Monday, November 18, 2013

Monday Random Thoughts

- I took some time off from the end game grind for some leveling this weekend.

- I tired to get the last secrets on my priest at the beginning of the week and ran everything they drop from and only managed to get 2.

- At least it is more than 1 or 0.

- 1 and 0 is what I had the previous two weeks.

- So 3 in 3 week.

- 5 people in my guild have started, and completed, the secrets part of the quest in those three weeks.

- And people wonder why I am always bitching about the random number generator.

- It deserves to be bitched about.

- But after another week of hell when it comes to drop rates I figured I would take a week off from working on progressing alts.

- My main is valor capped and my alts are at various stages of the quest line and none are having any luck with drops.

- Three coins each week on weapons bosses, and we down at least three of those a week, and no weapon for me still.

- Sucks, you know it does right?

- I healed the first few bosses as it was needed and guess what dropped off the second boss?

- The weapon for my hunter.

- I am at a 100% drop rate for my weapon off bosses when I am tanking for healing one of them.

- I am at a 0% drop rate and 0% coin rate on them when I am on my hunter.

- So I needed a break.

- I needed a break, something different for the weekend.

- Wouldn't you agree?

- Time to head back to the only part of the game that actually feels rewarding, leveling a new character.

- When you do stuff, you level.

- You see your effort rewarded.

- You see a bar telling you how far away from that reward you are.

- You know you are actually advancing.

- End game does not offer that reward.

- You can do everything every week and get nothing.

- One priest needed 6 secrets 3 weeks ago, I figured I would finish it off, still have not finished it.

- Another priest needed 1 sigil of power, just 1 sigil of power.

- I ran everything that can drop it for 2 weeks and did not get it.

- That is 24 bosses each week for 2 weeks, for one sigil, and nothing.

- For those people that do not grasp the magnitude of how bad it is I hope you never go 48 bosses without a quest item drop.

- At least if I level a new priest I know in 10,800 experience I get a level.

- At least if I level a new priest I know as soon as I collect 12 bear meat I get a new wand.

- At least I see my effort rewarded.

- Leveling is just so much more exciting than end game in terms of effort and reward.

- Questing = Small effort, seemingly powerful reward.

- Max level = Massive effort, so little reward and that little reward is left up to luck.

- We need a middle ground.

- You decide which one is better when you are in the mood to play and want to feel like you are getting somewhere.

- Killing 24 bosses and not getting one sigil is basically a epic feeling of wasting my time.

- All that work for no reward.

- Now if it were a quest that said, kill 24 bosses and I will give you this sigil, it would have been worth it.

- The game needs to make people feel like they are being rewarded, even if it is with something that they do not need.

- I would rather get a new pair of gloves that I do not need and I will vendor when I finish the quest then let random number generator decide if I was going to get a reward at all for doing it.

- End game has completely lost its reward.

- As least for people with bad luck it has.

- But the gearing up phase, when you first hit 90.

- Now that I love.

- Even more so with the island.

- It feels as if you are building up to take on the world.

- It feels as if you are moving forward.

- At least until you hit the brick wall of random to progress you any further.

- So I started a new character this weekend.

- I figured I would play a little with the actual feeling of being rewarded after another week of the LFR fucking me over with drops.

- Guess what level I made it to?

- I am not telling, not even telling the class.

- But I will say I made it far, really far.

- Feel free to leave your guess as to level and class if you feel so inclined.

- Power leveling is rewarding, seeing how far you can level over a weekend.

- It feels like an accomplishment to look back on your weekend and see progress was made.

- Instead of looking and saying, I killed 24 bosses and got no sigils I can say, look at all that work and I am now 30 or 40 or 50 or higher.

- Leveling has its bad points too, do not get me wrong.

- Like at end game in the LFR the bad runs are more about bad people than it is bad play.

- Bad play can be over come with a decent group of people, trust me, I've seen it.

- Most of the leveling issues I could complain about come down to bad people.

- Like having a quest to kill some mobs and someone at 90 is working on their goblin rep and grinding them so there are none for me to kill because they one shot the entire zone basically.

- When I am out doing things like that if I see a quester I stop, let them do their quest, then go about what I am doing.

- Perhaps that is because I am not a world class asshole like it seems everyone else in the game is.

- I am just a world class grump.

- I did have a lot of fun spending the weekend leveling however.

- Still not fond of the busier world and waiting for respawns, but for all the bad there is with more people out in the world there is some good.

- I can not believe the number of people that will buff you, at random.

- I've had people riding past me dismount, throw a buff on me, and then mount back up and continue along.

- Something so little, but it made me feel good.

- I was in one cave killing mobs that were part of a quest and there was a rogue there with me.

- We took turns on the mobs.

- I would tag one, he would help me down it, then he would tag one and I would help him down it.

- Sure, we could have grouped but this seems so much more human, if you will.

- It shows something about someone when they are willing to work with you.

- Anyone can group for their own advantage, but it takes a good person to work as a team when you are not in a group.

- I ran into this a few times.

- I threw a bandage on someone that was fighting that looked like they needed it, just for fun.

- They thanked me by bandaging me up when it was over even if I did not need it.

- He laughed, I laughed, we moved on.

- It seems like for every bad story of bad people you run into there is a story of good ones you run into as well.

- This is the first character in forever that I decided not to level fishing as I was questing.

- I am leveling my other professions for the most part however.

- When it comes to fishing I usually will stop at every pool as I go along, only fishing from pools.

- It does slow me down, but I enjoy doing it.

- It is also good for keeping cooking up as well as leveling fishing.

- But now with pandaria you can level cooking from one to current, so it is not a big deal any longer.

- And if you go to the catch of the day area, you can level fishing from 1 to current always catching something because you will always have a wealth of pools.

- And if you choose a good catch of the day to do it on you can actually make a mini fortune on it too.

- I am still selling paddlefish (if that is the name, can't recall at the moment) for 300 gold a stack.

- You will easily have many stacks while leveling fishing there.

- So make a few grand, level a profession, and pass the time while waiting in queue when end game comes.

- Or just go and start another new character, because leveling is so much more rewarding.

- Anything is more rewarding when compared to waiting for the LFR forever, getting in and getting a bad group, and then getting nothing you need from it.

- It is lose (for waiting), lose (for bad people), lose (for bad players), lose (for wasting gold on repairs), lose (for not getting gear), and lose (for not getting quest items).

- Where is there any "win" in the LFR, where is your sense of moving forward?

- At least with leveling you see yourself  progress toward your goal.

- At least with leveling you control your progress toward that goal.

- Makes me wonder, should leveling be longer like it used to be?

- I used to say yes, but I think I am changing my mind.

- As the times change the game must change with it.

- With level 100 coming soon and the imposing task that seems like to someone that has never played maybe they need to do a level squish too.

- Because 100 just seems, well, a long way away.

- Even if you can make it to 80 in one weekend now.

- Okay, maybe most won't make it to 80 in one weekend.

- But you get the idea.

- And just to mention, it can be done.

- Have a great day.


  1. I'm glad you had a good weekend. I'm guessing monk for being crazy fast as they have the buff thing. I think I could do with some speed levelling tips. Though I think the only tip I need is "stick with it" as I just get bored so easily. Early on it's alright as you ding every couple of quests and so it feels like you are getting somewhere. I got to level 25, ran out of rested and the next two levels felt interminable. Given that it only gets worse and I'm only level 27 I'm not looking forward to the next 53 levels.

    I just hate levelling in Warcraft. The first time through it's fine, it's all new, I read the quest text, get loremaster and it's fine. The second time I know what troubles I ran into the time before and so it goes a lot smoother. After that it's just a pain. Mists killed alts for me, I've levelled all but 3 to cap out of habit, and for the professions so they are ready for next expansion. I haven't played any of the alts really and I can't face levelling the last 3. My goal to have one of every class at cap seems like it'll never be realised. I was one short in cata, and I'll probably be two short in Mists.

    I don't understand and I am really curious as to why you like levelling so much. I know you said it's a dependable reward, you can see how far you've come and how far you've got to go. The actual content though. I just don't find the quests engaging, even if there's a long time between repeats. Do you like the actual quests? I seriously am curious.

    Do you think that if they put a boost to level 90 in the store they might put a boost to other expansion levels? I want a level 80 paladin to run herald with. If I could buy a level 80 boost then that'd solve it. Is it lazy? Absolutely but I don't like levelling in Warcraft.

    Now swtor that's another story. Have you ever played that? The questing there is fun. I play it very much as a solo game and I just quest and quest. It's a shame that because of the xp reduction they put on f2p accounts that I'm about half a level short of my next planet on my Bounty Hunter. I'm too scared to try dungeons so I'm not too sure how to get up to level 44. Maybe I should just go grind mobs on Belsavius but I just swapped to playing my Jedi Knight instead. Even repeating the quests there doesn't come out the same as the npc's interact with you differently. I did Drummond Kaas on my Bounty Hunter but when I got there on my Sith Warrior they treated me different. Same quests but it didn't feel the same. The quests just feel like they got more story in, like they are more epic and you can choose how to play things out and sometimes these choices come back later. I guess it could be the voice acting, the conversations rather than just read/accept, or the epic class quests which guide your whole journey from planet to planet. I don't know, I'm not saying Warcraft lacks story, just that I don't like questing in it. That's why I'm so intrigued by people that do, I want to know what I'm missing, I want to know how I can like it better so I can level my damn characters without it being a miserable experience. So how can you bear questing in Warcraft?

    1. I find 45-58 the worst part of leveling. It was originally, it was later on when they speed it up, and it still is now even with more speed added to the system. If I can get past that 45-58 hump then I am as good as max level.

      The second "gap" in leveling difficulty is cataclysm. Although I have a nice pattern for it that makes it go smoothly, the fact I need to go back to my main city each level and the zones are all over the place make it horrible.

      I like to level so of course it is easier for me to stick with it. I have a determined mentality about it and set goals. Also being I have done it so often I have patterns which make it easier.

      I don't like the quests, but I do like what they represent. Consistent, dependable rewards. You know what you have to do, what you will get from doing it and if you have done it as many times as I you know how long that will take. It is a much better effort = reward system than the RNG that makes end game the rotting cesspit of shit that it is.

      What it comes down to more than anything else is not that I "like questing" but I like structure, I like format. Questing has that, end game does not.

      It is not lazy. I like questing and I would still use the boost to "whatever" option if it were there. Why not? I do not see them adding one for lesser levels however but I do believe that the boost to 90 will become a shop item at some point.

      Nope, never played swtor. Never had any interest in it either. Sounds like something that as a solo player game, a console game if you will, I would have been interested in it but as an MMO, no thank you.

      I do like what you said, that it can be played as a solo player game. I do find that interesting and I might consider it because of that.


    2. Now to the meat of the reply. (I think I should make a post just about this reply)

      How can I bear questing in warcraft?

      Simple, I get a reward every quest, I feel achievement when I level, I feel like I am moving forward.

      Compare that to what other option I have.

      Wait for an hour and 20 minutes in queue for LFR. Get into a group that is on the last boss when the only reason I queued up was because I wanted something off the first boss, but I stay because I might as well get valor after I waited this long.

      Then we wipe, repeatedly, to bad tanks, bad healers, bad damage dealers. I listen to everyone calling each other bads. I listen to people insulting peoples mothers. I then wait another 30 minutes for another tank all that while having to watch all the toxic community show off their "I'm the baddest of bad asses" attitude to each other.

      I sit there and listen to some jackass talking about how he jacked off in his sisters hair while she was asleep on the couch (I really saw someone say that) and another person talking about how cool they are because they smoke pot and then one more jerk to the pile that keeps talking about how drunk he is and he is still better than anyone there.

      All that for a 120 gold repair bill, no quest item I need, no gear item need it or not, ever, and 3 hours of my life wasted when I only wanted the first boss to begin with.

      Who the hell finds that fun?

      Now I ask you the reverse, how can anyone handle end game?

      In that 3 hours yesterday I went from 58-68 and completed all of outlands. I had the joy of getting my flying, getting levels, getting gear, and even getting an achievement here and there including the nessingwary one.

      So which is the best way to spend those three hours? LFR or actually doing something productive like leveling?

      As you can tell, I got to "at least" 68. And it is a hunter of course, I would never be able to level that fast with any other class. Not even a monk with the buff can beat a hunter when it comes to leveling.

    3. You know how you have said that in Warcraft all the focus is on the end game? I swear I've read that you've said that. That's why the questing experience has been sped up/squished, why it's for racing through, why not many resources are spent on it compared to end game. Well I have yet to reach endgame in swtor. I've played the game on and off since it's release and I haven't got a max level character and I don't care. The levelling experience is so rich and engaging that it's enjoyable, for me at least, as a game in it's own right. To me levelling is the game. I know some people see that in Warcraft but I don't. I do like Warcraft, it's my main game and I'm not going to quit but if I want to enjoy questing I'm going to play swtor.

      I just play it solo, just questing. I do run the dungeons once I really out level them as they are interesting, they are story/quest driven and so I don't want to miss them. I don't want to run them for real either as I play solo. There are no addons in the game but I suspect people still have a way of seeing who does what and I don't know what kind of grasp I have on my character. It's fine for questing, I have my companion to back me up and I don't die that often. How effective I'd be in a group I don't know and I don't want to find out. It's way too much stress. Just questing is fun. The epic class quests which guide the whole experience mean I can play through the game 8x before I would have to repeat an experience. Sure most of the quests aren't class ones but the npc's react to you differently and so they feel different.

      I understand what you mean about the dependable reward. You know I refuse point blank to run LFR, it's why I don't play alts anymore. True there are other ways to play alts so it's more of a psychological block these days. I resent the role LFR has taken in the gearing model. I know that if I truly want to play an alt where I should be going for the best gear and I won't do it. It's turned alts sour for me. I don't understand why people willingly run LFR. I don't see the point in forcing myself to do something I find so miserable. The only endgame I run is normal raids with my guild. I won't even do flex as I seem to have become an elitist. I don't mean it but I can't bring myself to wipe over and over on bosses we one shot on normal, especially as it's a lower difficulty. I guess I've got a low wipe tolerance outside of progression.

      So yeah I do see your point. RNG screws with me on my old standby, mount/pet collecting. I loathe primal eggs, they take an age to drop in the first place, triple or more the average and then it's always red, always. I have a red one, it's the other 2 I need.

      Compared to endgame and collecting levelling does seem rather peaceful. I like dependable. I miss the early days of the game for me where I had all the achievements/reputations to earn. I worked through methodically and got them all. I especially liked the reputation bars, measurable progress.

      I have to admit these days outside of my guild raids I rarely login to Warcraft. If I don't have time for a long gaming session I race around Marvel Heroes. If I do have an hour or so then I'll log swtor and get lost in the immersive story. Each new patch I of course play Warcraft more, until I've got the achievements/reputations and then I lose my goal. I don't have the drive to do more like I used to, not now I've found alternatives which are quite frankly more fun. Is that wrong? You seem to be able to push through and just do it, I envy that ability. Thanks for the long reply. I really was curious so thank you :)

    4. I have said that, the end game is where it at. They just spend too much time making it and not enough time making sure it is enjoyable (read LFR).

      If they put even 10% of the energy into the community as they do into design the game would be a much better place.

      I am in the same place really. I only do things with my guild. Occasionally pick up a raid on open raid but that is the extent of it. I either force myself to do LFR or I level. One I like, one I hate. That is why I choose to level.

    5. There were some studies that said that guys get more dopamine from receiving game rewards than girls. So probably that's why questing feels more appealing to guys. Small rewards every now and again.

      I never got past lvl 14 in swtor, not sure why but I still found questing boring. Started a few alts but meh. Also did a few dungeons. While still okish as solo experience, I could be playing much better games for that so I get all skeptical when questing in mmos.

    6. I can buy that assessment. 99% of the leveling rewards are useless, but at least I am getting something, so it feels good. A dopamine high if you will. I can most definitely believe that.

  2. Anon, Grumpy's former GL:

    I don't think you could hit level cap in a single weekend if you are talking about playing your normal weekend hours. On the other hand, if anyone I know could get to level cap in a single weekend, it would be you. I saw earlier posted you said level 80. I was going to guess 87, but then I know how you have mapped out your leveling patterns and the intensity in which you can go when you set yourself a goal. Even so, 80 ain't bad.

    In regards to leveling, I find leveling my many characters to be the single most fun thing I can do in game. I always have. My patterns are not designed for super efficiency but rather for things I find fun.

    I vary the quests I do with each characters, and I do a lot of gathering--mining and or herbing usually, sometimes skinner. Gathering is an excellent source of experience. It also is a good source of funding for a new character.

    As is well known, there are more quests in a zone than it takes to level out of a zone, so picking and choosing which area to level in and for how long can vary from character to character.

    End game was fun until it became to repetitive. Get gear to kill bosses, kill bosses with new gear, kill bosses until next patch and then rinse and repeat. The endless gear grind as the only method of improvement at end game simply lost it's appeal. If that was all there was for me in WoW, I suppose I would quit.

    Leveling a guild solo on the other hand is a new type of grind, one that takes patience and time. So far my highest level guild is level 7 but that is not bad for part time play of different alts. After all as they level, so does my guild.

    As the server consolidation goes forward and I find out where all my 80 toons wind up, I intend to consolidate my non-primary guild characters into my private guilds. The majority of my characters in our guild will remain there, certainly all the ones I have gotten guild exalted with will remain.

    Even so, that will leave me probably 60-70 toons to work with in my private guilds. That amount of leveling up will level a few guilds up and that is what my current goal in game is.

    1. I didn't take any gathering professions this time around so I am sure that slowed me down some. I too rotate what I like to do but it does seem the game likes to try to funnel everyone into the same zones even if there are other zones you can go to that are for the same level. It is like they want everyone working their way out of stormwind or org.

      I've gotten one guild to 6 and another to 4. I do not make much of an effort to level them but do enjoy that I can when the time comes. Just too much going on in game to have as much time to level them as I would like to.

    2. Anon, Grumpy's former GL:

      lol, check your role playing server guild out, it is 7 now. I moved my character there over to my guild but before I left, I put your guild over the edge for level 7.

    3. Thanks. I'll get back to playing around over there when some boredom sets it sooner or later as you know it will.

  3. Should only take 3 weeks maximum to get 6 secrets or runestones as 2 bosses are guaranteed to drop them each week - Lei Shen and Sha of Pride. (Ra Den does too but that's not quite as accessible)

    1. It should, it doesn't.

      Secrets have no guaranteed drops. I have had a week with 0, as I mentioned above.

      For runestones only lei shen (not counting ra den as it is impossible to get a group for it) is guaranteed. Not sure why people keep saying sha is, I do it every week on my characters that are at that stage and it has never, repeat never dropped from sha.

    2. Got my information from here and it aligned with my experience (and everyone in my guild) - I certain got a secret or runestone 100% from Sha and Lei Shen.

    3. Then I am, without a shadow of a doubt, the unluckiest person in the world. I have killed sha and gotten none on at least 3 occasions now.

      I'll believe "high" drop rate on sha, I can not believe 100% because I know first hand it is not true.

  4. Got my mage up to 89.6 this weekend. It's funny how you say you don't like the Cata leveling. 80-85 was a breeze for me. 85-90 however has been torturous.

    I enjoyed the pandaria content on my hunter. It was fun and I got to use some of my hunter tricks along the way.

    I enjoyed the pandaria content on my blook dk. Round them up and mow them down.

    Doing the pandaria content on my mage felt like leveling my rogue back in vanilla. Having to sit down and eat frequently. Dying when I get attacked by more than a couple of mobs. The only CD to drop aggro is on a long CD and there are no self heals. The frost shield used to work great but in pandaria there are a ton of mobs that can take it out in out shot. Add that to the fact that kiting with a mage is pointless since you can't kill anything while on the move and the elemental pet doesn't tank for you... it's just a pain in the ass.

    I was liking the mage, but I don't like it anymore. Just going to get it to 90 and call it done. I was going to xfer it over to the Gamebreaker guild, but I have no desire to play it anymore so that's out.

    If I get the itch to level another alt, it'll be the druid (feral or guardian) or the warlock most likely.

    Although, Taitrina's comments make me want to go play SWTOR. I haven't played it since beta, but the questing was even fun then when it was still buggy.

    1. 80-85 is a breeze. I have a great pattern for it too but I just do not like it.

      At 80 - Open the underwater zone. When you get to where the quartermaster is you should also hit 81, if not sooner because you are a gatherer.

      At 81 - Go to hyjal, do a few quests, hit 82.

      At 82 - Deepholm time, open it to the point where you at least get the rock guys to not hate you and you will be 83.

      At 83 - Do Uldum until you visit the three people it sends you too. Pick one, do the quests in that one hub, hit 84.

      At 84 - Go to the highlands and open the portal back to stormwind / org. By then you are 85, or within 5 quests of that point. Either do 5 more quests or go fight 5 pet battles and hit 85.

      Cata is super simple to level through, it was even originally before they lowered the experience. It is just it is not enjoyable, it is far stretched out, and it is disconnected from the game. It does not fit and it is not enjoyable.

      Mobs that can grind are great in panda land, mobs like mages, I agree, they have some issues for sure.

      Even with taitrina's stellar recommendation I still have no desire to play star wars. Not sure why, I like the story, like the movies, like the history. I think it is the graphics and their "real life" look. I do not like that.

  5. @grumpy,
    Ugh about that gear dropping on alts that you need on main ,that is one of the main reason i never maintained an alt on par with my main. Sorry guys my main is main char , focus of all my efforts, if you need another healer/tank pug it , but I am not gonna log my alt for progress, rng is as bad as it is on 10man, dont wanna make it worse with splitting the chance with alts.Call me a selfish bastard if you want, but I only have that much sanity to spare to the whims of RNG gods.
    About leveling , I played 5hours on weekend and made it to level 35 on a hunter. Even though I am not as good at playing hunters as you are, I can still see the difference , how they can be one of the fastest levelers.I think only warlocks can compete with them.
    I am really interested in path you take, even though you are alliance,any hints on what you did to blaze through outland in 3 hours will be helpful,58-68 in 3 hours is just mindbogglingly fast.
    I feel the same about leveling vs endgame, I enjoy raiding and rest of the endgame stuff on my main and I dont do lfr on it at all , But when it comes to alts ,I like leveling them, and when I get to endgame I lose all the steam because of all the RNG involved in gearing em up to current level.I had 9 90s on previous server before i moved to new one, but now I am gonna stop at 6 , so that I have each profession maxxed out.

    -straws kazzak-eu

    1. I do it because I like to play. I would want to be on my main, sure, who wouldn't. But if I am playing, killing a few bosses, I am having fun.

      Gear is secondary, important but secondary. I just want to play the game and kill some things so I do not mind being on my alt from time to time. I just hate when it becomes all the time. I am just not as good on them, I do not enjoy playing them as much as I main, so I would rather be on my main.

      I do not have as much experience on a lock so I can not be 100% certain, but I would say even a lock could not hold a candle to a hunter in terms of leveling speed or ease. They do not have as many tools as a hunter does.

      That is where I am too. I like leveling alts and the starting of the gearing process. But it ends there because I hate LFR and give up on it. That is my most of my alts sit around 500 item level now. Only a handful are 540 or better for actual raiding purposes. Of course the hunter, the druid and monk for tanking and the priest and shaman for healing. I will get my lock and rogue there as well, if drops decide to work for me.

    2. I again ask what is the route you take for outlands, I usually quest a bit in hell fire, do the ramparts/furnance couple of times, hit nagarand at 65. But i think there is a faster route than grinding 5mans.
      -straws kazzak-eu

    3. Oh, sorry, forgot the answer that.

      I just did hellfire, the ring of blood, and the nessingwary quest line and a few pet battles and I was done.

      I did cheese it a little as I had one of those 300% potions I got as a drop a few weeks back.

      I ran around doing hellfire quest until I could mount, took about 30 minutes. Bought flying and flew around and did every quest I could, but did not turn it in.

      I filled my quest book up with 25 quests. I did all the quest lines up to the point that I knew the follow up was just "kill this one guy" type quests. I was 61 at that point.

      I was almost 2 hours in at that point. I popped my potion and ran around turning in all the quests and doing the single easy kill that guy follow up. I was half way through 65 at that point.

      I sent my character, from my bank, 10 unidentified plant parts and 10 bog tendril over and headed to zanger marsh.

      I did a few "talk to this person" quests such as the talk to the two tree guys for the buffs and others like that, as I know where they all are. I few around and did those, turned in my 10 unidentified plant parts, nice easy quest experience, and flew over to the sporranger guys and turned in the 10 bog tendrils and collected 10 spore sacs and turned them in as well as that is quick and easy and then I headed off to nagrand almost at 66.

      I did the ring of blood with the last few minutes of my potion and was just a hair from 67 when it ran out.

      I did the nessingwary quest line which bought me to 80% and few over the shadowmoon to do the pet battle there and 5 more quests and hit 68.

      The key was the planning of the 300% potion. I only had one, so that was when I decided to use it and it worked perfectly. Always make sure to have 25 already completed quests in your book when you use it. I might go farm for some more of those, but they are rare drops and it is not really needed. It would have only taken my 5 hours instead of 3 even without it.

  6. What spec do you level your hunters on? My hunter is sitting at 81st level, but he's hella dull. MM hunters one-shot anything at that level which is efficient, I guess, but it's a long cry from my days in vanilla Searing Gorge where I learnt to CC, kite, jumpshot and had fine control on my pet.
    These days, the pet doesn't even reach the mob.

    1. Depends on the mood I am in really. All three specs are viable for leveling, most seem to still suggest BM.

      However, I say survival. Most things die before your pet even gets to it, so pet damage does not matter so BM does not matter. For the harder mini end quest bosses as survival your pet will still survive long enough and with the combination of explosive shot porcs and thrill of the hunt arcanes, not even the most burly of burly quest mobs will live longer than 20 seconds at max.

      Think that big dog in shadowmoon, one of the only elites quest mobs left in the game. I walked in and spanked the crap of it with no worry. Pet died as he died, but if I had the mend pet glyph in not even that would have happened. SV is the way to go for speed leveling. Kill it before the pet even gets there.

  7. I've been doing some completely heirloom-free leveling myself lately (since RAF came back, I'm doing some ghetto dual-boxing) and I still enjoy it as a casual activity... and I'm not sure what's changed but warriors are hitting a lot harder at lower levels than they used to. I may have to remove them from the "most annoying classes to level" list if that continues to anywhere near max level.

    I had a few issues with players rounding up mobs in the area that I needed (most were at my level, though, not slumming 90s) but nothing significant and I can generally play around them. What did piss me off regularly was quest mobs with long respawn timers, Outlands seems particularly bad for that, I didn't notice it too often until I went out there. Some mobs appear to be on 15m respawn timers, we'd have 4 or 5 players lined up to take it out, if same faction we'd group up and wait and too often when the mob spawned it was a stealthed rogue we didn't even know was there who'd tag it. Griefing or just annoying and on the quest? Who knows... but 15m respawns have to go away in a fast leveling CRZ world. 2 minutes is too long, IMO.

    Other than that, though, I've been enjoying the leveling... as you say, the near constant rewards and levels are a nice indication that you're progressing, something that you don't get to anywhere near the same extent at max level. Getting a toon from i540 to i550 can take a month without really increasing character power significantly, not like getting your first weapon once you hit Northrend.

    1. Rogues are still the worst to level in my opinion, warriors are # 2. Who would think you could be that squishy in plate.

      Outlands end of quest mobs are amazingly slow to respawn. I wish they would update them to be at least on a 2 minute timers, not a get up and make some food 15 minute timer. And make them shared.

      Leveling is rewarding, it is why I like it.

    2. I had warriors, rogues and pallies on my list as the worst 3. I haven't leveled a pally in a few years but I've also been leveling a rogue and that experience isn't too bad these days, especially with heirloom weapons... but hits a bit of a wall at 85. When I'm leveling I tend to only use basic rotation buttons, though, I don't often use cooldowns, offensive or defensive, so as pointed out by @Josef below that definitely impacts the "ease"... using those would definitely make things "easier" (and also more complex, which isn't really a trade-off I can make while leveling, I tend to watch TV while leveling which isn't compatible with things like stealth, interrupts, etc, that require you to actually pay attention).

      I expect pallies are more enjoyable, too, especially with the recent changes to Inquisition (doesn't quite chain the way Deadly Momentum does but it's not too far off), at least once you GET that... no clue when it shows up.

      In fact, at this point druids may be alone on that list... new to it and now the worst of the bunch. Stupid class. Whoever their druid designer is over at Blizz needs to be forcefully encouraged to find a new job.

    3. I tend to just do basic rotations as well while leveling and that is why rogues are not fun, you can not get by with basic unless you really over gear stuff.

      Druid leveling 101

      Step 1: Level as a bear
      Step 2: Pull entire zone.
      Step 3: Hit cooldowns.
      Step 4: ?????
      Step 5: Profit

      Druids, with the ability to stealth, tank, heal, speed boost, etc, all in guardian, make them probably one of the easiest classes to level in the game. Top 3 at least.

  8. Deadly Momentum and Redirect glyphs, Burst of Speed, Leeching Poison and Nightstalker talents - Rogue levelling is awesome! We hardly take any damage thanks to Dismantle, or Smoke Bomb, or Cloak of Shadows, or Evasion, or Combat Readiness. We have three interrupts if we need them in Kick, Gouge or Blind. We have two forms of crowd control in Sap and Blind. We heal quickly through Recuperate and Leeching Poison. And when things get messy, there's always Vanish.

    How on earth could you not like Rogue levelling when they're clearly so awesome?
    (Add in Marked for Death to the above when you hit max level, and places like the Timeless Isle of Thunder (tm) are made of exploding loot pinatas)

    1. And I even forgot to mention Cheap Shot and Kidney Shot, which are sweet on their own for damage reduction or control or interrupts; but when combined with Prey on the Weak just gets ridiculous bonus damage as well.

    2. I hate rogue leveling. One on one I will destroy a target but two mobs or more and I am taking a dirt nap. Partly because of lesser skill playing one and partly because rogues are more squishy than clothies.

      When you are used to playing characters like a hunter and tank classes that can pull 20 mobs at a time and you have to move to the one at a time rogue leveling method, it shows how far behind the curve a rogue is when it comes to leveling.

      Like I said, one on one they are awesome but for leveling, when talking about speed and ease, they are down at the bottom of the totem pole.

  9. Wow, I started a new one on Friday, boomkin, which I've never done. Loving her, she kicks butt in dungeons and bgs. I did about 8 hours on her Friday, Monday, and Tuesday each and only hit 52. Wish I knew how you do it :) Although the hint of pulling 20 at at time explains a bit. Do you ever do dungeons when leveling? They always seem to give me a lot of xp. I tend to do the Kalimdor side of things now while leveling, I've done the sw/eastern side too many times. Thanks for the couple of quick pointers about cata and outland. And I too hate the 45-58 range - it seems the most boring and drawn out.

    1. I don't PvP, that is part of it. ;)

      I also would not touch a dungeon with a 10 foot pole. It is only good if you have full rested (which I never do) and you have never done the quests. So full rested, once each, if anything. Otherwise stay away, they are not good experience at all.

      I quest and quest only. I kill everything in my path to and from all quest objectives. I never stop moving. That is basically how I do it.

      I also have an addon that shows me where all the old rares are and I go out of my way to get to them if they are up. They are worth sometimes as much as a 1/4 of a level experience at lower levels and even a tenth at higher levels. So they are worth going out of your way to kill them.

      I've actually gotten a level once because I ran into three rares in the same area, killed all three, got a level in a matter of 2 minutes. Download silver dragon. A leveler can not live without it.

    2. Thank you for the pointers. I use NPC Scan and the overlay add-on for it that shows on the map where the rates typically are. I too go out of my way to kill them.

    3. You're welcome.

      I like silver dragon better. NPC scan needs you to dump your cache, silver dragon doesn't. So it is better. I do use NPC scan over lay however with my silver dragon up. I disable the NPC scan itself.

      Although for a funny story I left it on one of my new characters by accident and when it found something and made the sound it scared the ever living crap out of me.