all these changes I think it is time for me to adapt to the new world.  So many people abuse the LFD system with rolls because they know they will never see these people again.  Tanks and healers more then others being they know their numbers are smaller so people let them get away with more.

So the new Need Before Greed attitude is this.

If the option for need lights up.  Hit it.
If the option for need is not lit.  Hit greed or disenchant.

If anyone argues then explain to them that you needed it because...

... It was a BoE green item you need for your Enchanter to disenchant.
... It was a BoE green item you need to sell for gold being that is worth more then what it would disenchant into.
... It was a BoE blue item you need for your new xxxxx that is hitting 80 soon.
... It was a BoE blue item you need to sell for gold being it sells for a lot.
... It was a BoE purple you need because it is purple, do you need any other reason?
... It was something your class can roll on and you are going to disenchant it anyway being you are the Enchanter in the group that is allowing everyone to disenchant everything else.  You need at least some sure drops for letting them get Enchanting materials for free.
... It is something your class can roll on that you need because it sells for the twice the price of the dream shard it would have disenchanted into anyway.
... It is a leather working pattern that you need for your leather working alt.
... It is an alchemy recipe that you need for your alchemy alt.
... It is an engineering pattern that you need for your engineering alt.
... It is a blacksmith pattern that you need for your blacksmith alt.
... It is a jewel crafting design that you need for your jewel crafting alt.
... It is a tailoring pattern that you need for your tailor alt.
... It is a material you need for making xxxxx.
... It is something I can sell for gold that I need.
... You get the idea, basically, you can need anything.

Need is more an opinion.

I needed those books of glyph mastery because I did not want to play 250 gold for them on the auction house but I did not roll need on them?  No.  I rolled greed on them.  My reasoning was that I was on my Priest which is a tailor/enchanter and a tailor/enchanter does not need a book of glyph of book mastery.  If I were on my DK who happens to be my scribe I would have rolled need on it because that character needed it.  As in actually needed it and would use it the second I won it.

That is how I decide need vs. greed personally.  If it is something I can use on that character now or in the immediate future (like a level 39 rolling on gear that requires level 40) then I feel rolling need is acceptable.  If it is not something you will use immediately or in the immediate future then you should never roll need on it.

Even if my jewel crafter needs one frozen orb per day for my daily prism I never rolled need on it.  I rolled greed on it.  I was being greedy needing it to save myself gold so to speak.  So greed was an appropriate roll in my opinion.

The sad part is I think I am the last of my kind when it comes to Need Before Greed.  I actually follow the spirit of those rules whereas it seems so few do any more.

Perhaps it is time for this old dog to learn a new trick and start playing by the new breed of Need Before Greed rules.

If you can hit need, need it.
If you can't, greed/disenchant it.

Seems like this is the way the game is turning and in all honesty I do not see a way that is could be fixed outside of making everything professions based greed only which I would be against as if I were that profession I should be able to need it. 

If we allowed people that need if they where that profession however it would get abused in time.  Example, once someone learns all the glyphs they could still need on them just for the purpose of selling them.  So even making things profession linked is still not fair.  This all means the death of the old Need Before Greed mantra and the birth of the new Need Before Greed mantra.  

I would just feel so dirty needing on something that I knew I was only hitting need for because I am being greedy.  I know.  It's just a game. Even at that it does not mean you have to play without any morals.

1 comment:

  1. I think they should go the same route with BOEs or "currency" items like Books of Glyph Mastery as they did Frozen Orbs - only one option. Safest, no hassle, no dispute. Probably not for greens though - that would be bad for lower-level dungeons where green drops are legitimate upgrades. But blue-quality and higher? Should be greed-only, by far.