The title might hard to swallow. How could I like something and not want to see it again. I can most definitely see why people might consider it weird that I would even suggest something like not wanting to see something in game that I really liked. But like it or not, there are some things in the game I really hope do not follow us forward. Maybe after you see what I post you will understand better why I do not want to see these things moving forward and maybe you too might say, now I get it, and have something you liked about the game you would be happy to see not follow us forward.
Herbs and Ore For All:
What I liked about it:
What is there not to like about it really. I could not even imagine the countless hours I spent out in the world farming materials for raid, for friends, for profit, what have you, in the past, it was a pretty big part of my game, time wise. I used to spend near full days on weekends on my miner or herbalist gathering my heart out.
I loved the idea that I could just cycle through my characters now and get all the ore I could ever want and all the herbs I could ever imagine to have. Thing is I have not picked from my garden or mine on any of my characters in months and I still have thousands of each.
Why I do not want to see it again:
And that is the problem. They flooded us with them. Not that I really mind having all those supplies and never needing to go farm them but that is part of the problem. Farming them, like it or not, was content. It gave me something to do as silly as that might sound. Having them right there with no competition in your own little world whether you are a miner or an herbalist or neither flooded the market and made them worthless. It also gave the feeling, at least for me, that I "had to" do it each day where in the past I farmed when I wanted to farm, not when I "had to" farm or I would lose a days production.
In the future:
If they decide to do something like garrisons again I would not mind if my miners had the mine and my herbalists had the garden but for everyone else without those professions they should just be decorative. Giving us some without competition or any major effort is fine and dandy, giving us thousands was too much. People should have to go out to gather.
Professions at Level 1:
What I liked about it:
I took advantage of it to switch a couple of characters professions. I usually level with 2 gathering professions and then power level the profession(s) I want on them when they hit max level. This expansion I did not need to worry about that. I could craft everything at level 1. The skill of my crafter did not matter at all. I could make everything and level my profession in the process, or not level them at all, because level did not matter.
Why I do not want to see it again:
I feel it completely devalued professions as a whole if any tom dick or harry could switch to a profession and craft the same things as someone who actually worked to level their profession. It is not a case of "I worked hard to level so you should have to as well". It is a case of you can switch professions whenever you want and there is no downside. Professions mean nothing like this.
I could make my hunter an engineer, make the gun and level it up to max level, switch to leather working, make a belt and level it up to max level, then switch to inscription to make myself a trinket and level it up to max level before going back to whatever profession I feel like walking around with. Sure, it sounds awesome to do that, but it completely devalues professions which I do not like.
In the future:
What I would like to see are some things being something you can catch up with. Like the lower item level stuff and the reroll items. Those are fine for level 1. Also the daily cooldown I have no problem with being level 1 to do it. As it stands in game now you could level your profession with just the things I mentioned, and I am fine with that, but the max level gear should be for max level crafters. Or at least crafters with a professions level that is in that expansions range. Which means for any of the gear this expansion someone should have needed to be 600 skill level to make it. Make it low, yes, but low for the expansion, not low over all.
Bring Grounded:
What I liked about it:
It made the world seem a lot larger than it really is. On my main, while I did not like it I could easily kill most things easily, sometimes in one shot and now at this gear level sometimes without even attacking it because my pet will one shot it. As much as I hate being grounded I'll admit finding all the special places was fun, finding ways to get places you know you were not intended to go was also fun. There was some game play to be had with being grounded.
Why I do not want to see it again:
But it got boring fast, really fast. It got frustrating, even faster. And on alts it was even worse. While my main was fine killing anything that got in the way my alts were not always as lucky. Even more so if I happened to make the mistake of being in healing spec, like on my shaman, and get dismounted as a train of mobs catch up to me and murder me. Is this fun game play? Not in my universe.
Not to mention what was lost, in terms of content that is better with flying, that content greatly outweighed the fun I might have had for a short time exploring on my main. Flying around and then running to pet battle dailies, going from flight point to flight point and then having to run for archaeology digs, etc, are all better with flying. Without flying they come off as time sinks, with flying they come off as content. How things feel really matters and they feel better with flight.
In the future:
I would like to see something like pathfinder added when the expansion lands. Something as simple as explore all areas and do all quests. Maybe, just maybe, add the new reputations. But that is it. It should not ever require more work then seeing the entire world and doing all the quests. Because after that is all done there is no logical reason to keep someone grounded. Being account wide at the lowest level, as they are doing this expansion, will be a huge plus and make it even better. But I would be content if it were just account wide at max level and you have to stay grounded when leveling.
Garrisons:
What I liked about it:
I really like having a place to call my own. It makes me feel like I am really a part of the world. I own a piece of it, or at least control it. It was a great addition to the game and really seemed to capture what we, as characters, have been building up to. For so long we have been the killers of the big bads and we never had a place to call home. It might not be player housing, but from a feeling standpoint, it was. My garrison is my home.
Why I do not want to see it again:
It was a good idea poorly implemented. It was mandatory, even if we were told it wasn't. Leveling followers was fine the first time, even the second and maybe even the third, but on alts it got really tired really fast having to level them again on a new character.
The content was also not finished and I do not want to see them release "great" ideas that they did not finish. There should have been options for different buildings race wise, different layouts landscape wise, and maybe even different locations like they suggested was the original intention. Garrisons, for a much as I might have liked them, seemed unfinished, which left them feeling more meh, when all was said and done.
In the future:
A smaller parcel of land would be fine, something we can customize with a few buildings, maybe a few shops, and I love the idea of collecting stuff to build an auction house. Have the call board as a central hub to offer quests from for your personal home but have it be completely optional, as it was originally advertised as. Maybe some more customization as time goes on to turn it into personal housing instead of a garrison.
Jumping Puzzles:
What I liked about it:
I did them all on beta before there were any addons, before there were any guides, I and a friend found them all our own and figured out how to get them all on our own and it was great fun. Even when it went live and I needed to do it all again I still had a lot of fun with it. The fun was showing everyone in guild how to get them, even more so the ones in Nagrand that were a lot more involved. It was really fun the first (two) time around.
Why I do not want to see it again:
Doing them on my alts however, was not. I knew how to get to them, done it twice already. But it was one of those been there done that sort of things. Jumping puzzles have no repeatability. None what so ever. It is fun finding them and figuring them out. It is not fun doing it over and over again. And it loses any fun it might have had for some people with addons and guides. Figuring it out was the fun part. Doing it was not. This is not that type of game and there is no need to add more stuff like this in it. At least not lots of it. One or two per zone would be fine, anything more is overkill.
In the future:
Keep the treasures in game. Keep the platform game aspect out of it. Stuff on the ground, fine, it is fun to find goodies laying around. On top of a building you need to jump from another to get to, maybe, it is fun getting stuff like that because it only takes a few seconds and, you know, goodies. Running all over creation to get to a kite to fly to the treasure and then you might miss it, definitely not fun and even less fun when you go through all that trouble for 14 garrison resources. I never want to see stuff like that in game again. If I want to jump around like an idiot I will go play nintendo.
New Character Models:
What I liked about it:
Tauren females. No really, I do like the way they turned out as well as many others. But over all there is nothing I liked about them. Some look great, some look a little weird, odd or changed in a bad way, but new graphics are always nice either way even if they were not entirely needed in my opinion. But I do like them.
Why I do not want to see it again:
I do want to see stuff like this again. Not upgrades themselves but what I do not want to see is it being used a selling point for an expansion again, calling it a feature, something that is part of the expansion package, something I am paying for being there instead of other content I would have preferred. I do not want them to pack it up like content like this did this time around.
Graphic updates should be covered in our monthly fees, they are general game maintenance, it should not be used as a selling point for an expansion as if it is something special because it is not. We pay a fee monthly for a game to be accessible and upgraded. We should never have changes like this packaged as content so they can say an expansion has more content than it really does. I am not against changes like this coming, I welcome them but I am against them causing our expansion price to raise what we pay for it. We pay for stuff like this monthly and it is graphical update. It is not content and it is not a selling point for a new expansion.
In the future:
If they make graphical updates, just add them as they make them. Do not want until you have a lot and bundle it as new content. It is not. I would like to see upgrades to the graphics more often, I just don't want us to have to wait for it until they have a bunch of it to release all at once and call it content. We pay monthly, we should be seeing upgrades to the game monthly. Graphic updates fit perfectly in that category of something they can update and release a little at a time.
Randomized Upgrades:
What I liked about it:
When the first follower I ever got on my druid, the one you get when learning about followers, turned out to be purple I was excited. Whenever I clicked to finish a quest I knew rewarded a follower I would be staring at the screen saying "upgrade, upgrade, upgrade" over and over, as if me saying that might actually help the RNG. Hint, it doesn't, but I still do it. Getting an upgraded follower that should be common but comes rare or epic was awesome. Getting a quest reward that is supposed to be 610 that gets the epic upgrade treatment and turns 640 is a great starting piece for when you first hit 100. Having things randomly upgrade feels awesome, what is there not to like about it?
Why I do not want to see it again:
After getting an upgraded follower, for example, on one character it always feels like a let down on all the others. When my druid got an epic of the first follower it felt awesome but each and every other character that I bought over to draenor that did not get that first follower epic felt like a let down. It felt as if I was starting from behind. Sure I understand I got lucky, sure I understand it is only a bonus on that character that got it, but once I got it on one each and every other character that did not get it felt like a let down. In the grand scheme of things I would rather the follower be whatever the follower is than have one out of 20 feel like it got lucky and 19 out of 20 feel like they got screwed.
In the future:
Some things work as random, other things do not. I wish blizzard would realize the impact that random has on people. While getting them feels good, not getting them feels worse, and in the grand scheme of things you will not get it a hell of a lot more often than you will get it. I do not want to see anything like this in the future, in any aspect what so ever. The joy I felt on my druid can not ever be worth the feeling of being let down on every other character that followed after.
How about you?
Now that you see what I am talking about, is there something you really liked in warlords you are hoping blizzard never does again?
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"It was a good idea poorly implemented." This line should be carved on the headstone of WoD's grave.
ReplyDeleteAll they had to do with Garrisons and Followers to remove the frustration was make them Account-wide per faction, and limit access to the Mine and Herb Garden to Miners and Herbalists (or Followers with those traits). Then they would be a positive addition to the game, not a time and gold sink.
The other items you raise you summarise perfectly, I have nothing to add.
That line does sum up warlords as a whole. I will stick with what I said when I first heard it announced. Warlords would make for a really cool alternate reality raid in the caverns of time, it is not expansion material.
DeleteIf they had went that way and created an alternate reality based expansion where the dungeons and raids and etc were these different things, and the main story was us tracking down and stopping the dragons doing this, it could have worked. But to keep us in one of those instances for an entire expansion was too much.
Garrisons being account wide would have made them much better. Without a doubt much better.
"It was a good idea poorly implemented." This line should be carved on the headstone of WoD's grave."
DeleteVery true and also frustrating. Because you can see the glimmers of a good idea in there but it just went awry.
@Grumpy
I agree, a great caverns of times storyline, or even raid, but not standalone expansion.
There were a lot of glimmers of something great in warlords, do not get me wrong. It had potential. I think will be the saddest part looking back on things, wasted potential.
DeleteAnon, Grumpy's former Guild Leader:
ReplyDeleteHerbs and Ore For All: for sure and certain never again...I love gathering out in the wild instead.
Professions at Level 1: makes a mockery of the idea of having professions in the first place, so no I did not like it in WoD and even more certainly I hope this model is abandoned going forward.
Bring Grounded: I hated it. The Cata model is the one I favor and one that the game should be revised to emulate going forward.
Garrisons: I liked the idea and the fact is that the garrison is my characters home hence forth is perfectly fine with me. More customization in the future would be appreciated, especially as time and expansions pass giving even more of a home like feel to the place.
Jumping Puzzles: I suck at jumping puzzles, so can't say I really enjoy them as a main feature...or even as a side show feature, but hey I am a tolerant person, so if others enjoy them, fine...just don't make them to mandatory in any sense of the word.
New Character Models: I agree with you 100% on this. Not a selling point feature but rather should be periodically incorporated into whatever number patch happening to be available.
Randomized Upgrades: I enjoyed this when I first saw it and to be honest, with my multitude of alts in level range of WoD, it probably will remain a favorite of mine as I slowly level them through Draenor. Random here does not bother me to terrible much, but then again I have always been a lot luckier than you, so yea...I see your point even if it never seems to affect me as much (despite my two year hunt for the Jeeves pattern).
I still can not believe it took you so many years of actively farming for it to get jeeves. Everyone else usually got it on their first flame leviathan kill, or killing some robot gnomes. You proved that the only way to make sure FL does not drop it is to have you engineer it. That is unlucky in my proportions. For you it was rare, the exception, for me it is closer to the rule sometimes it seems.
DeleteAnon, Grumpy's former Guild Leader:
ReplyDeleteLOL, oh my luck with that priest/engineer is continuing. I don't make a big deal of it like I did when I was more active and seeking on my near endless quest for the Jeeves pattern, but the end boss of Gnomeregan has a particular pattern that I want. I have been running it since I was still guild leader. Well over 90% of the time I log onto that character I run it. I am still running it...with no end in sight. Bad part is, I keep seeing the schematic on the Auction House and while well over priced for the value of the thing in terms of use, it is still well within range of that toon's finances. I just don't want to buy it, I want it to drop. And of such, content is made...
Some things just always seem to elude people, I guess those patterns are your bane.
DeleteThere is a common theme through most of the topics brought up, in my opinion. Most of these topics/issues were changed in WoD in such a way that devalues expertise and experience.
ReplyDeleteProfessions - This is clearly the most blatant and self explanatory. Skill level has absolutely no impact on the game play of a profession. At least when you are herbing and mining at low skill level you get scraps which scale up in number until you are harvesting the full item or even multiple ore or herbs. The crafting professions show absolutely no growth or evolution of the gameplay as skill level rises. There is the change to jewelcrafting we saw in 6.2 (more on this later)
RNGeesus - A lot of people have bemoaned the over reliance on RNG this expansion. If you remember Blizzcon when WoD was announced, they made a big deal about how these random upgrade procs and RNG reward are these "exciting moments." I think their analysis was based on a myopic view of the experience. Since the beginning, droprates for items from world bosses, raids, and dungeons were always low, some extraordinarily low like mounts (Ashes of 214 kills to drop the *%)@$ Alar). They mistook this excitement as engaging gameplay instead of what it really is, RELIEF. Relief that you don't have to roll the dice again, don't have to repeat something you've done dozens or even literally hundreds of times, don't have to fly I mean run to that boss/raid/etc. Sure, its nice to get what you want, but primarily its the joy of not having another negative experience. Because in the end, you are not an agent in the decision, the RNG is. The only thing you can do is run back to that slot machine, pull the lever and hope. When the chances you win are less than 50%, that means more than half the time you have a "feel bad" moment. When you aren't in control in any manner, and you fail. Its frustrating. Blizz has mistaken the joy of not feeling that frustration for fun gameplay. Imho, it just isn't.
Jumping Puzzles - As you stated Grumpy, there is NO replay value for this content. Why? Because there's no benefit, no gain to being more skilled, knowing more about the puzzle. Once you know what to jump on and to, the puzzle is over. Its not a puzzle, it is simply an action to be done.
Garrisons - Where does expertise matter in garrison life? There was some very shallow expertise benefit in the choices of which garrison buildings you want. But like the jumping puzzle, once you've figured out what the most beneficial setup for your gameplay, you set the buildings and just run the rounds of mine, herbs, work orders etc.
Follower/Naval Missions - Two complicated minigames with no engagement or meaning. Find the mathematically best combination of followers/ships and equipment + time = reward. There's no story, no gameplay, no engagement. The only reward is literally the payoff of gold/equipment/resources, but certainly not fun. As a result, it became "how do I maximize the return? Send out as many as possible." But nothing more, and that is exactly WHY Garrison Mission Manager was such a huge hit and considered necessity by the time 6.2 rolled around. This is not fun, lets have this addon do the math and let us be on our way.
Herbs/Ore - The rewards from these professions were integrally linked to experience. Knowing where the nodes were, relative value, general volume of gatherers at specific locations and times of day/week, route you are going to take. You'd think it was just another jumping puzzle, but all of these factors, time/day/relative value/density of nodes, made for some gameplay. Adapting your route, targeted resource, when to farm and when not to, all changed the # of gathered and minor tweaks, modifications based on experience you can see that # rise dramatically. That gameplay was reduced to a very basic inhouse routine that never changed.
Give me back benefits from learning your game, Blizzard. Give me back a reason to be an expert on a topic.
You hit so many nails on the head here.
DeleteThe two that stand out to me today are RNG (because it always drives me crazy) and the Follower missions. What bothers me about that is I so rarely read the "story" of the mission anymore. We burn through so many missions, they have no story and it really is just a matching game now. Do I have 2 of this and 1 of that? Okay, then I can win. Why am I doing it? to get the reward. That's it.
Do naval missions even have stories?
@Thuggs
DeleteVery good break down on it. Never thought of it as them removing the need for expertise or experience was the issue with those things but as you explain it, it does make sense. Basically it took the game play out of playing the game.
@Casually Odd
Of course navel missions have stories. They just happen to be really fast and you can read them in one second when doing the missions.
I think of the story of naval missions like the bazooka joe comics that used to come around the bubble gum. (if you do not remember those, they were really really short stories.)
Addendum to Professions - Not only did they devalue them and the ranks you've paid for and trained up, they introduced both RNG AND GATING for jewel crafting!!!!!! So now my inactive tank alt can't get certain gem cuts because of the content they are gated behind. Ever try to get to rank 6 in brawlers guild (I mean dps challenges)? Ever try to get into an LFR you don't have the item level for on a toon you have no interest in raiding with or gearing up to get a single pattern? Then once you do obtain these patterns (the ones that you can obtain), you have to run to some vendor to have another RNG chance to actually get the profession pattern so you can make the gem by asking this vendor to make you the gem? Whaaaa the hell?
ReplyDeleteThis isn't fun. Its busy work.
Lets be reminded what fun looks like. There are these zandalari scouts and warbringers that are difficult (they were) have some interesting mechanics and offer some really great rewards for that effort, skill in handling their abilities.
Looking for an efficient way of producing highly sought after gems in volume for the AH game. Learning how golden lotus could transform uncommon gems to rare, how mass prospecting ghost iron ore produces tons of uncommon and you can use your farm to reliably produce golden lotus, and by understanding the market, the costs of each raw material you could mass produce profitable items. This was based on skill and expertise to learn all the component parts to see the opportunity, not gated behind a bloody daily cooldown that punishes the weekend warriors.
Seeing a story develop in stages, engage and evolve before you as you do your dailies. 6.1 anyone?
These are all activities where your engagement and experience enhanced the rewards and gameplay without some arbitrary gate stopping you dead in the tracks for improving your rewards from diligence, effort, and creativity.
@Thuggs
DeleteAmen, dude! The changes to JC are beyond terrible, for all the reasons you cite. I still have only 4 of the 6 recipes, and all of them have to be made by the robot. After producing 12 gems, I have yet to receive one of the RNG- dependent patterns that would allow me to produce them myself.
My fear is that Blizz is using JCs as guinea pigs for what they will do with all crafting professions in the next expansion. They started doing this in a small way in 6.1 when they made crafting recipes not available through a trainer but rather from a rotating visiting vendor. I really think they intend for the current JC methodology to be the next profession mechanic.
Yeah, I hate that my alts that were made just for profession mules need to do things that they never had intention to do to get patterns.
DeleteBut it is not the first time they did that. Last expansion you needed to farm spirits on your alts, before that you needed to do dungeons for chaos orbs on your alts. My leather worker is my rogue and if you read here you know I am not very good on it. So I have been "forced" to play it every expansion if I wanted to make stuff for my hunter.
So the idea is not new, it is just the first time JC needed to deal with it. But this is something they always did and something I never liked.
Being grounded didn't work for me. I agree with Anon above. I am the kind of person that will explore slowly on foot when I'm in the mood so being forced to the ground bothered me. I'm also beginning to wonder if I colored my entire perception of Draenor. Not as a larger place but as a more confined place.
ReplyDeleteAlso, while I do understand the disappointment of not getting the upgrade, I am not as averse to it as you are. It is a nice bonus but not vital. That said, I don't think I'd be sad if it disappeared.
Overall I agree with your ideas. I think the big thing for me is not that they should just scrap these ideas (except for reliance on RNG and being grounded) but that they should look critically at what worked and what didn't and rebuild from there.
I know they can do this. They can take an old system like mounts and make it better. They improved storage (before they filled it with crap gain). They've done it before and I'm sure if they put the effort into it they could make each and everyone of those things better. And that's what I'd like to see.
I never minded being grounded while leveling. Would I prefer to have flying from the start? Absolutely. But it is not a deal breaker for me if I don't. I do want flight at max level however.
DeleteThe RNG issue is something I could write a weeks worth of posts about all on its own. I hate it, always hated it and always will hate it. It is a lazy way to design a game and an even lazier way to build a reward system based around. It is a cheap way out.
Not having to gather/Access to more Professions
ReplyDeleteLoved it, its nice to know you are making progress on a profession or Epic even if you don’t have time to play. Followers and Small buildings added a lot early on gave me more access to engineering perks and other professions I did not have. They reduced the need to level an alt to be self sufficient.
Hated that the crafting matt economy was utterly destroyed by this. They removed any incentive to go out an farm, I loved that matts were cheap and plentiful, but hated that they were free.
In the future I would like there to be no gathering professions and instead two crafting professions. I love playing my blacksmith and getting herbs for my Alchemist. Just like I loved playing my enchanter and sending ore to my Jewelcrafter. I would also want to keep the follower crafting/alt crafting option, where I login, see my alt where they logged out at talk to them to craft what I need.
YO DAWG WE HEARD YOU LIKE REALMS, SO WE PUT REALMS IN YOUR REALMS TO SWITCH REALMS.
6.1 will go down as a ‘historical’ content patch. For the first time Blizzard found a way to remove content and market it as new content. The 6.1 Garrison quests started a zone trend that shrunk Dreanor more than flying could ever hope. Players, who’s garrison was the sole alliance outpost in the story line, were entering other players garrisons for quests.
By 6.2 Looking for group was being used to realm hop, to hunt rares, elites and anything else on a spawn timer. Dreanor was the first world where I, and many others did not think of zone as a physical space and instead as a server architecture.
Yes this was convent but extremely disjointing, and I would not mind realm swaps to only occur if the party leader within the current zone.
Garrisons
I loved having my own space customized by me, it was convenient, profitable, and greatly rewarding for any time and effort put into it.
When there is “One” of something it really, really need to be just one. Every character having their own Garrison was a huge flaw, it caused alt burn out, it crashed the economy, it made a boring expansion.
Shared player spaces is something I would love to see. A capital city/cities where a guild hall would be great. Where guild bonus work orders could be completed, a portal/gate set to the content you are running ectra. Player property should be by guild or by server/account. I would have loved to have shared my garrison with my alts rather than them grind their way thru Crisis on Infinite Draenor. Imagine a garrison where your alt is your enchanting follower, and when you disenchant un-needed gear you can tell them to just keep the mats.
Free Rewards Beyond my Level
DeleteFollower/Harbor mission giving rewards gave me some great gear. In the BRF case I got a Heroic tanking trinket from a boss we never got down, it was a huge upgrade.
But I am struggling to get any, ANY upgrades out of HFC, I out gear progression content for my guild.
I don’t know how else to say this, LFR rewards for LFR content, normal rewards normal. It’s a great tool for bad luck or bad progression. But devalues loot from bosses you do down. Valor gear did this better, it was two weeks to save for a piece of gear, it was always an upgrade and never “out classed the next raid”.
“Story Telling”
Was great when leveling, and was pretty good as part of the garrison campaign, and average in the Raids.
No story telling was done thru Dailies, Dungeons or Scenarios. Content is just missing from the game, dailies are a choose how you will help the front style but, go into no story, no back ground and do not add to the game. They just became mob grinds, and with no worthwhile gear rewards behind the faction rep there was little reason to do them until 6.2.
“Scaled Content”
Old is new again with Time Walker, and blizzard did a lot of tweaking to make these dungeons seem relevant again if only for one weekend a month.
Old content isn’t the only thing getting new life blown into it however. Current dungeons are as well in the form of “Mythic Dungeons”. Yes there was the problem in WotLK thru MoP of Dungeons becoming increasingly easier while the rewards became increasingly powerful because of valor. Maybe we should scaled back gear in dungeons, but that does not preclude blizzard from making new five man content, which was the cost of Mythic Dungeons.
We need to return to Cataclysm, when it comes to dungeons. 4.0 had more dungeons than this entire expansion. Cata had the same number of dungeons as the last TWO expansions COMBINED. There were three levels of heroic dungeons, each with their own scaled difficulty and rewards. And they were different content. The current dungeon difficulty does not even justify a proving ground, the five man content needs a major overhaul.
“Faith” in Blizzard
I happily paid more than I ever had for this expansion, hell it even felt like a deal at the time with a boosted character for just ten bucks. I even took a couple days off at release to “vacation in Draenor”. WoW had the biggest team for development in its history, and I had hopes for a great expansion. My guild was abuzz with returning players.
I won’t do that again, outside of questing every part of this expansion has had issues. It took 8 months for a real content patch to come out and it will likely be the only one of the expansion. I have the feeling this time around that I have never “paid more for less” in the game, and don’t feel like shelling out 50 bucks the next time around up front. 8 months for the largest team in WoWs history to come up with a content patch…. Blizzard has entered into a cycle of stating they can’t work on current content because the teams are working on future content, only for that future content to turn out to be….. not that much content. As a consumer and as product being marketed less as a game and more as a service there is an easy solution.
Mobil phone plans like JUMP! have you pay a monthly fee toward your next phone which is always free. I would like to pay for the next expansion over the “life” of the next expansion, and that means a 2 year time line with firm dates for content patches, raid release to be published at launch. I think the best way for the consumer to receive the type of content they are marketing is for the payment plan to match. 40 dollars of content over 20 months, well that a 2 dollar per month payment added to the subscription cost, keep me interested to keep me paying.
Seems like you added a few that did not pop into my mind. I did not mind some of the ones you mentioned however. Like getting mythic after I have killed xx heroic actually made sense to me. If I killed that many heroic I probably do not need any heroic gear, so it was a nice little way to feel like I still had a chance at an upgrade. If anything I wish it were expanded, so if my main is getting mythic, all my characters do. But that is just me being greedy. :P
DeleteHerbalism died as a profession in this expansion. There was absolutely no reason to have an herbalist. We lost the little profession buff, and all my characters could now pick what ever herb they needed. My warlock was a herbalist since vanilla and I rerolled him as a tailor simply to make more upgraded gear pieces for my priest. And as you stated, he was immediately making max level pieces. The only drawback was the fact that he made _less_ hexweave with each turn. At least in MOP, I could plant cactus and get cloth for my tailor... :) Or if I caught the right vendor, magical gems that would give me on-use teleports to major locations.
ReplyDeleteGarrisons were badly implemented. It's my personal area, but with absolutely no personalization options, outside of where I wanted a few buildings. How about changing out the building types to match my toon's class. I'd loved to see troll or BElf buildings. How about the option of enabling holiday decorations? I am not asking for a SIMs level of customization, but calling the garrison _MY_ space is ludicrous. This like calling my cubicle work my space.
Jumping puzzles - yes fun, yes annoying, and agreed, really annoying for only a handful garrison resources. How about an escalating amount of reward for my effort to get there. If it's laying on the ground like an easter egg, reward minimal. If I need to spend 10 minutes fighting mobs and running a gauntlet to get to the kite to fly there, at least reward me an limited-use toy, or a green BOE that I can sell for gold.
Randomized upgrades are awesome.. But here I am (late to the heroic dungeon scene) running my heroic dungeons finally and I keep getting awesome 630 ilevel gear, when my average gear score is 660. Yeah, all totally useless except for disenchanting mats. How about (*like holidays*) that the random gear gods grant gear appropriate for my current gear level? At least have it start at one below (say 650) with boosts up to 665/670. (or bring back valor points).
Being Grounded.. Sure, I felt like I cheated in Cata grabbing the old world flying license day one of the expac. Sure it allowed me to bypass the 'bad stuff' when leveling up.. But still not having it? Irritating. BC and Wrath both gave you the opportunity when you reached a certain point in the quest chain. Usually you'd be at or almost max level. DING you found Dalaran, get your cold weather flying (for an outrageous amount of gold!)!
Personally, I'd like to see Garrisons gone completely from the game. It's a phased area that I have very little control over. I can see people talking about stuff in General chat, but I can't see them. There's a million reasons to logon to my garrison (herb garden, mine, missions/followers, professions), but I can get most of this in a major town. Was the phased farm in MoP that bad? Sure WPVP suffered, but garrisons fixed that? Unlike my gear, mounts, pets and toys from this expac, my garrison is going to stay in WoD. I won't be able to go back to it for anything useful. My followers won't actually follow me... I'll be a lone warlock (and his minions) starting over in a new land. Hey, can I sell my garrison to the Frostwolves when I move out?? I'd like to see a nice ROI.
Gating Heroic Dungeons behind Proving Grounds. As Sweet Brown best said it, I "aint got time for that".
No toys that aren't actually toys though. Those drive me crazy.
Delete"Here's the awesome new toys tab to clear up space."
Great!
"Okay, and here are some non-toys that work exactly like toys but aren't."
...
It all comes down to Garrisons for me. WoD made the outside world irrelevant. If Blizzard brings back elements of garrisons for future xpacs, I'd like them to do the following... My opinion, of course...
ReplyDelete1) To get players back out in the world, or at least in the major cities, future garrisons should not have training dummies, auction house, bank/guild vault, transmog and void storage vendor, etc.
2) No more gated professions. This was never an issue originally in the game. As much as the new epic jewelcrafting recipes are kind of annoying to get, they at least bring us out of the garrisons. The mastery pattern from Brawler's guild is extreme, but you get the point. Perhaps have some questlines or followers to find in order to get that awesome recipe, out in the world, every major patch, where it might take a couple weeks of grinding to get.
3) Put them in Azeroth, near your race's starting area. That way Blizz saves on wasting resources every xpac. It goes on till the end of the game. This way, it repopulates the world again.
4) Similar to the stables, make cosmetic buildings that are general in a way, but reflect you. We have the Stables which show some of the mounts you have. Expand on this. Have a library that somehow shows the achievements you have. Or an armory that shows the cool transmog gear you have, or that trophy room with the epic gear or weapons you've accumulated.
5) Lastly, get rid of the garrison prison problem. Have it be something similar to the shipyard...by that I mean the amount of missions you have and the time it takes. I love that I don't need to check my naval missions that often. Make it where you have to check on them every few days, or idealy once a week. If you have a mine or herb garden, make it where once you grab your herb and nodes, you can't again till it resets on it resets for the week.
Finally, make garrisons BIND ON ACCOUNT.
End rant.
I agree, garrisons should have been account wide. It would have relieved the feeling of mandatory or time wasting that a lot of people felt from them. Cycling through my characters early on when I still did it started to feel more like a job than a game I play for entertainment purposes.
DeleteThe JC thing is a little strange. It is really a feel of old school crafting and I am not sure I like it. I still do not have the all the JC patterns on any of my max level jewel crafters. Can not be bothered doing the brawlers guild. Have all the others however. I'll get there one day. I just hate that something that is "optional" content like the brawlers guild was made mandatory for jewel crafters.
Having the mine and garden reset weekly is an interesting idea. That could have helped some in lowering the massive influx of materials.
My JC is my Mage, not the character I would choose to take into the Brawlers Guild. I do role-play, and that's just not him.
DeleteThe glorious irony is that being an Arcane mage he really wants to make Mastery gems......
All m JCs are tanks. I only tank on them. So that will make doing it a slight bit harder for sure. I'll probably just over gear it to get it.
DeleteI do have a hunter that is a JC but he is on an inactive account and still sitting at level 85 where he has been since the account went inactive back in cataclysm.
Doing it on a hunter = no problem.
@Grumpy: I don't know what to say. I mean: I can see your point of view, but personally, I don't have big issues with garrisons. I've stopped herbing and mining in my garrisons for a long while. Across my characters, I do have tons of ore and herbs. What I do NOT have tons of are the Sorcerous elements, Savage Blood and *drumroll* Felblight. Those stuff are now the bottlenecks of professions, and the gathering of Felblight is so unfunny I can't describe it.
ReplyDeleteThe pruning of profession stuffs went a bit overboard. Now, if I don't want the 3 Unique (Warlords crafted) items, what can I create with professions? Very little. Enchantments are now pruned massively (and there were no new enchantments for 6.2) and jewelcrafting's a joke now.
Felblight and its dreadful drop rate are all I am short of. I have over 800 of each element, closing in on 1000 of some. But I have a lot of alts, so that could be why.
DeleteIf they ever add buying felblight for primals I could buy a ton of them, sitting on over 10,000 primals right now with nothing to spend them on. I wish they would do that, at 50 per (like the savage blood was at the start) I would have enough felblights to last the rest of the expansion.
*as well.
ReplyDeleteI don't have many alts. But, I do have 7 Level 3 Garrisons, 6 Level 3 Shipyards (and 1 Level 2), and 7 715 rings from the Legendary quest chain. While I do feel a bit exhausted at times, that's my cue to get away from the com (or WoW at least) and do other stuff (e.g. talk to my widow mum).
Despite not being there while it's active content, Wrath had the best storyline, hands down. It's something that is glaringly missing in Warlords.
I have not gotten into the ring quest line much this expansion, only have 3 with it and 3 slowly up and coming. But that is because LFR is not worth doing any more so my alts are not doing it and this not getting the pieces they need for the ring.
DeleteWrath was the best balance any expansion ever had. Easy and challenging, very story focused, but free flowing too. A little bit of everything for everyone. I still wonder why blizzard has completely removed from the wrath model when the fact remains, it was the best the game ever saw from a story and game play perspective.
Herbs and Ore for All:
ReplyDeleteI didn't like the Garrison buildings flooding everyone with mats, but I'd be fine with all gathering professions becoming Secondary professions.
Profession at Level 1:
Generally agree with Grumpy.
Being Grounded:
Agree that "Pathfinder" should be there at launch and should be for just getting Loremaster and Explorer. Other things are just an annoyance. Account wide can be at max or min level, either is fine. I can deal with being grounded for a few days while leveling, but after that, it's like punishment...
Garrisons:
Agree that it should be housing, not a huge Garrison that is a central theme of the expansion. Smaller, more customizable would be good. I like the idea of a notice board for quests (offering dailies or weeklies or something). It should have nothing to do with Legendary questlines... Just make it a cosmetic thing in SW/ORG; for example, have your own instanced airship/zeppelin that I've heard people suggest.
Jumping Puzzles:
Treasures were a nice addition; like the random chests of the old days. This is not a platforming game, so jumping puzzles should never be a thing.
New Character Models:
Agree that it'd be better to have constant incremental updates instead of making it such a big deal for the expansion's "content".
Randomized Upgrades:
Quest rewards could randomly upgrade, that's fine. Endgame gear should not be random.
We have become spoiled, and that is blizzards fault, so yes, being grounded does seem like a punishment once you reach max level. Based on the feedback they received, enough to make them reverse their decision, I think they notice that now as well. Or at least hope they do.
DeleteQuest rewards being upgrades are fine. It is something you will replace at max level. But in that case, even if you get a follower at a low level, as they are used end game, they should not have been randomized upgrades.
TBH, I think random upgrades are fun. I suppose it is because you said on your alt NOT getting them was not fun, and I had only done it the once so it was fun then.
ReplyDeleteI like treasures. I don't like jumping to get them. You're right, that bit is not fun. I like that you can find treasures daily (in Tanaan) and in Ashran, and I like that you can find treasures for XP, garrison resources, toys etc.
Mine and herbs, definitely not again. I did like it at first. Maybe only for a month.
I agree that Garrisons should be a housing thing and maybe full of little things like pet battles, fishing quests etc which don't mean much to the big game picture. Also having a bank and little portals in it is fun too. Invasions I hope will stay. I like the idea of invasions. And don't get me started on shipyard which is fun to build but i hate sending my boats out on missions.
I like this legendary chain, but I hope I never have to do another again. But I think that's pushing it.
Yeah, I liked them the first time through but on alts it started to get bothersome. Perhaps that is why you did not notice it the way I did, as you do not have the alt army that I do. It is something that only people with alts might notice honestly. For a single player, no problem what so ever as I see it.
DeleteI forgot about the invasions. I liked those. I still need a couple of platinum. By the time they added them I could never find anyone that wanted to do them any more sadly. Hate seeing easy to get achievements like that just hanging there undone.
I think blizzard likes this legendary system and they will likely stick with it. Would love to see it become a bit less annoying. I did not mind the first two parts, it was only mild RNG but the tomes suck. 9 bosses, 2 tomes. How is that even possible? They need to remove the RNG from it to make it a less frustrating process in my opinion. They would have been better off saying we needed 100 and they dropped off every boss than saying we needed 33 and leaving it to luck for when we finish it.
I no longer enjoy Draenor.
ReplyDeleteMy raiding days are long past. I much prefer jumping into WoW for some entertainment, when I can. The solo contant since Cata is dismal.
I feel that Draenor is a bunch of Facebook apps thrown in, with no real continuity of the MMO.
One of my biggest gripes is the steady decline in the thought and planning given tp professions.
There has been a steady declined in the thought and planning of the game as a whole it seems. It is what I often refer to here as a management issue. Blizzard just needs some new blood running the show, someone with ideas, someone with a direction, no more of this throw whatever comes to mind in and see what sticks.
DeleteI didn't play this expansion, but I find it funny that when it first came out everyone was loving it saying it was one of the best. They had a good start and just didn't follow it up/execute properly. I would like to see them do something drastic and basically eliminate levels and just have all content be doable by everyone and make almost everything account wide. Followers, garrisons, reputations, professions, just everything. You should play alts just to play a different class. This way if a pattern for JC drops on any toon, you can use it. If you like doing certain types of content on certain classes you do it on that class. You should do content to see that content not as a reason to get to something else. Too many people go through leveling just to get to endgame, and others love the leveling content but hate endgame. If all content was just doable by anyone with no levels the ones that like a specific type of content will do that content. Go the way Windows seems to be going of eliminating the boxed expansion and just keep releasing bits of content. This month is new quests. This month is new dungeons. This month is a new raid. This month is new reputations. Etc.
ReplyDeleteI understand why they added the rng of WF/Gem slots to make BiS not as attainable as it basically became everyone was waiting for only their BiS items and anything else was garbage because at one point you could expect to get pretty close to BiS in a tier, but there needs to be something predictable in the game still (ie valor gear) as there is a huge difference between those raiding mythic for months on end with every drop being sharded and those playing an alt every once in a while just hoping to make some progress.
The problem with that was that everything in warlords was "one and done". The rares you kill once and can never kill again. The bonus zones you complete once and can never do again. The treasure you hunt for once and can never find again. etc.
DeleteToo much "one and done" design and facebook games like garrisons are what doomed it. Sure it seemed fun at launch because it had that new car smell, but that fades. Being I played beta I warned everyone about that, they just did not listen to me.
I personally like having an attainable BiS. It gives me something to aim for. It is also easier to get then hoping for RNG for it to drop, then hoping for RNG for it to have a gem slot, then hoping for RNG for it to be warforged. I don't want RNG plied on RNG piled on RNG. I just want a piece of gear, I put it on and I kill things. Plain and simple. I am an easy to please elf. Amazing that blizzard has such a hard time pleasing me thanks to RNG design.
I couldn't agree with you more on every point made, but in particular on farming. We grumbled about it, we felt like it was "work", but at the end of the day, it's why we knew each zone like the back of our hands and had something to DO for crying out loud. Sure, you can go out in Draenor and farm ore, but why on Earth would you ever even consider it? It's certainly not profitable.
ReplyDeleteI have often thought this all ties in to the token system. They have removed or nerfed every single thing that a person could make stupid amounts of gold on in the hopes that we will spend real money to buy a token to sell. It was a brilliant idea really. They effectively raised their sub price by $5 for all the players who pay via token. The problem is, they really damaged the game in the process. I'd have happily paid an increased sub instead. $20 is cheap entertainment in this day and age, and come on, they haven't raised their prices since they started. Yes, there would have been screaming and crying about it, but at the end of the day, the nerds would have continued to pay for their crack (myself included).
High hopes they see the light for the next expac. It truly looks awesome! I'm not totally jaded yet. WoW hasn't been a game I've played for the last ten years, but rather I place I go and I'd miss it terribly if I finally became disenchanted enough with it to quit.
I've heard a lot of people thinking that many changes could have some token based ulterior motives involved and I do agree it is quite possible. I know if I ran a company like this I would think to try and get people to buy the token, so it is not exactly far fetched at all. I just wonder if this is what we can expect from now on. Everything being designed from a profit only angle instead of a game play one. I hope that does not happen because it could destroy the game, and fast. Here is to hoping they can find a balance between making compelling game play and making money.
Delete