Wednesday, October 14, 2015

6.2.3 AKA "If we had done this earlier we might not have lost over 5M subs."

The 6.2.3 preview came out and I would be lying if I did not say it brought a smile to my face.  And it bought a smile to my face for more than one reason.  One being the obvious reason and that is there is now a reason for me to log in again. I've been looking for that for a while this expansion.  Something that makes me feel as if I am advancing my character.

The other reason is of course coming the the basic human nature of people like to be right, they like to be able to say I told you so, and I did tell you so.  They are adding a few things I said the game needed since it was still in beta.  Such as a reason to do dungeons or LFR, namely valor.

One thing being added is Mythic Raiding Cross Realm and it should have come a hell of a lot sooner.  There is only really one reason why there was no mythic cross realm raiding earlier and that is to preserve the world first race.  I could most definitely see how cross realm being enabled could taint the race for world first, but I never quite understood why it was not enabled as soon as one of those guilds claimed the title.

What this addition is missing is one other change that is needed for cross realm mythic raiding to really work and reach the level or awesomeness it is capable of.  The loot lockout design, like the one they use for normal and heroic, needs to be adopted instead of the raid lockout number like mythic uses now.  I don't know about you but I hate getting into a mythic pug, downing the first boss, and the group falls apart and my mythic raiding is done for the week.  That is a major buzz kill that not only makes you apprehensive with joining pugs but can ruin your week if you do join on. So they need to add that change.

I could say that they need to change it to offer a 10 man version of mythic raids but that is a post all on its own.  Lets just say that the loss of 10 man raiding at its highest level has quite possibly destroyed more guilds than horridon did.

They are adding another set of dungeons to the timewalking rotation, this time it is Cataclysm Timewalker Dungeons.  I am glad to see more added to the mix of course, but unless you are new to the game the cataclysm dungeons are really not that far removed and I don't think need to be rehashed just yet.  I would have really preferred if they saved these for next expansion to add them then, instead of shoving them into the mix now.

Not saying I won't do them of course because you know damn well I will.  Grim Batol, Lost City of Tol'vir, Stonecore, Throne of Tides, Vortex Pinnacle and End Time are going to be part of the rotation.  A few too many as well.  I believe they should have keep slowly adding things, but it seems blizzard is in full on panic mode and offering us a lot more than they need to.  We will also be seeing Pit or Saron and Magister’s Terrace added to the wrath and BC mix, respectively.

They added a new mount as well, the Infinite Timereaver, that could drop from any timewalking boss when doing the time walker dungeons, which is nice.  But I know my luck and will not count on it.  Over all my characters I must be well over 2,000 stonecore kills and I still do not have that mount, so no holding my breath here, but it does give a tiny bit of added motivation to do it.

They are making some interesting changes that I would love to think they did not flesh out yet like Baleful Tokens Up To 695 now when you get lucky and get an epic upgrade instead of only to 675.  But I question, what of the upgrade to 695 pieces?  Will they now upgrade it to 715 or something?  We will have to wait to see.  Maybe you just do not need to spend the extra to get it to 695 now.  I am rather sure that is what they are going to do.

They also changed the loot in mythic dungeons so that now Mythic Dungeons Can Drop 725 loot.  When you get an upgrade instead of it being 705 all the time it can be 710, 715, 720 and for those extremely lucky few, 725.  I am not lucky of course, but it is a tiny motivating factor to do them again.

When doing mythic dungeons now you will also have a chance to looting a new Heirloom Trinket that goes to level 110.  While I am not sure of how good these trinkets are, I know I will want them and maybe you will too.  Once more, motivation, something that blizzard had failed so horribly at this expansion, is being added in 6.2.3 for some people that might seek these things.

They will also be ending the arena season so they can start a new Arena Season 3 for those people that are into PvP and need added motivation to keep plugging along.  As a non PvPer I am not exactly sure what they is needed, if I want to kill someone I want to kill them, what season it is does not matter to me.  But don't judge that by my take on it, as I said, I do not participate in the seasons, at least not since wrath, so someone that does is probably going to really love this.

It should be noted, even for PvPers, that the gear that is available from PvP will be better than even heroic HFC in many cases, so if you want the best gear, even if you are not a PvPer, and you are not doing mythic raiding, it looks like blizzard is telling you to try out PvP.  Not really sure if I like this idea as a PvE player as I believe that the best gear for PvE should come from PvE but you can get 715, 730 and even 740 gear from doing PvP as soon as season 3 comes out.

A new Majestic Grove Warden mount will be available, for a limited time only.   When you kill archimonde on heroic or mythic you will get a quest item that sends you to moonglade for a small bit of story and this mount as a reward.  They did not mention when this limited time event will end, but if I had to guess I would say it will end when 7.0 comes out, which seems only logical as they intend to give the mount only to those people who killed the last boss of the expansion on heroic or higher a mount for doing so when it was current.

The biggest and bestest addition to 6.2.3 in the opinion of those elf, one that had me smiling from one pointy ear to the other pointy ear, is that Valor is Returning.  Why it has taken blizzard so long to realize that removing it was an error that I pointed out last expansion when they said they were removing it is beyond me.  Apparently there is not one single person that works at blizzard that has any say on the matter that realizes that you need to have some sort of motivation for people to keep doing dungeons and raids once they are done with them.

You can get valor from running heroic or mythic dungeons (during bonus events it seems) and LFR, each wing, once per week.  Needless to say this not only gives us a reason to run content was have thrown on to the scrap pile a long time ago but it will surely increase the quality of players in this content making the runs more efficient and more enjoyable, by a long shot.

With valor's return the Item Upgrade Vendors will be returning as well allowing you to upgrade your gear twice, at the moment, in increments of 5 levels per.  This will give many people more than ample reason to keep running that old content.  Something the game really needed, and needed from release.  The lack of valor, in my opinion, is the single worst things this expansion has had to deal with because it made all content one and done.  Valor was the great motivator that makes people keep doing things even after they have done them.  It makes content repeatable.

There is one glaring absence here however, the lack of valor gear.  I would love to see gear, equal to T2 gear, at an item level of 695 available for valor.  For those people that are not the grinding type that will spend their daily time in tanaan having a valor gear option for gearing just makes sense.  But at least they are adding something which is better than nothing, which is what we had before.

If you want to read the 6.2.3 preview from the horses mouth you can check it out here.  At the moment it seems to have a lot of potential to get me back into doing things as I surely will be grinding valor, it is what I have been asking for all expansion so of course I will do it, but what do you think, is there anything you like about it or would like to see added to it?

And no, I have no clue when 6.2.3 is coming out, but when you hear the announcement of the PvP season ending, it will be 2 weeks after that, if blizzard holds to their pattern.


  1. We should encourage these types of acts by Blizzard, attempts to address the problem. Is it too little too late? Yeah, I got to say it is. This change 6 months ago, would have rejuvenated a lot of the flagging enthusiasm and made WoD palatable, but after 9 months of stagnation the stale taste was too much to bare and I think it will only function as a stop gap measure.

    I do not think there will be a very large resurgence or enthusiasm like they might have gotten around 6.1. It will function as a stop gap measure for the hard core wow player (not raider, just long term players of years).

    I will pursue some of these new things and hopefully that uptick in participation will positively reinforce these belated efforts.

    1. I would put it in the realm of it is way too late. If this was patch 6.1 material I would say be very excited but now the damage is done. You can't stop the bleeding on a limb that has already been lost.

      The "player" part is key. This seems to give a lot to the non raider which the game surely needed. The only thing missing is gear for valor, if they added that as well, it could be a non raiders dream.

      Hopefully they will see that people like this sort of thing and we will have valor and reasons to repeat dungeons on release in legion instead of a repeat of this misguided attempt at gaming.

    2. Yes faaaaar tooooo late, such that it no longer matters since I've long gone.

  2. Anon, Grumpy's former Guild Leader:

    I agree that this patch is needed and that it would have done both the player base and the game as a whole a world of good if it had been released as 6.1 or there about. Released now, it has a lesser impact. Things like Valor being restored, which I agree should never have been removed, may well be enough to slow and perhaps even stop the loss of subscriptions but that is about the very most that can be hoped for it.

    What remains to be seen is how this patch will be treated come Legion. Will Valor disappear again? Also, will flight be enabled as an achievement obtainable with 7.0 or will it be uncertain as to exactly when flight will be back. This new patch by Blizzard may slow or stop the loss of subscriptions but I think answers to how Legion will be developed will be far more important in reversing the losses. The wrong answers, especially any less than perfectly honest wrong answers, will be the determinant on how WoW fares in the future.

    As an example of this, I personally do not intend to purchase Legion as it is released. I have achieved already all that I originally set out to do in this game, with two of my three mains having reached level 100. How Blizzard answers the questions about WoW:L will determine if and when I purchase Legion. A wrong answer on flight, leaving the when of it unanswered, will be a discouragement from purchasing Legion. (A completely wrong answer of no flight will prohibit purchasing the expansion until reversed.)

    There are other questions such as the artifact weapon that have a major impact on the purchase decision also. Is it possible to level the artifact for multiple specs at the same time? All three of my mains are hybrid classes, though I play each as a DPS (LOL, I know you don't approve of that). Will leveling as a DPS mean my tank and or healer specs get leveled at the same time or will it be level the damn thing again for another spec?

    So, this patch, while good on first glance, is not the be all and end all of Blizzards need to recover some customer trust. That is going to be a much harder job than a single patch can cover.

    1. That is the first thing I thought of, this should have all been part of 6.1. It would have actually made 6.1 more of a content patch.

      Warlords will forever be known as the expansion were a minor patch (6.2.3) was bigger and better received than a major patch (6.1).

      They better not remove valor in legion. Maybe they will finally realize that if they want people running dungeons and LFR more than once to get what they want and never returning they need to give them motivation to do so and valor does just that. How did they lose the basic concept of a MMO by not making their content repeatable?

      The more I think about artifact weapons the more I dislike them, at least based on the little we have heard so far. I can think of a least a dozen reasons they will suck and only one why they will be good, and that is no more hoping for a weapon drop.

      It is not the be all end all, but it will give people a reason to play again. My only worry is, have people become too pissed off already that not even this will help? That is quite possible.

    2. If they bring back VP, it has to be in its original form, not just for upgrades. Because I really don't see gear as being upgradable from the start.

    3. Hell no, just like last expansion with no valor gear at the end. Some of my unplayed alts were sitting at valor cap with dungeon gear and early MV, HoF and ToeS gear that I did not think was worth upgrading.

      They should have gear (for the people that need it) and upgrades (for the people that do not need gear) to make everyone happy.

      It would be great for me, 4 characters would upgrade, the rest would buy gear, and it gives me a reason to play them all once again.

      But right now looking at a 670 piece I would never even think of wasting valor to upgrade it. But if they made 695 gear for valor (that was not random like baleful) I would buy it in a heartbeat. As odd as it sounds, I would rather but a 695 piece with bad stats knowing what I am getting, then keep trying to get the right stats over and over with baleful gear any day.

  3. I would like to see some of these 7xx ilvl drops in Challenge Modes for maybe Silver completion.
    Maybe as a daily quest reward?

    (Looks like you can get 680 gear from them since Patch 6.2 just for completion.


    1. I agree, the boxes should be at the very least baleful 695 level. I have not done challenge modes this season, and not really tried, even if I want the mount. Basically because there is nothing you can get useful from them. Maybe, just maybe, I will create a team and bang out silvers for the mount some day. But if there was a decent reward, I would have been doing them every day to begin with, or at least trying too.

    2. But that's just it, they're not supposed to be useful. If there's proper gear, people will feel forced to do them and people unable to do them will feel excluded from 'yet another piece of content for elitists'. Then again, a full gold boost is around 160k iirc, so they can throw whatever they want in there, the vanity of it lost its luster.

    3. Even if people would feel "forced" to do them there are some that are just not capable of doing them, so they won't.

      It is the same with mythic raiding. People feel "forced" to do them, but some are just not capable for whatever reason, so they don't.

      Just because content is there doesn't mean you have to do it. But if you want to, you will get better so you can.

  4. When do you think patch 6.2.3 will drop? I started doing the 100 pvp wins and I'm just half way through, not sure if I have the time to finish it. Previous season was 29 weeks, the one before 33, this one seems so very short...

    1. Btw, the mentions gear iLvl is PvP scaled to 715, 730, 740, not in PvE. Which makes it kind of meh, because now gladiator gear is 730 and it will just increase by 10 iLvls.

    2. If someone is still walking about with a 705 on, a 740 will be a substantial upgrade. Even if the second stats are not idea in many cases.

      Being they have not announced the end of the arena season I would say you have some time. Remember they always give a 2 week notice and if you really wish to bust your ass with it, you can do 10 wins a day no problem, so 10 days. All assuming you have the people willing to do it with you.

      If I had to guess, I would say we have a month. I would guess in 2 weeks we will hear the season is ending and 2 weeks after the new season will start. But that is a pure guess, they could announce the end this weekend for all we know.

    3. 740 pvp is not 740 pve.
      Current pvp ilvls are 715 blue (670 pve) and 730 epic (700 pve). 740 pvp is probably 710 pve.

    4. I'm not sure I'm explaining this right. If you have a 705 item now, you'll only get a 5 item level upgrade for the best pvp gear (conquest gear, needing 7250 cp even to be eligible for weapon and offhand). And I don't think pvp gear will be upgradable with valour either.

    5. I've mapped a plan around raid days to get those wins in two weeks, just in case, should be doable if we don't kill each other before. I pvp as holy and being a healer in a 3v3 is stresful to say the least. Luckily, I do have a team. One that doesn't even have a composition name, lock, holy pala and rogue. Meh.

    6. Ah, I got you. Now I understand. I see 740 and to me it is 740. I was always under the impression that it was indeed whatever item level was on it and in instanced PvP it was lowered, not the other way around.

      PvP will not be upgradable, at least I do not suspect it would be as it never was last expansion and that makes sense.

      Being a healer in 3s takes a special mentality, as you know you will always be piled on. Good luck getting it.

      If you want to make ti easier. Have someone dog their rating and then you will get a slew of easy fights for a while.

    7. I like playing fair. We're at 52 - 44 win/lose ratio. I also thought I'd be piled on, but that only happens in around a quarter of the fights. Seems the main strategy in 3v3 is to CC the healer and kill the squishiest dps. So I mostly run run run and try to avoid CC and interrupts with trinkets, bubbles, hands, fake casts and more running while throwing some heals and dispelling the teammates. Oh, and also denouncing the hunters, so they don't crit haha. I denounce everything, just that hunters seem useless without crit.

    8. Here's a link for one random piece of pvp chest.

      You can see its actual item level and the PvP item level in parenthesis. It's a new WoD thing, so that PvP gear isn't outclassed by PvE gear but PvE players don't feel forced to PvP for it either. I think the concept of it was ok.

    9. I just missed my 100 by 12 two seasons ago and never got my team back on to finish it. We were doing about 50% ourselves playing fair. I think we were 88-92, but all three of us were not PvPers and we ere not an idea make up. So it is not as bad as it seems, in my opinion at least.

      As someone that does not PvP it might surprise you to find out I join the arena servers every time they are around and I love it. I mean really love it. No gear worries, no gems or enchants or what have you, everyone is even and it is all about skill. That is how PvP should be. Do I get my ass whooped a lot, sometimes sure, but I can learn there and I have a lot of fun doing it.

      I guess the PvP gear will only be useful for those doing LFR or only early normal then. So it might still have some use for some people.

  5. I thought you might like this patch Grumpy :-)

    "Too much too late" springs to mind as a tag line, but "better late than never" is perhaps more accurate and charitable.

    Three things concern me:-

    1. The gear drops from HFC Normal are now going to be worthless aside from Tier set pieces and trinkets. Run the raids for progression, run dungeons for gear. Not sure about how that's going to work. It's hard enough getting people together for Normal when it's not much better than T2 gear, this is going to exacerbate the issue. Maybe if T2 and LFR gear isn't upgradable but Normal gear and above is, it might help.

    2. When will we see it? I recall how long it took to implement flying. The mere promise that flying was returning did much to stem the flow, but flying itself took 2 months to get through PTR and live, so we may not see 6.2.3 until just before xmas. (And why 6.2.3? This deserves to be 6.3 surely as it contains way more than 6.1 did?)

    3. I'm not sure that the LFR atmosphere will be improved by forcing people who were done with it to run every raid toon they have through every wing every week to keep their gear upgraded. There will be more people, the queue times should drop, but how enjoyable will it be? Time will tell.

    Maybe flying was the turning point: that's when Blizzard realised they had to listen to and act on player concerns. This is encouraging, and I hope the trend continues into Legion. I'm more optimistic about the game than I have been for months.

    1. I think it leans more to the "too much too late" area than the "better late than never" area.

      The damage is done, people have left, more than half of them that felt they had nothing to do. And even people that stayed, like me, have not been playing as much as they were. Some will start playing more, others will just be like "screw it", I don't want to do this any more.

      This is most definitely not a case of "better late than never".

      1) For most casual guilds, like my own, that is all normal has been used for for a while now. We do our normal archie kill to upgrade the ring and do an alt run on weekends where the occasional main comes because they need a tier piece or a trinket. And we are not world beaters, we are just your average casual guild. So for a lot of guilds normal will still have its use. Just not for straight progression.

      2) My guess would be a month, mid November, maybe the week before, or the week after blizzcon.

      3) Atmosphere? It will be worse. Usually the most toxic players are the players who "think" they are good and they are stuck doing things beneath them. But ease? It will be 10 times easier than it is now. Instead of having a group were 1 person is doing over 20K you will have groups with 5 or 6 doing over 80K which will make the runs faster, easier and much more enjoyable. As long as you do not listen to those jerks trash talking their way though it.

      I love that flying is back, but sadly it came to late. Even getting it I still felt no reason to log in to use it. It would have been awesome if it were added when I was still into the game, but being the game had already lost me, adding flying was not enough to get me back.

  6. I will not really comment on the return of the valor (as weird as it might sounds to you, I've had MORE reason to run dungeons in WoD until now that I had in cata/mist). But concerning the addition of cross realm mythic, I don't think it's too late, I think it's perfectly on time. By the time 6.2.3 drop it will be 5ish month of HFC, which in my opinion show your worth as a guild. There will be around 200 guild that have kill mythic archimonde at that point, feel like it should be to be.

    But really the cross-realm mythic thing is something I can realte to both point of view, but it should be either handled like they did this time (4-5ish month in the tier) or right away and just say "fuck off" to the larger race.

    1. That does sound weird. I would love to actually hear why you liked doing dungeons more now. It would be interesting.

      My guess, if I had to, is that the runs, even if not as easy and not as fast, are usually with a much better quality of people even if not players. That is a good reason as I see it. And on the rare occasion I went into a dungeon for the hell of it, yes, without the people trying to go go go through it, they were indeed fun. For me however, there needs to be some incentive.

      I hold by my opinion that as soon as world first, or maybe even top 5, is decided, there really is no reason to keep mythic locked any longer.

      Look at the mythic guilds recruiting people with a higher item level and no real experience or skill, because they are willing to try anything. And that is on "good" servers, bigger ones. Servers like mine can't even get heroic archie down, do you really think we can assemble a mythic guild on that server? Not happening.

      What larger race do you speak of? Server first? On most servers server first really does not mean a hill of beans. My guild is your basic casual guild, friends and family if you will, and we snagged a few server firsts, seconds and thirds over the years, sometimes with as little as 2 hours a week raiding. So I don't think blizzard needs to worry about the server first race, it means nothing to the vast majority of players. (except the guild aiming for it and they would kill me for saying that. lol)

    2. Just a note to say I've seen your message and I'll reply latter, don't really have time now, and it will probably be a somewhat lengthy post

    3. I look forward to it. I like seeing the game from a different set of eyes. It sometimes even helps me find new ways to enjoy myself along the way.

    4. So, first just to give you context, here is my character :

      In MOP (and before that in cata) I never ran dungeons past the gearing process cause I was capping by doing the other stuf (raiding/dailies, you get the idea), when they added the valor aginst timeless coin in MOP it was even worse because I had MILLIONS of coins due to farming the place fo achievements.

      In warlord, I needed ressources, a lot of them, and dungeons were one of the best way to get som thanks to the dailies they added in 6.1

      I'm also playing around 3 alts semi serously, but the way I play is "a character can only use what he gets by himself" (exception is made for crafted gear). In MOP those alts aswell were capping through raiding/dailies. SO dungeosn for me were only the stepping stone for gearing.

      Checking in game now, the boss I've kill the most in MOP is Yan-zhu with a grand total of 18, in WOD the one I killed the less is viryx with 21.

      I'm somewhat that thins that gear should only come from what your character is actually doing, because that force you to learn the character, no point having the best gear if you can't use it.

      That's also why I never used heirloom, and never had the problem of outleveling a zone.

      As for the "larger race". I was more reffering to ppl Mythic is actually designed for like the 150-200 first guild. the actual first are inconsequential, they are not the one for who mythic is really made.

      I know the problem aboutsmall servers having trouble with getting a guild, but if you check my server, you'll see that we're a really small server, even more so alliance side, and still we managed to be leading that server, and even horde side have 2 good guilds, so it's definitely possible, but it takes strong leadership.

    5. You seem to have done quite well for yourself on a smaller server, nice work.

      I know I could be doing better but two things are holding me back. One, I like the people I play with so I am willing to accept lesser progression to stay playing with them and two, as the raid leader I have lost a lot of the gusto that I used to have and that has to have some trickle down on the team I am sure even if you can not see it. I guess you could add a third which is, with so few guilds on the server once you fall behind on progression it becomes nearly impossible to catch up unless you can grab new people and train them, and hope you do not lose them.

      I have grabbed a few this expansion, but the loss of the long time raiders had been really painful, to say the least. Not to mention me having to tank most of the time is not great because I am not the best tank, I get by because of my knowledge, not any real skill. Like this week my hunter got only 1 heroic kill in, killrog, did 112K (with 1 down phase) which is okay for a 702, but I think me tanking all the other bosses is hurting my DPS as I am out of practice. I have a higher item level and more heroic kills on my tank, an alt. Over all if I could recruit a tank we would be better off because I am a much better hunter than I am a tank. But such is life, I am still enjoying the kills when I get them, and that is all that really matters in the end right?

      After reading your post last night when I logged in I took at look at my heroic dungeon kills, from wrath on. Every expansion I had at least 20 last boss kills on my main, the hunter. I am sure if I add alts I would easily be over 60 of each.

      There are even 4 dungeons that I had over 60 on,on just my main, two being the Zul ones from cata of course.

      This expansion on my main I have 18. Not on one boss, 18 total, for all dungeons combined. Not counting mythic.

      If I added my alts, outside of my tanks or healers which I would help guild mates with instant queues, the only dungeons I have done on alts are the 5 you need to do for the legendary line, queued for directly, not at random.

      I did not even do dungeons on my alts for gear this expansion because I did not like the entire gearing system for alts and had no intention of really playing them.

      I liked the valor for gear system, it made me want to play alts, want to gear up alts, and actually get interested in trying other classes because of it.

  7. Valor is just another currency. Without the associated gear, it is pretty much irrelevant what that currency is.

    In reality it just needed to be something other than Apexis so that we couldn't max out the upgrades instantly.

    I will be running dungeons for VP so I can upgrade my gear so I guess the chance (however small) of getting 725ilvl gear is a nice bonus...

    I'm surprised you like this extension of the RNG though Grumpy!
    Now the 685ilvl drop that you actually get will seem even worse when it could have been an incredible 40ilvls higher :-)

    1. I agree. And Apexis could have served as valor, IF the gear had been decent, IF the gear had been reasonably priced and IF you could get it from doing dungeons and LFR at the beginning. So the name really does not matter so much.

      I would say they need to add valor gear as well. Like I said, at least baleful 695 level. But with set stats so you know when you are getting instead of stupid random number generated gear like baleful garbage.

      I do not like the extension of RNG, but I will be running mythic dungeons for my valor, so I can upgrade my gear, and if I have the side effect where I "might" get a decent piece of gear, I can accept that.

      The difference is this. If I do mythic with the purpose of getting that 725 piece I hate the RNG of it. If I do mythic with the purpose of valor capping and I get it, I am happy.

      RNG should never, ever, be part of the gearing process. I wish blizzard would learn this one day. You should have to "earn" your gear, not "luck" into it.

  8. Yet again, I'm outraged how this all is outdated.

    1. Why do I need to re-run the old dungeons when I solo them now for achievements and nostalgy? A mount?
    2. Why do I need Valor NOW, when all the raid business is already good and done, and forgotten? To make my ilvl 10 points more? It makes no sense. I greet Valor in general, it's a great thing, but not at this step of WoD. Ilvl for ilvl won't work for me, thanks.
    3. I hate the idea when they give out powerful gear in Tanaan. At Timeless Isle you could dress up fast in 496 - to go and get 528 items in SoO LFR. This free loot was preparation for the last raid, for your alts to catch up. In Tanaan they give away items that could be easily upgraded to 695. There's absolutely no connection between effort and reward.

    1. It is very outdated, that is for sure. Everything you see here should have been part of 6.1, Of course the item levels would have been different at that point, but the content should have been there. So yes, it is extremely late to the party.

      1) I solo got mounts all the time. Rarely get them mind you, but I still do it.

      2) There are still some guilds that are trying to progress. If getting a few more item levels helps them, it keeps them playing and that is what blizzard wants.

      3) Yeah, tanaan makes little sense. You get gear better than some normal gear from it. But it is random, which means you could click on 200 pairs of gloves before you get one without versatility. No seriously, it happens.

      I think they should add valor gear equal to baleful item level with set stats on it, so people can work for it that way and buy what they want instead of having to deal with RNG.

  9. I doubt they will ever change the mythic loot lockout just because of the few top guilds that would run it multiple times per week with only a few people eligible for loot (even more than they do now with alts). It's a stupid reason, as they already go to great lengths for any perceived advantage, but that is my guess to why they don't. I could see it being once world first is over like your suggestion for cross realm, but it probably is more difficult to change the loot lockout than it is to enable cross realm. Personally I think they should stop worrying about world first at all because it's only a few hundred people that have any real shot at it. Stop making decisions based on them. They've made a lot of money from mythic players server transferring with all of their alts so they can keep doing mythic, so I doubt they will allow cross realm at the start of a new mythic tier.

    1. If those few top guilds are capable of doing that, more power to them.

      I understand what you are saying. It would cause massive burnout in the top end of the game spectrum. But really, blizzard needs to top catering to the top 0.07% of the player base. The game is intended for more than just them.

      Personally if my guild is only capable of doing the first few and can't get past gorefiend I am stuck in the position now of 1) leave my guild, 2) hope to get someone to server transfer to make my group better or 3) never down that boss. None of these are attractive options to me. So if I choose to do the first 5 on mythic is my guild (some day, not now as we have done none, just using an example) and then pug into a mythic group that is capable of doing the 6th and further, I should be allowed

      So while I understand the reasoning for it I do not agree with it. But I don't think they would ever change it. They fear the top 0.07% a bit too much, even if I am not sure why.

    2. They should consolidate realms properly.
      Actually, if I think about it, there is no logic in realms outside of technology limitations (and financial, money from server changes and whatnot). Why shouldn't everything be cross realm?

    3. I agree we could be more tied together. The issue is they did it wrong when they started it.

      Here is the simple solution they should have done from the get go.

      When they merged people they would not put James-Servername, they would make your server name your last name. This of course would require them adding an SQL field for last name but that is really zero trouble at all.

      Then offer everyone one free last night change for each of their characters, so they do not need to walk around with their server name.

      So now if your server and my server were merged and we both had character named James it would make no difference. You might have made your name James Jones, and I might have made mine James Smith and then when they add another there could be a James Williams, a James Johnson, etc.

      The biggest problem they had with the merges, as they mentioned at least, was people being connected to their names and they did not want to make them change it. I personally think "adding" a last name would have solved this as no one would ever need to change their name.

      But no... such a great solution and no one in a billion dollar company ever thought of it.

  10. I never really understood with needing a reason to run dungeons. If the only reason I'm running dungeons is to upgrade my gear otherwise I would be bored running it, that is a sign for me to unsubscribe and play something else which doesn't feel like a job.

    1. I think it comes down to the idea of working toward something, at least for me. Even if it is "boring" so to speak, once you start to over gear it is then it is just quick and easy.

      Kind of like the old school RPG games where you would run in circles killing the same type of mob over and over again waiting for the rare drop. You did not do it because it was fun to grind the mobs, you did it because you deemed the reward at the end was worth the effort.

      I am a very logical person, it is why I would prefer the "earn" your gear method over the "luck" into gear method. And dungeons for valor with valor gear was the perfect thing for me, it kept me playing, because I knew if I needed that chest piece on one of my characters it would be 2250 valor points and that means if I want to I could get it in 2 and a quarter weeks worth of capping, or do a little here and there to get it whenever. It put the power of gearing in my hands and I could take whichever I felt was the most logical approach to getting it for that character.

      Each person enjoys their own style of play and I have made no effort to hide that I prefer to work for my gear. That is why I actually liked doing dungeons over and over. At least when they got faceroll easy, then they became fun.

    2. I can only speak for myself, but I love dungeons.
      I've done tons of them, but I've done enough of them.
      The only reason I do them now is if I am feeling charitable toward strangers in LFG, or if a guildie needs help leveling up (I can tank normal skyreach when they hit level 97), or if a guildie needs legendary quest progress on an alt.

      As a tank, I don't need better gear for heroic raids and I'm only 704 equipped. And if I did need better gear, I am not going to get it from 5-mans or 5-man mythics (at least not until after this new patch comes out).

      So I'm ambivalent. I might do dungeons for better gear, but I am not going to die without it. But if guildies are running dungeons anyway it might be fun content to do together.

      Blizzard doesn't provide easy to get statistics on dungeon completion, but going off the last boss kills, I have done quite a few this expansion.

      Just on my main, I see the following:
      * cataclysm: 382 dungeons (actually higher since the expansion was alt friendly)
      * mists of pandaria: 656
      * warlords of draenor: 251


    3. The armory shows the stats really off. For example, it shows me 36 kills of Heroic Zul'Aman end boss but no kills in Zul'Gurub. Anyway, at a glance, in Wrath, Cata and Mop I did every dungeon around 20-30 ties with a few exceptions (like having 88 Drak'Tharons). For WoD though I have less than 10 of each, and the only one I have 10 of is Iron Docks because that's the absolute only one I get if I queue for a random as a tank (if I queue as a healer it's Grimrail Depot). And I have so many only because I needed resources at some point (because of the shipyard), I finished the Tavern quests and I wanted to do Pepe achi.

      Overall, I dislike the WoD dungeons. Maybe it's the rewards, but mostly I find them ugly and uninteresting and they don't have a special magic feeling. And the queue only gives me two of them, which burned my will to do dungeons.

    4. @regardsanon

      I love dungeons too. It is a fun way to play and unlike most people I actually like when we start to over gear them and can try to do more than intended with big pulls, or in some cases 2 bosses at once, which is really fun.

      I too will offer my tank or healer for instant queues for guild mates or even go on my main just to help them power through it easier. But there has not been much of that as no one seems to want to do dungeons any longer.


      I think it is the rewards. There are no real ones. That is why so very few in guild ever say "running a dungeon, anyone want in" which every expansion previous that was an extremely common line you would see in guild chat.

      There are some bugs with the armory, like one raid I used to solo for all the time shows I only killed the end boss once, which I know is false, and another dungeon it shows I killed the last boss 120 times when I know that can not be possible as I do not recall doing it that often and it is not a mount dropping boss, so I see no reason why I would have. So take armory stats with a grain of salt. However some sound reasonable, I have 60+ for the zuls and as I did them and only them for valor for a long time, so I believe those are probably accurate.

  11. When is the third quarter Blizzard financial statement coming? I presume these changes are in response to what they saw in accounting at the end of the quarter. I am surprised we haven't been seeing weekly store mount sales considering these changes appear to be to stem the bleeding.

    1. I do not know when it is coming out, but as it ended not so long ago I would say soonish. I too read that there was a bit more bleeding for them to make such an unexpected change like this. Guessing, just as anyone else would have to do right now, I would say they had to lose over 500K to make a response like this. So my guess is 800K.

  12. I would like to see them do it a little differently.

    Baleful gear: base is 655 or whatever. Upgrade for apexis to 695. Have a purchasable (valor or apexis) token to change the random stats to a specific stat set.

    Mythic dungeons: base loot as 705, Warforged as 710 or 715

    Valor upgrade tokens for:
    - Warforged token that makes a normal item be Warforged
    - Gem token that adds a gem slot to an item that does not have one
    - Tertiary tokens that sets a specific tertiary stat on an item

    So I wouldn't have the random 5 lvl increments.
    And I wouldn't have the MoP ilvl upgrades.

    In summary, I'd make valor be a way to bypass all the RNG bullshit rather than adding more RNG.

    1. Would love something to change things to specific stats, even if it cost a fair deal. I am about as tired of RNG as any one elf could be.

      I would also love to be able to add gem slots. They make a huge difference and anyone that says they don't is fooling only themselves.

      If valor would be away to completely bypass RNG I would love it even more, I would adopt it, I would give it its own room, I would hug it and squeeze it and call it George.

  13. I like everything about 6.2.3 except for the additional RNG on gear. From 6.0 until now, a perfect piece of gear required the correct secondary stats, war-forged, and a gem socket (and I don't think I've ever gotten any piece of gear with all of this the entire expansion). In 6.2.3 not only do you need all of the above, but you also need to roll the highest possible level of warforged. So now even if you get warforged, socket, right secondaries, the item will still become vendor trash if you get another version that rolls a higher level of warforged. True Diablo-style loot, if Diablo had Ancient+1, Ancient+2, Ancient+3 in increasing rarity at each step, and while Diablo is a fun game, I tend to get burnt out quickly because you hit a point where it takes a massive amount of time to get even a small increase in power.

    1. I got one piece piece like that and I am still wearing it. And I did not even get it myself. Someone else won it and gave it to me. Two best stats, warforged and with a gem slot. It might only be 691 but stat wise I have gotten multiple 710 pieces that can not hold a candle to that piece.

      I do not mind the random if stuff dropped at a good rate. If they want to do random on top of random on top of random, then every single boss you ever kill should drop at least one piece, sometimes more, for you.

      In my opinion that is the only way this much random would ever work. If they flooded you with gear so it made it seem like you actually have a chance. As it is now you kill a boss 17 times, finally win one piece, and it is basic, now you have to kill it another 250 times before you get a good one. Hell not, that is horrible design. My opinion only of course, but I am not a fan of it. Killing a boss 17 times and getting nothing makes you want to quit, it does not make it exciting because it "might" be warforged.

  14. why they didnt enable after world first ? cause even being top 100 is still a good achievement and having split raids abuse that is NOT F$@(I$(@# FUN

    1. I can surely understand that. A lot of friends that run in competitive guilds tell me they got burnt out this expansion running split raids. It would not surprise me if that is one of the key reasons many top level guilds have broken up this expansion, it just got to be too much.