Monday, March 16, 2015

Monday Random Thoughts

- Have you ever had a dream about warcraft?

- I had a weird on last night.

- Not about a boss we are working on, an achievement I am hunting for, or a rare mount I want to drop.

- No, those are standard things that might enter someones subconscious and be found in a dream.

- It was as if I was dreaming about another expansion completely, different zones, different raids.

- Perhaps it is my subconscious mind telling me what my conscious mind already knows.

- I am ready to move on from draenor.

- There is nothing more to explore here.

- Nothing more I am interested in at least.

- You usually forget most of your dreams and are just left with fleeting images.

- But there was one raid fight I remember a bit about.

- It was a vehicle fight but not really, more a special duty fight.

- One that you would not always put the hunter on, like usual.

- Can't recall what the heck we are fighting, but one person need to be in a machine on the left, one on the right and one in the middle.

- It would make the fight "easier" to be in the machines, but it could be done without them, just much harder.

- Kind of a varied difficulty level depending on which machines you choose to use, if any.

- Maybe an achievement tied to doing it without any of them.

- Yeah, I have weird dreams sometimes.

- At least on the rare occasion I remember them.

- Or bits of them.

- I finally won something off the new pet battle they added with the patch.

- Everyone else I know is on their 4th or 5th pet, I am just happy to have my first.

- On the bright side, I have way more pocket lint than all of them.

- I bet they are so jealous.

- A friend that had quit the game during cataclysm came back recently and has been leveling up.

- He mentioned he was on a quest that lead him into a dungeon and he did not realize it and tried to do it and got stomped on by the elites.

- Who of us has not done that?

- I know I have in the past.

- I offered to come help him out.

- I said I can solo mists dungeons no problem.

- He said, really?

- I said, I was soloing them on heroic at 90, I don't think they will be a problem at 100.

- I then realized he was 92.

- What the hell are you still doing in mists content, you should be on draenor already.

- I picked up him, brought him over to timeless island to open a few chests, crafted him a 630 weapons and then pushed him through the dark portal and said, see you on the other side.

- He was just questing through mists content and being he was leveling he thought that was where he was supposed to be.

- As he was 92 in the summit I can guess two things.

- They really sped up leveling in mists, and he must have been doing every quest.

- He sounded completely lost.

- Everything he knew about the game was changed, different.

- This is a guy who downed heroic lich king back when it was current.

- He might have not been tops in the world or anything, but he knew the basic ins and outs enough.

- And here he was coming back feeling completely lost.

- The game needs to change to keep moving forward, no one will deny that, but from his questions and knowing he was a good player before that understood things, it is just proof that they changed way too much.

- Basically he took some time off and came back to a game that is not the game he remembered.

- That is why so many returning players just turn around and quit.

- They came back to play the game they like and this is not the same game any more.

- So yes, things need to change, but they also need to stay the same enough that people who left can come back without feeling the disconnected that he is feeling.

- If it were not for him running in me and others that knew him and are helping him now he would have quit again already.

- It is not that things changed for him, he could accept change.

- It is that they are completely foreign to him.

- The game as it is now is not the warcraft he knew moving forward, it is a completely different game.

- Having played all this time and been around for all the changes it is harder for me to see.

- But viewing it through his eyes, I understand.

- Maybe that game is more welcoming to new players, because they do not have the past to grasp to, than it is to returning players who are trying to remember it as it was and seeing nothing familiar.

- And we already know that warcraft is not a very welcoming place for new players to begin with.

- Can't wait to see what the sub numbers are like in 3 or 6 months.

- When people like him that came back and didn't have friends to help them along just got scared away because of the huge sweeping changes.

- Speaking of changes, they can not add flying back soon enough.

- Where is it already?

- Went to do some digs for archaeology and once I finished one site and saw the other was all the way up top around all those hills in nagrand I started to head there and said, screw it, and went back to my garrison.

- I really seriously despise nagrand for that reason and that reason only.

- All that wasteful boring running around for no reason other than to make the game seem fuller.

- You know what would make the game seem fuller to me?

- Flying.

- If I could fly I would have continued with archaeology.

- Instead I went back to my garrison, tried to get into a few groups, had no luck, logged out and went to watch reruns of NCIS.

- It was more entertaining that anything warcraft had to offer without flying, that is for sure.

- Speaking of not being able to get into any groups, that was my entire weekend.

- On a 661 warrior.

- Ruk group, tank or DPS, declined instantly.

- Ruk group, tank or DPS, wait 5 minutes and it times out.

- Ruk group, tank or DPS, it was on auto accept, Ruk was already dead when I zoned in and people were leaving group, darn, too late.

- Ruk group, tank or DPS, wait 5 minutes and it times out.

- Ruk group, tank or DPS, wait a little over 2 minutes, declined.

- Ruk group, tank or DPS, declined about 30 seconds in.

- Ruk group, tank or DPS, declined instantly, but this one was my fault, they only had 3 more spots and it did say healers only, I just did not read, can't blame them for the decline.

- Ruk group, tank or DPS, waited just shy of four minutes to get declined.

- Ruk group, tank or DPS, declined about 2 minutes in.

- Why am I even still trying?

- Stopped trying, logged out for the night at the pull site and said screw this game for the night.

-  Next day as I am cycling through starting missions on all my characters I log into my warrior, having forgot I left him there.

- I figured I would look for a group instead of just going back to do missions.

- Hey, I am already there right?

- First attempt, wait 5 minutes and it times out.

- Second attempt, declined after 2 minutes.

- Third attempt, declined 1 minute in from a group that didn't even have a tank which left me scratching my head.

- Forth attempt I get into a group that is just starting.

- I wait, roughly 45 minutes before we pull.

- I get gold and gold.

- Admittedly there was only one thing I could have used from there so getting what I needed was a slim chance and then adding my luck to the mix it was an absolute zero chance.

- But after all that waiting and annoyance it would have been nice to win something for the effort.

- Or at least win more gold.

- This case I only died once, so the winning gold and rolling gold at least covered my repair costs, but most times even with all the gold from the boss and rolling it doesn't even come close to touching the cost of the repair.

- It is just not worth trying to get into groups for the world boss.

- Sure I wanted a shot at the mount, and I was looking for that one upgrade I could get, but screw it, for that long of a wait, it is just not worth it.

- I think I have come to a conclusion for my alts.

- It would be faster to farm for gold to buy a carry than it would to try to get into a group that can actually do the content.

- If you ask me, that is a HUGE design flaw on blizzards part.

- When you can farm enough gold to pay for a carry through content faster than you can find a group capable of doing the content, that means the content isn't tuned correctly for the masses.

- Joined a highmaul heroic pug on my priest trying to get some gear.

- Yes, I like to keep my alts at least slightly geared, you have a problem with that?

- Somehow ended up as co lead of it after the first boss.

- On braken I say, I'll pop shrooms.

- First mushroom spawns and is instantly healed.

- We survive, I type in raid, "do not heal schrooms until I pop them" in all caps.

- Next one spawns, healed instantly, we wipe.

- I ask my friend who is co leading this pug if he noticed who it was that was healing it, I had not noticed.

- He didn't.

- My own fault for not paying closer attention.

- I stress it once again, do not heal the mushrooms, I will handle when to pop them, once up you can help keep them up, but I, and only me, should be healing them at first.

- Next pull, the second the mushroom spawns I see the other disc priest spin with a penance.

- I call for an instant wipe, kick the priest, make some changes, and we down it on the next attempt.

- How hard it is the really follow that one simple rule?

- And even as a priest, if you are afraid I might not be quick enough you shield it, CoW it, you can protect it without actually healing it.

- If you do not know when to pop it, you should keep away from it, simple really.

- Why was that priest healing it when they were told not to multiple times.

- I don't get people sometimes.

- Well, most times actually.

- I really think I am disconnected from the rest of the player base most of the time.

- As if I live in one world and everyone else lives in another.

- And their world just wants to destroy mine.

- Yesterday I decided I wanted to do something on my hunter, so I figured I would look through the group finder listing and see if there was anything interesting I could join.

- I spent the better part of 2 hours trying to find a group.

- Garrison raid invasions, wait 5 minutes, times out.

- Someone just looking for a third for their invasion, I said in comment, I'll help, declined.

- Someone looking for help on first boss of BWL saying it can not be soloed, I put, I'll help and show you how you can solo it for next time, declined.

- Time after time I keep applying to things just to help other people, not things I needed, just looking for something to do to have some fun, maybe meet some new people, make new friends, to play a game, and I get declined.

- Figured just doing something for "fun" was out of the question because apparently people that want help don't want my help, so lets see if I can do some raids, just for practice.

- BRF heroic, fresh, I put I have 9/10 experience, get declined after 2 minutes.

- BRF heroic, on maidens, I put know fight, will do boat, get declined within seconds.

- BRF heroic, on operator, I put know fights and train patterns, get declined.

- I try a few more, in progress, declined, fresh, declined, in progress declined, fresh, declined.

- I figure I'll just shoot for normal, I over gear it by a fair margin, I just want some practice, maybe it will be easier getting into one of those.

- Declined, declined, declined, declined, declined.

- I am sensing a pattern here.

- I try for haghmaul heroic, even highmaul normal.

- Declined, declined, declined.

- Screw it, maybe people don't want hunters, maybe they just don't want me.

- I am feeling very unwanted right about now.

- I just logged off and did not log back on again for the weekend.

- I know it is just a streak of bad luck.

- They could have just as easily accepted my under geared rogue which I suck at as decline my well geared hunter which I am capable with.

- Just luck of the draw.

- But I can't help but feel as if I am starting to get a complex.

- And this is why I wish they still had the old system in play.

- I would much rather just list my name as looking for a heroic BRF run, any boss, and go about doing those annoying because we do not have flying dig sites in nagrand while I wait for someone to find me.

- At least that way I would have been playing the game as opposed to what happened.

- I wasted two hours trying to find a group and ended up logging off wondering if the game is worth 15 dollars a month any more.

- Please blizzard, add back the old way of letting me list what I am looking for.

- Because at this rate, I am not sure how many more declines I can take before I just give up.

- And yes, I know I can start my own group.

- That is not the issue.

- If I wanted to "run" a group I would.

- I just wanted to join a group that I can sit back and pew pew in.

- I guess you can't always get what you want.

- Mick was right.

- Have a great day.


  1. I feel your pain. In EU-Draenor as a Hunter i get the same results.. 7/10 BRF hc experience - always denied. I even offer to do the flamethrowers on bracken. Denied. And when i do get in a group there's loot drama.. If you ever wanna try in my server I'll get you in one of our guild runs of hc brf in a heartbeat :)

    1. Sadly I am US but thank you for the offer.

      Hunters are in a very good place. I wonder why it seems like they have issues getting groups. I've had better luck getting groups on my low geared rogue than on my high geared hunter. It makes no sense sometimes.

    2. Only thing I can guess is that everyone is playing a hunter. We have 5 hunters in our raid group of 13-14 right now. I can't afford to take more hunters. I've already had to decline 2 others who wanted to join because we already have so many.

    3. Did the LFRs this week, a few of them, and I don't think any group had less than 5. One group had 11.

  2. Quoting you "I am ready to move on from draenor."

    Now obviously there is going to be a patch 6.2 at some point, and likely a patch 6.3 which will bring the Tanaan Jungle stuff and the second raid tier, as they said that there would only be two this expansion. Although, with what you said in a previous post they have kinda treated Highmaul and Blackrock Foundry as separate tiers in a way. I wouldn't know myself but you said Highmaul was now old content or something.

    Anyway, my point is that it's March. Blizzcon is in November. I had hoped based on what they had said about a shorter expansion cycle, and given only two raid tiers it would really need to be, that they would announce the next expansion somewhere else. However, they were never going to do that. They will announce it at blizzcon. Even assuming that beta starts soon after, which I find reasonably doubtful given that they say blizzcon takes a lot of effort, there's thanksgiving and then Christmas etc. I'm thinking it's going to be likely the new year before beta comes out. Then six months for a beta and we're looking at a release date of summer after next.

    You are 'done' with Draenor now. How will you feel in 15 months time? Obviously as I said there's going to be more patches but depending on what they add, they may or may not help.

    My second point is about content. I am a bit pathetic socially. I know that sounds odd given that I used to be a raid leader but that was somehow different. I knew those people, they were friends of a sort, and even when I had to get random pugs in to help us, I still had the people I knew with me. I have a fear I suppose of random people.

    The only times I ever signed up for anything on OpenRaid was if someone I knew was going too, and even then I didn't do it very often. I only ran LFR if I ran with a friend, you get the picture.

    The only content I could ever run on my schedule was dungeons. For some reason I didn't fear them the way I feared everything else. Maybe because they were short, maybe because I felt I could influence the outcome of the encounters better, maybe because I grew to knew them so well I was comfortable doing them.

    Well you talk of the group finder and I won't use it. I'm not in a guild anymore, I play solo, I solo old raids, run around the garrison and do Brawlers Guild. I would like to do group content, in as much as I want to tank, but there's no content that suits me anymore. I know this is an MMO and I'm not unwilling to play with others, it just needs to be on a smaller scale.

    1. My comment was too long. Ooops.

      This is kinda what I was getting at I think in my last comment. Blizz has taken away options. In my opinion there is less content in Draenor and most of it is concentrated in a couple of areas. There is a lot less choice. Sure I could run dungeons, I know that and so why am I complaining right? Because blizz doesn't support running dungeons. I could run them just because I want to, and sometimes I do, but I want to get some accomplishment from my playtime, and running dungeons gets me nothing but the act of running them.

      I'm not sure I'm making sense here. Basically you hate that blizz removed an option of the group finder. You want to just list your name and get in a group and pew, pew sometimes. You keep logging out as there's nothing for you to personally do. Well, you want to do one thing, I want to do another but we have the same problem. So I keep choosing not to play, and it seems that sometimes you choose not to play too.

      Warlords bumped up sub numbers considerably. I haven't voted with my wallet so I'm still in that number. I wonder how many have dropped out, in all honesty I wouldn't like to speculate as I don't want to assume my experience is universal. Maybe everyone else loves how things are now. Your post seems to suggest otherwise but who knows. If there's no appreciable drop then blizz definitely won't ever change anything, not that they are likely to anyway, but they won't have any motive to as why change what seems to work so well for them.

    2. I had already considered HM and BRF as two separate raid tiers before and now they are increasing the item level of BRF gear because people were still doing HM as some of that gear was still nice, itemization wise. If that is not proof they want BRF to be a separate tier from HM I don't know what is.

      WoD will have to go at least another year from now, or damn near close to it. Even if we had a new expansion one year from today it would probably be a bigger rushed mess than this one was. There is no way in hell this does not turn out to be another 2 year, or damn close to it, expansion.

      I am completely with you on being a bit anti social that way. I like to raid with people I know. I hate pugs, I hate that I feel I have to do pugs, I hate that there is no way to get gear outside of raiding which makes me feel I have to do pugs. I do not like raiding with people I do not know but I do not have any choice. It is not a good position to be in, feeling like I have to do something I don't like doing to enjoy a game I shouldn't need to be doing that to enjoy.

      Blizzard has removed so many options, you are right. I called them out on it at the end of mists when they started removing things left and right. I called them out on the beta when I saw nothing there hoping they would add more. Thing is, I think I am alone at this point. While there are many, like you, that agree with me, none of them seem to be vocal any more. It is like they have all been beaten into submission by blizzard and willing to accept anything that is thrown at them blindly.

      They need valor gear back, they need relevant 5 mans, they need small raid size content, even mythic, they need options, they have none.

    3. I'll tell you what sub numbers will look like soon, from two guilds perspectives. Two active ones I am in.

      My main guild, when the expansion came out, we had over 50 people online, day or night, all the time. I don't think I had ever seen that many on consistently. Now, on a non raid night, if there are 5 people on it is a lot.

      My second guild, which was about the same style of raiding guild as mine had their last raid of this tier last week. They beat blackhand, the gearing process is not fun, they do not have enough for mythic, so their raid event even was titled, last raid of 6.1, They had over 100 people on at any given time at the start. Yesterday, during prime time on what was normally a raid night, there were 3 on. One being me.

      It is only two guild and a very small sampling, but from those alone I can tell you two things for sure. WoD bought back more people that anyone could have expected. And the second thing is, it did not keep any of them and actually chased off more.

  3. I feel both of you. Like a cat, I have my moments of being around others or going solo. I retire from the Navy in 3 months and my play time has been reduced drastically. WOW is still a means of venting my frustration and relaxation. But I will say that things just aren't as fun as they used to be.

    I think that Wrath was the most fun for me. Lots of friends online, an obvious goal (down Arthas) and even though ICC was around for over a year, it was such a great raid that it was still fun (to be anyway). I am finding it harder and harder to justify paying $15 a month. I dropped WOW once before Aug 2013 because we downed Garrosh and doing Timeless Isle for another year didn't appeal to me. Reputation grinds/dailies for alts proved that Mists was the "alt killer".

    So now that WoW has allowed "veteran accounts" (which are limited to any toons you have at are 20 and below, a la trial account), I will be gearing up a few twink level 20 toons to see me through whenever my subscription expires (Apr unless something major changes).

    I will be logging in to communicate with friends and do BG's and the occasional dungeon if I feel like it.

    I think when Ghostcrawler left, things at Blizzard went South.

    1. Wrath did seem to have the best over all feel in my opinion as well and based on so many polls that have been done it seems to be the overwhelming favorite. And as time passes nothing changes. So it is not rose tinted glasses as much as people say or other expansions would have taken away from it and they haven't. If anything they have made people think even more fondly of it.

      I've never been a big fan of ghostcrawlers, still am not, but I can see some of the connections for things that have changed were I now view him as the lesser of two evils.

      I think blizzard should expand that veterans account to a higher level based on the number of years you were a paid subscriber. It might help them bait some people back. Not sure I would ever suggest coming back however.

  4. The experience of your returning friend kind of baffles me. I find it hard to believe somebody that familiar with wow of any era could feel lost.

    I started playing in Vanilla about a year before BC was released. I quit after my little guild downed heroic Lich King. I came back just before WoD launched when I heard that Cata and MoP were added free for returning players. The game is not very different in any meaningful way. Apart from having to spend 5 minutes looking over the reworked talents on my long dormant characters, there was really nothing preventing me from just picking it up where I left off.

    If I were interested in investing the time and effort I did during BC and early Wrath, then I would probably be disappointed, especially with the small group content. But I find the current game to be just about right for me for a few reasons.

    The garrisons are a simple, quick way to advance my characters if I don't really have the time for anything else. I can cycle through my three level 3 garrisons in about 10-12 minutes. That covers collecting and reassigning missions, building queues, and my daily profession cooldowns. I haven't bothered with the mine or herb garden for months - I find gathering to be a waste of time because...

    The mobile AH on the phone app is so far superior to the actual in game auction house it is crazy. No mail box/bank/bags management. No running back and forth in game and wasting my limited play time. I can spend 5 minutes, twice a day, from anywhere, and buy/sell everything I need to. I was never an AH guru, more of a hoarder that made some gold here and there selling what I'd collected. With minimal effort I've grown my bankroll to almost 300,000 gold only through the mobile app. In the time it takes for my lunch to heat up in the office microwave. $15 isn't burdensome, but I'm sure I'll just pay my sub with gold once the token goes live.

    When I actually log in to play in the evenings I can jump right into whatever it is I want to do. I'll take 10 minutes of garrison maintenance over an hour+ of mindless argent tournament dailies every time.

    I guess I just don't understand all the hate for this expansion. I don't find it as engaging as Vanilla or BC was, but I think that is as much because of changes in my life as it is to changes to the game. I'd have burned out long ago if I played as much as you do, but that isn't what I'm after. The core game is basically the same as it ever was, at least that is how I see it.

    1. It sort of baffles me as well. He was one of the ones that taught me the right gems to put in my gear and how hunters needed spell pen for PvP, even if others might laugh at the idea back then. He was knowledgeable. I can understand it being a little rough starting off coming back, but he seems genuinely lost.

      I actually like the expansion, don't get me wrong, but I think it is time for something else. I think garrisons were an awesome idea and I burnt myself out on it by having so many alts. I see that as where the hate really comes from, alts. Nearly every complaint I ever see in the game pertains to them. Mists dailies? Wasn't that they were there that bothered people, wasn't even that you "had" to do them to open valor gear, it was that your alts had to do it. Stuff like that is where the hate comes from. If anyone with a fair amount of free time there is not enough to keep them busy with 1 character, but too much "busy work" for many. It is a hard balance and I do not envy the position blizzard is in, because I am not sure it is a battle they can ever win.

  5. You just reminded me that I haven't had a pet from Erris either. I suppose my consolation is that I've got as much Pocket Lint as you.

    Usually I beat Erris on auto-pilot, but today I guessed wrong about when to swap in my lowbie, and the carry pet died. No problem; just heal and reset. But when I re-engaged, though the pets were the same, their abilities had been re-arranged. Uuuurk? Oh. Excellent! After the nerfs, maybe Blizzard are going to put some challenge back by introducing more AI, or at least RNG, to the trainers, and maybe into some more challenging fights. We can hope.

    Group Finder is weird. I was doing nothing much one night and saw a party "Black Temple please help I can't solo it" or something like that, and since I hadn't done it this week, and I still need two of the new pets, hey, why not? And I was Rejected. I mean, huh? A level 100 - any level 100 - is a bit overqualified for the job, dontcha think? We need some kind of brand to put on group names to say there's a sane human being on the other end.

    A lot of returners do seem to have a very hard time, and I haven't quite got a handle on it. A couple that I've communicated with seem lost, and isolated. Perhaps they're used to having people around at their own level, so that somebody knows what the thing to do is. Of course, nowadays, nobody is anybody else's level for more than an hour, so it's hard to keep gameplay contacts below 100. The loss of talent trees and trainer requirements is also a common theme.

    P.S. Couldn't you get to the archaeology site handily with the Feather?

    1. I think the same about people returning. They recall being around friends, doing stuff with them and now are on their own and a lot of things have changed (obviously). They have to pick things up alone. Imagine how you would feel if the guild you were raiding with and had loads of fun with is still there, being in a raid right now, working on Mythinc or something, while you are trying to figure out what this pet battle tab does and where to go next. Maybe asking for help would feel bad, maybe they don't have time. And maybe you realize that even if you level and all, you're not going to be part of their raiding team again, you're to far behind.

      Change in itself shouldn't be a deterrent or anything new. I think it's just the difference between expecting to have the same fun you had with friends and coming to see you have to do stuff alone (for a while at least).

    2. @Gráinne

      Don't you go stealing any of my pocket lint or I will have to send a murloc after you. ;)

      I go into those fights with whatever I have one me. Sometimes it leaves me with a really bad match up. Can't say I noticed ability changing on attempts but honestly I did not pay that much attention. If they start giving the AI some actually intelligence, we will never be able to beat some of them. I am glad they are patterns. Some would be downright scary if they were not.

      I tried to help groups like that too and got declined. Makes me think we were trolled.

      I could get their faster with the feather but being there is a cooldown and I am one of those, why use it when I might need it later types, I never use it "in case" I need it later. Which I never do. I am bad, I know. Habits are hard to break.


      I am sure that is a lot of it. People coming back feeling as if the can just ease right back in and they can't. So it becomes harder on them, even more so if they are not willing to ask the questions or have people that are willing to answer them.

  6. I started playing in Wrath, when my work colleagues gifted me a WoW chestbox.
    I was playing single player RPGs - Baldur's Gate, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Fallout so I expected anything with RPG in its name to have meaningful results for my choices.

    I clearly recall how bad I thought the game was. How bland I found the quests, how little I could affect anything. I soon realized what everybody did, that I don't even have to properly read quest lines (mostly skim through, unless something catches my eye) because they don't really contribute to make an epic story, being completely generic. I was disappointed. I hated WoW quests for a very long time.

    I kept my points for many levels, I didn't want to make the wrong 'choice', didn't know you could reset. I didn't know about roles right. I didn't know about proper gear right. I wear a mix of anything that seemed to look good on me, regardless of what it had - int, agi, spirit, plate, mail, cloth etc. I ventured into dungeons and grindid them, thinking that it was how it was supposed to be. The game was never helpful. Still the same crap. Still without my friend telling me how things work and me researching things on my own, I was mostly 'lost'. But I was willing to learn, to adapt, because it was new. I knew i didn't have the experience other players had, I knew I hadn't experienced vanilla or bc so didn't know a lot of things. But I wanted to see where it would go, I wanted to find the fun in it others have told me about.

    Yet I still felt the game was bad. I wanted to quit after the first month. Then my friend suggested we level together on horde this time and I made my tank. And I enjoyed tanking. He was healer and he was making groups (no LFD back then) for us and it was fun.

    But this got old soon too and once I hit 80, I did dailies and all but it soon became boring. I wanted to quit again. He recommended a raiding guild. I looked for one on trade chat. Found one. Made friends. Started raiding. And everything is history, as they say.

    What is my point with this story? Basically, I want to say that I think people can't honestly tell the difference between "I used to do dungeons or raid with friends and it was fun" and "I'm doing stuff solo now and it's not fun anymore". People blame blizz that an expansion has or doesn't have enough content or is not offering enough for their onterest or whatever. But the truth is, WoW was never a good single player game. Never. Not compared to any of the other single player games. In Wrath, if you weren't social, willing to look for groups over trade chat or were friends with someone who did that, you had no place. You had nothing, but questing and some rep grinds. And older content, ofc, but you have that now too.
    What WAS fun was friends. And in time friends stop playing. We get older. We're not willing to go around looking for friends anymore, we already did that. We feel mostly alone and anti social and blame blizz of how they took away options from us and how much fun it was back in Wrath compared to now. I think we should look at ourselves more.

    I'm not defending Blizz, they make mistakes. But the fun was never in doing stuff alone, being anti social. When it was new, maybe it was interesting experiencing stuff at your own pace, doing solo stuff, but later on it gets boring, you need friends, you need people to do 'end content' with. I could argue there's more stuff to do as single player now than ever before (like pet battles), yet people still don't see where the fun actually came 'back in Vanilla / TBC / Wrath etc".

    1. I pretty much agree with this. People make the game. When Swtor first came out, I know it got a lot of hate but I loved it. I had an absolute blast and I still do everytime I login. That game is just pure fun to me.

      However, I have never played it much. I mean to but with limited hours in the day we have to choose one thing over another. As fun as Swtor was and is I always used to choose Warcraft over it because my friends were there. Swtor was strictly solo, Warcraft I played with friends and friends won everytime.

      Is the fact that I play warcraft solo now affecting my feelings about it? Quite probably. I don't have the same level of emotional investment, it's just a game like any other and has to stand or fall on it's own merits, it doesn't have the big plus point of friends anymore.

      However, I did honestly usually queue for dungeons solo. I would ask in guild first if anyone wanted an insta-queue as I was a tank but I had no problems running them alone. With relevant drops for alts and point gear, even running one dungeon I felt like I had accomplished something in my play session.

      I don't deny that no longer playing with friends has changed things. However, I do firmly argue that the feeling of accomplishment is gone. For someone who doesn't raid it is very difficult to get better gear, to progress on a character so that character can do what I want it too e.g pass this tricky Brawlers Guild boss or solo Mists raids or just plain make farming faster and easier.

      So yeah I agree with you. You are not wrong but I do believe that there is still more to it.

    2. @James

      I still love all those classes single player RPGs. Been so long since I played one. They were great. Heck, they were what got me into wow to begin with.

      I did the same with my points. I did not want to put any into anything because of fear of choosing the wrong thing.

      I do agree, it is the people that keep me coming back. They are why I still play. And it is my unwillingness to play with new people or meet new people lately that has hurt my enjoyment of the game because, as you said, wow is not a very good single player game.

      I would have to agree with sam however in the idea that even if wow was never a good single player game there always was a way to feel as if you were making some progression solo, which there is none now. And that, even if lame game play, means something to people.

  7. I nominate you for Liebster Award Challenge :)

    1. I shall have to remember to do this one day this week. But I am horribly forgetful. Wish I saw this before I wrote todays post.