Monday, May 14, 2012

LFM DW Kill 395 ilvl+ Must have Achievement.

I've been seeing that line around lately.  On two different servers as a matter of fact.  Mind if I ask what is up with that?

Why would you need to be in almost all DS gear to kill DW?  You didn't need to be in all DS gear to kill DW before the debuffs.

I've tanked it, healed it, DPSed it at range, and DPSed it in melee.  Of the ones I have killed DW on not a single one of my them was over 395 when they killed DW the first time.  Two of them before this new debuffed version came into place.

Someone said in trade, 395 lololol.

Normally I do not like people that type like that because they are usually trouble makers but I am glad someone said something.  He was dead right, in this own trollish sort of way.

The poster said that they just wanted people that knew what they where doing.

I wonder how a 395 item level means someone knows what they are doing.  Could someone please explain that to me?

I wonder how having the achievement means someone knows what they are doing.  Could someone please explain that to me?

Maybe I am missing something here or that guy is just a total moron.

I'm going to go with the guy being a total moron.

I was so tempted to say that my druid tank only has a 384 item level but the fact I was killing it well before the 20% buff must mean I am baddie and don't know what I am doing when he was looking for a tank with those requirements.

People like that are the vocal ones, they are the ones that new people see and hear, they are the ones that make it hard for someone just starting.

I dislike them and I dislike their logic and I dislike the fact they make it hard for new players to actually pug things.  Sad thing is, you see more runs like that then runs looking for just anyone that can at least gem and enchant correctly.

The guy might have said "LFM DW Kill 395 ilvl+ Must have Achievement." but what I read it as is "LFM DW Kill need geared and skilled players to carry my sorry ass because I am too lazy to learn my class or the fights".

I hate trolls but sometimes I have to give them the credit they deserve and do something I rarely ever do, quote one.

So to that guy, 395 lololol.


  1. I'm going to play Devil's Advocate and say that in a pug it's much easier to wipe to things a regular raid group never would. People spamming trade for pick ups usually want the least amount of problems so err on the side of caution and require a higher item level.

    Better gear doesn't always mean higher skill, of course, but it definitely means higher optimum performance potential. If you have to run a raid with 9 other people you don't know better safe than sorry, IMO. It doesn't necessarily make them trolls or wanting to be carried. Although clearly they are not wanting to carry anyone else.

    If you really want in a particular run just pst the raid leader, explain you don't meet his or her gear requirements but you've done it before and are confident you can pull your own weight. I've done this many times and it usually works.

    1. I've done that myself. Was not really talking about me but was talking about new players.

      I feel for the new players that never get a chance. Sure there would be a ton of bad ones out there but there could very well be some great ones that never get the chance because everyone wants to blow through content as fast as possible.

      I call these new people the x-box generation. People that want to buy a game and beat it the night they get home with it. Sad it is infesting warcraft.

      Good job playing devils advocate. I would have said the same thing as you if I where playing that role but today I am playing the role of the guy that feels bad for the new players just starting.

      I can argue both sides honestly. There is no right or wrong here.

  2. I get your point about the new players. And I definitely agree. I was new as well not that long ago. I'm not even really a gamer, I only play WoW. I got my first taste of a raid back mid wrath and I loved it and knew I wanted to do more. So I got in progressively better guilds, learned as much as I could, made mistakes, got cussed out for them, but I got better as I went along. I really like raiding and it makes it all worth it. As a new comer I found a way to do what I wanted to do without anyone really to show me the ropes initially.

    But I definitely have a soft spot for newer players or those still learning the game. It's so easy to forget that we all made the same mistakes that we now yell at others for making and call them "baddies" or "noobs" over. At the same time I can understand needing to pug a run on an alt but not wanting to wipe for hours to content you normally have on farm. So yes, there are two sides, both valid, to this issue. :)

    1. Situations like this suck because both sides have a good argument.

      I know the reason I do not pug on my alts is exactly what you said. I do not want to end up in a wipe fest in a raid that I normally clear in 1 1/2-2 hours.

      On my server we have this one warlock with a higher item level than my hunter and he is a warlock wearing half spirit gear.

      Yes, seriously, he has a better item level than me and doesn't even know what type of gear he should be wearing.

      My guess is that he gets the gear just because he has gear to begin with. He joins those 395 lolol runs. (note: this is why I would never join a 395 lolol run)

      People need to do more inspecting and less asking of item level in my opinion. I would take a 378 geared warlock in correct gear over a 401 warlock wearing spirit gear any day. But maybe I am wrong. Heck, I am sure I am wrong being he is better geared than me, item level wise at least.

  3. On one hand, I can understand not wanting to carry someone through an encounter, but on the other hand, gear does not equal skill and I do agree that it's ridiculous to expect someone to out-gear content to be allowed to come to a raid.

    I managed to get my (severely) undergeared paladin alt into a DS10 run less than a day after she hit 85. I know for a fact the only reason the group tolerated my crap gear and sub-par healing is because I told them I had the achievement for completing the raid on heroic with my hunter.

    Raiding is kind of like a job. If you have no experience, it's hard to get in. You have to keep doing odd raids here and there, picking up gear and achievements where you can, until you can put something solid on your "raiding resume". Sometimes a nice guy will take a chance on a new kid and show them the ropes, but that's pretty rare. You usually have to do the legwork yourself. Once you get the experience, build up a reputation for knowing your stuff, you can get a steady raid group. If your skill is there, you can apply for a better raid group and have a spot every week with benefits.

    I do agree with you about the "xbox generation" comment. People don't WANT to do the legwork these days. They want to just push a button and receive purples without actually doing any work. It's not helped by gear being really, really easy to come by these days. People expect regular raids to be a cakewalk like dungeons and LFR are, so they pug and end up making the raid wipe over and over again, which makes raid leaders raise their standards for pugs. It's a self perpetuating cycle, really. So unless you've got references, or a fantastic resume, you're gonna have a hard time getting in to a raid.

    395 lololol indeed.

    1. It is the catch 22 of real life in game. You can't do something without experience but you can't get experience without doing it.

      I feel bad for new players coming in, I really do. I think if I started the game now I would never make it the way things are.

      I fondly remember the first raiding guild I got into going back in content for one week, just to get me some experience and gear me up. That doesn't happen any more because it is not needed.

      Heck, in my guild now, we will just carry the person through DS straight off to gear them up. Even on an alt run with lower than average players 6/8 is easily attainable. I think it is a bad system as it is now but the x-box generation will never tolerate going back to gated content.

  4. This is my take on the subject, with regards to a solution:

    Inspired by a grumpy elf, of course. :P