Wednesday, February 25, 2015

6.1 Impressions, Observations, Opinions and Gripes

6.1 was released and as I mentioned yesterday I had a lot of plans on what I would check out.  Sadly the most important thing to me I was not able to do.  Boo, bad form blizzard.

Profession Traders:

Don't know what it was like on your server but the only profession trader anyone on my server had was the fur trader.  Sure I know the idea now is to get people to make "friends" and if they do not have the particular visitor they want they can go to a friends garrison to get it.  My tailor did not have the fur trader which meant I needed to visit a friend.  Of my seven level 100 characters the only one to have the fur trader was my warrior.  How many warrior tailors are there out there?

Bad form blizzard, seriously bad form.  Sure random is random but how can no one on the entire server have the ore trader or the leather trader?  I was really looking forward to upgrading my ring and gun as soon as I logged on and was told by blizzard "sucks to be you".  Not a good feeling at all.

Personally I believe there should have been one trader that sold all items and it should have been in every garrison.  Being that did not happen, the least you could have done is not make it share a spawn with the raid quest giver, dungeon quest giver, relic hunter quest giver or world quest giver.  Every garrison should have had some vendor of some sort and they should have not all been the exact same one, fur vendor in my case.  Once again I must say, bad form blizzard, bad form.

If they were going to have the vendor appear in only some garrisons it should have sold all the patterns.  That is my opinion on the matter.


I got my BRF mission on my main after getting 2 characters to 660.  A few others in guild told me they had the same experience.  So it seems you need 2 of the appropriate item level to trigger it.  I can live with the change, not a huge one, but I think it would have been better if they left it at only needing one.

Two of my other characters however did not get a BRF mission at all.  Maybe I needed to raid to get it?  I did not need to raid to get the HM missions.  Sure if I wanted better gear on those alts from those missions raiding would be advisable but at least I still got those missions.  On two characters I got at least 2 followers to 660 I did not get a BRF mission at all.  Can we say bad form again?  Apparently it is either bugged or you need to raid to open them up.  Kind of defeats the purpose of having them to help my alts that are not raiding if I need to raid to get them doesn't it?

I should note for some that might not have noticed but you can over level garrison missions as well.  My three 660s on my main only had a 92% chance to complete the mission but when I upgraded them all to 670 they had a 100% chance.  So even if it advises 660, having higher does help.  This is certain as I saw it yesterday.

The work rush order missions appeared on a few of my characters.  Those are nice little additions.  For those that are wondering, if you are on the legendary quest line using the rush order can get you items toward its progression.  I will repeat, yes you can get legendary pieces from the rush orders.  I did.  Now that is good form blizzard.  Finally a plus one for you.

The archeology missions are a nice way to get some quick fragments, I like them.  My main did not get a selfie camera mission but two of my alts did.  So that is 2 out of 7 got the camera mission, so I guess it will not be a first day thing.  One character got a mission for savage blood, one got a mission for 20 primal spirits, one got a mission for a bag of spec specific augment runes, these are all new missions and a nice addition.  I am sure there are other good ones out there, can't wait to see them all.

Pets and Pet Battles:

I could have sworn I read somewhere they were making the pet battles easier?  Not like they needed to be as I personally have a team that can beat any trainer usually with little or no trouble, so I figured this would make them easier.  Boy oh boy was I wrong.

Pet battles have been made harder.  Since when does harder mean easier?  Maybe in blizzards bizarro world harder means easier.  I'll give just one example. 

The trainer in the vale was always a great one where you could level up a new pet, even from level 1.  Have your idol put up sand storm and your level one takes no damage.  Don't work that way now apparently.  No more leveling level one pets that way.  Thanks blizzard, that surely made pet battles easier.

I did not get to try any of the raids for new pets yet but I do have one new pet to report.  After buying the new cooking patterns I went and made myself over 300 of the multistrike food and finally managed to get the lil leftovers pet.  Woot woot, go me.

A free level 25 pet thanks to a stone?  I don't see how anyone would not like that.


Okay first things first.  Why is this not account wide blizzard?  Seriously I can leave this as the entire comment on this topic and it would say it all but you know me and I won't.  I am quite long winded that way.

I can see needing to go through the beginning quest on all characters to get it on your garrison, I am fine with that, but why are the scrolls not account wide?  Haven't you learned that things which could be considered collections are better off being account wide.  Pets, mounts, heirlooms, toys.

It would have been nice if they did not make the same mistake they made with the blue prints from the garrisons and make them a per character thing.  Guess they did not learn from that.  Even simple little collections like this would go over better, in my opinion, if they were account wide.

I really do not want to travel the world and waste my time on every single character to change the music in my garrison.  I will do it on one and I might even use it, but I am not going to waste my time on alts.  I will do the opening quest just to get the damn quest marker off my screen but the collecting scrolls can go screw itself.  I am not collecting this on every single character blizzard, and I should not have to.  Bad form blizzard, bad form.

I also wonder what is with blizzard and trying to promote PvP with things like this. The alliance need to basically go hug the banshee queen whereas the horde need to stand in front of tyrande and hope she is in a forgiving mood for their intrusion.

Does blizzard really think this is a good way to get people into PvP?  Sending them into an area where they are sure to be slaughtered just for something silly like a song to play in your garrison.  People doing this either want the song or are completion nuts like me that just want to have them all.  They do not want to get into PvP.  If anything I think this would leave a bad taste in someones mouth in terms of PvP having to go into enemy territory and get slaughtered for something like a song.  Seriously blizzard needs to stop adding PvP into things like this.  It has no place what so ever.


I cycled through my lowbie characters until I had enough for the 35 heirloom achievement and then stopped looking for them.  I am currently at 40 and I know I have many more once I get around to them.  I think most veteran players like myself will probably have no issue getting the 35 achievement.

Love the mount, it is funny having someone drive you around.  Sucks it does not scale with mount speed, really no use using it outside of that pre 20 level.  But still a fun little mount I guess.

Did you see the prices to upgrade that stuff?  I feel bad for the people that did not have most of it already.  Ouch.  I bet there will be more people that will be siding with me now saying they want the return of justice points.  It will cost someone a mini fortune to get all those things if they wanted them and never had any.  Hope you are good at making gold my friend.

Stacks and Numbers:

It was nice to see stack sizes increased greatly on many things like primal spirits.  That was a great update.  I do have one request however, how about making all warlords based crafting materials stack to 1000 as well.   It is needed, really really needed.  My mains bank is filled with herbs, my secondary alchemists bank is filled with herbs and my third is just starting to fill his.  And that is not even counting the stack or so every other character hangs on to in case it is the trading post material of the day.  Yes, stacks of all warlords based crafting materials being increased to 1000 would be most welcome.  You did it with some things, now do it right and do it with everything from warlords.

Have you noticed that now when you go to craft something it does not show your commodities listed like **/20 but 8.7K/20.  That is freaking awesome.  I love it.  Such a simple change and it really made my day to see that.  Little things matter and this one was a great change, one I did not even see mentioned.  Please do not tell me that I am the only person that notices things like this and the only person that loves the change as simple as it is.  Someone else out there has to be a weirdo like me.

Work Orders:

There was one major change to work orders.  A button to do all at once instead of hitting it over and over and that is a good change.  Nothing else to say there.  Or maybe there is.

You can now get missions that reward you rush orders to rush complete 5 orders.  You can also buy rush orders for garrison resources if you happen to have a fair deal of them.  This too is pretty nice if you happen to be flush with supplies.  Even more so knowing you can get some of the items needed for the legendary quest line through rushing, but still at the very low chance, so it is not really a reliable way to do so.  But it surely is something worth doing if you happen to get the rush orders for free from a mission.  Don't know if I would ever go so far as buying rush orders trying to move the legendary quest alone.  Unless of course I ended the week needing one.  Then I might.


What is this twitter you speak of?  Best thing I have to say about this is that I never even noticed it was added to the game and that is absolutely fantastic on every level.  Not only did I not notice it was added but at no point ever while playing did the game try to push me to activate it or even let me know it was there.  Nice move here blizzard, not shoving stuff like this down our throats.  I appreciate that a lot.

BRF LFR Wing 2:

While not actually a part of 6.1 as it is 6.0 content being time released slowly but being it came out at the same time 6.1 did I will comment on it here.

We are back to the days of LFR being a nightmare.  Sorry folks but blizzard learned nothing from HM wing 1 where everyone, including me, loved the LFR and was willing to do it because it was as it should be, face roll even with horrible players.  We are back to nightmare city.

The last boss should be receiving a nerf soon, very soon, I can sense it.  Actually I would not be surprised if they already nerfed it and being I did not check before writing this I had not noticed it.  We wiped and wiped and wiped.

I must admit our first wipe was my fault too.  I own up to my mistakes and I made one huge mistake.  But it was not just me, it was a few others as well.  When we all got grabbed I had myself positioned in a good place for maximum barrage coverage.   Just like a good hunter should right?  Well, not in LFR at least.  I hit barrage and broke out nearly everyone almost instantly and wiped half the raid.  Who knew the hands would shatter so quickly if you sneezed on them.  I apologize to everyone that I was in that raid with.  It was not my intention to kill you all.

We wiped because of that phase multiple times.  After the first time I behaved myself.  I knew I could break people out easy so I did not attack until his cast was almost done.  Sure I broke people out quickly, but we all still died because apparently this LFR is like all others and carried on the backs of healers and the healers could not keep us up taking the constant damage in the hands.  On well, determination fixed it.  That is the only reason we got it down.  Had to wait until determination was high enough for the healers to help us survive that phase.  The first time we made it through that phase with minimal losses we finished it.

Yeap, this needs to be nerfed, huge.  One decent geared player can wipe the group by breaking people out to quick and poor healers will ensure you need lots of stacks of determination before you can survive it.

Bag Space:

I must make a note of another issue I have with the additions.  So many more things to fill our bag space, really?  All the different mission things alone have to be worth 20 or so bag spaces if you happen to have them all.  Blizzard, thanks for all the space you gave us this expansion, but it is already all used, stop giving us more junk to take up space.  Please please please.  Or just give us more space again.


I have not had one yet so I will leave this just as a comment on it and to ask if anyone got platinum and how was it?  Did they increase spawn rate.  I sure hope they did.  Some are hard enough to get gold on sometimes with bad RNG for spawns.

I did a shadowmoon the other day to help a friend and we did not get gold.  I've been getting golds even with 2 weak players since the expansion came out.  What it seemed to be was we had bad RNG.  We had me and two other really strong players.  We were killing things the second they spawned.  The entire run we were all just standing there waiting for things to spawn.  Nothing lived more than 3 seconds when it spawned.  We only managed a 958.  We had killed everything offered to us.  It was 100% impossible to get gold.  We got unlucky with mobs not spawning, no big mobs to attack buildings, and no scared people.  Nothing, so we did not get 1000.

I sure as hell hope they major league increased the spawn rate of the mobs in these things and stuff like that does not happen.  If RNG can keep us from gold, how the hell could we ever make platinum.  Someone suggested to me, next time don't kill them so fast.  Makes sense, but isn't that the idea?  To kill them fast so you get more to kill?  I hope blizzard fixed problems like this otherwise platinum will be more about RNG and not about skill.  It will be "if" you get enough mobs to kill for it and sorry, but that is bad design.


For me the main "content" of this patch was the fact I would be able to upgrade two pieces of gear when it came out.  As I was not able to do so because of the horrible design of the profession vendors as far as I see it 6.1 was a complete failure.  If you can not upgrade your gear when the upgrades come out, seems like a failure to me.  My opinion only, I will get them in time and I don't really need them now with the content I am pushing, but it should not have been left up to RNG if I can upgrade or not.  I am so very not happy about that.  I am never very happy with anything that is about RNG, more so new stuff like this that many people like myself were looking forward too as the only thing that excited us with 6.1.


  1. While I could go ahead and explain why the materials-traders are perfectly designed, Need More Rage has already done this for me.

    1. That is a good post, funny, but there is an actual reason for why they did it this way. Problem is I just do not care about their reason. I want to upgrade my weapon so I can kill stuff faster. ;)

      The reason is that if they released them all at the same exact time the market would get flooded with the new stuff. People would flood the market with things being we all have 50K herbs and ore saved up to trade in for primals which in turn can become anything from savage blood to crafting materials.

      The are doing one at a time to space it out and not crash the market all at once and let everyone get everything instantly.

      The are trying to protect, even if minimally, the market and the life of the "content".

      By doing it this way people need to log in more to get the one they want. They will need to interact more instead of doing it all in one day. They will need to be actively searching.

      Also by doing it this way they are not removing all the cloth, leather, ore and herbs from the market at once, but instead doing cloth one day, leather the next, etc, to try and ease it in.

      I don't know if I explained it right, he might have explained it better, how can anyone debate that well worded argument, but that is why they are doing it this way.

      I just personally do not care about their reasons. I've got some dragons to kill and a bigger gun would be better.

    2. Over time I'm becoming more and more persuaded that I don't enjoy gated content. Maybe it's unreasonable for me to expect them to create an abundance of content for $15 a month to where they don't have to throttle me.

      But I still expect to be able to do anything and wonder whether my $15 (and time, precious time) could be better spent elsewhere.

      Maybe I've just been playing the game too long.

      But, I am not much of a completionist, so there is still plenty of old stuff for me to do if I wanted to. Probably a slow motion unsubcriber here. Started mid/late WOTLK and been considering unsubscribing since since the end of MOP but never done it.


    3. We are in the same boat really. But we are not alone. Many people feel the issues the game has now and blizzard seems to be doing nothing to handle it.

      The problem, as I see it, is that blizzard misread the rise to 10M subscribers wrong. They thought that it meant everything they did was good. No outdoor content, raid or die design, no flying, etc, and they are rolling with it because "people love it, look at how many came back". They seemed to forget that people were going to come back for a new expansion anyway. The read their data wrong. It was not to support their game design these people came back, they came back to see the first thing new in 14 months.

      Sadly for me outside of current mythic raid stuff and some rare older stuff I do not want to do the only achievement stuff I still needs comes from PvP and if it ever came down to PvP being the only thing for me to do I am sad to say I would have to quit.

      They are really taking a hit from all ends by not adding anything for anyone. PvEers are mad, PvPers are mad, hardcores are mad, casuals are mad, even flexible people like me that dabble in everything are mad. They are not making any friend with this expansion thus far.

  2. Well, my experience with Kromog was probably as bad, if not worse. We decided to skip the big add that pats up above and make our way downstairs. That went fine until the wipage started on Kromog. Then as people quit and new folks joined, you can guess what happened next.

    Someone who was not aware of the very large patrolling mob aggroed him. This led to a cascade of dead as people respawned and did not let him reset. The add moved up to the spawn point. Five minutes....10 minutes.... then some folks got down the elevator as he killed others who kept joining or respawning. Eventually he came down the elevator. Did not realize he was that smart :)

    Well as he worked on the few down there, everyone else respawned and joined the group down in Garvok's room to fight the pat. Time to kill this stupid add!!

    Oops....someone must have targeted Garvok. Now we had both of them killing the raid. Respawns still trickling in. No reset of add. Finally approximately 25 minutes after the beginning of this fiasco we were able to clear the add and continue our wipage on Garvok. I needed 330+ gold in repairs at the end. Ouch.

    You have to love LFR!!!!

    1. I hate when people skip adds like that. If something is really off to the side, sure, but if it is something that a new person might walk into you have to kill it. It is just lazy people not willing to waste 2 minutes now to save 10 minutes later. Makes no sense to me.

      lol I love that he came down the elevator. I do not mean to laugh at the horror you experienced, I know that type of pain but you have to admit, that makes for one hell of a funny story to share.

      Yours was MUCH worse than mine, no doubt about that. The tank in mine pulled that add when we came in. Someone in the raid yelled saying he was wasting time. In the end after all the wipes, it proved to be the smartest thing to do.

      Yes, you really do have to love the LFR.

  3. My disappointment for the day that you didn't mention was that the trading post NPC's still path instead of staying stationary. I'd read a blue that they were making them stay still. I cannot stress how much I hate my transmog window, banking window, or void storage window close because my teller decides to wander off while I'm trying to get something done. Brilliant!

    This needs to change.

    1. Honestly I did not even notice. Or maybe I have just become used to trying to track down missing people because they all seem to love to hide from me like I am some evil ruler with an iron hand. Trust me, I am nice to them.

  4. Of the two alts that I ran last night, my warlock (ie tailor) got Harrison Jones with his archaeology mission and my druid got the fur trader. The Harrison Jones mission was interesting searching for parts to a sword in Nagrand, but useless visit with the fur trader. (wait, can I do something with that sword now?) My one complaint about the Harrison quest, was that I didn't turn the sword back into him, but the troll outside my inn (Shadow Hunter Kor'ok?).

    I am personally 'frustrated' that my best pet-battle team is level 7-8 and I need to go back to Vanilla zones to level them up. Why oh why, can't it be like Draenor professions and my garrison building have a level appropriate pet battle arena. A Pet Battle 'trainer' who would help me level them up! "Oh you have done little grasshopper. Let me summon my more powerful allies and you can try again." Maybe something as simple as pet battle quests that ... oh never mind..

    My biggest disappointment came when I logged into my level 90 priest and found that I had 15,000g in my bags where previously only had 2k. Wow, I must have had something exciting happen on the auction house! Sadly, when I logged out then back in to get addons running, all that gold disappeared and I was back to my known amount. Even more disappointing, I couldn't find any of the cloth heirlooms that I thought I had from when I leveled her back in Cata. Maybe I dumped them to gain bag space back an or two expansion ago? All I could locate was my trinkets and all my leather gear from my druid and hunter. Bringing me to a total of 17 heirloom pieces. Running to Undercity, I started buying up the pieces she'd need, but only after spending 3000 gold, I realized that they were iLevel 85 and good for 1-60, not good 1-85. This led to the sad truth that to purchase new gear for my priest, to level from 90-100 it would cost me probably 10,000 gold. Only bright moment was finding a heirloom necklace also for sale.

    1. Each one of your level 3 garrisons should allow you to go to get a level 25 pet stone from the pet trainer. I can give you a team that will make it easy for you to level up some others.

      So if you have a few 100s, that is a few 25s, and with that if you are willing to put in some time and work you can have a full team of 25s in no time.

      That is the catch up mechanic they just added to the game for it. Its version of the profession catch up.

      The heirloom prices are out of line. I agree. They need to go back to letting us grind justice to upgrade them. So much more user friendly.

      Have you tried altaholic, the addon. It is great for finding the lost things you might have somewhere. It will tell you what bag they are in even.

    2. thanks! hadn't noticed that before. Can I do it without a single level 25 pet? I have two level 100s which would at least get me 2/3rds the way there. I have a third toon that I plan to level someday..

      I used to use an all-in-one bag app, but quit when they quit updating it regularly. With the bag sort function, I've almost gotten used to using the standard bags again. Just checked curse and like what altoholic provides.. I'll download it when I logon tonight, but since I've gone through all my toons, I think the cloth heirlooms are gone.. Wait, can I put them in void storage?

    3. You would need at least one, darkmoon cub or any cat really that has the devour ability as its last ability will work.

      There is a person at the pet building that will offer you a stone that will instantly turn one of your pets to level 25.

      Use it on the cub and then start picking things you want to level.

      The leveling pet will be the first pet in the line up, the cub will be the second. Go to the area around halfhill in valley of the four winds. Most of those battles are all critters, which the cub is strong against. Also most of those battles will see the mob either heal or shield themselves first meaning your level 1 pet can get a hit in and then get out asap.

      If the leveling pet dies leave battle, heal and restart. If not, after it does its one ability bring the cub in. It usually can kill all 3 of the other pets. Always make sure that the last hit the cub does is devour and it will also heal itself. So there you have it. Just keep leveling pets that way.

      Not sure if you can put them in void storage. If you logged into all your characters and opened all your bags on all of them and could not find them even after doing a search for them, they are probably gone. :(

  5. Yes, I noticed the change with 370/20 for crafting too and I love it. I think there's a lot of people who appreaciate it.

    1. Sometimes it is the little stuff like that which I end up liking the most. I think that is one of the best changes and a very welcome surprise.

  6. Looking at it, I don't really get it why Blizz chose this style. Basically, everything is random in hopes of logging in every day to see if there's anything you need / require. I would understand this from a freemium game, it would totally make sense. But from a sub game, it usually means I can log in whenever I want without missing out on stuff. The daily cooldowns were bad enough, but they were sort of like dailies which if you missed, you missed. But if I don't do a day I might not see something for two weeks is pretty crap.

    On a random note, belf male new faces suck balls. The nose was too short so the distance between lip and nose was too big and their 'fix' was moving the mouth closer to the nose. Which left a chin longer than the nose, it's hideous. I'm not even going to get into it how amateur-like all the work seems, with clipping, stretching, crappy hair meshes that look like a newbie learning to mesh on Sims games. I can't believe I wanted new models for my belf so much.

    1. In regards to hair this is what I meant (found a link):

      I had ONE female belf (my hunter). This was her hair, which looked to me elegant and now it's so effed up I can't even begin to describe how outraged I am at the low low quality work they did.

    2. I don't think I need to voice my displeasure with random. I've said a million and one times how much I hate it so I agree with you completely. I am not sure why they are going this way. And like you said, it is even worse now because if you miss a day you might not be able to get what you need for a week or two.

      A friend of mine could not get on yesterday. He plays every day of the week otherwise. He is a leather worker, the leather trader was yesterday. He is screwed now until he randomly respawns. Poor guy. This is not a way to design a game. Not at all.

      I was never very fond of the remodels. Heck, I think they were a waste of time and resources. I don't mind they did them, just can't believe they made such a huge deal of it like it was a feature or something.

      How do you think I feel about my night elf. Ever since they release it on beta and I complained about the run I had to deal with that. Now they fixed the run but left his arms are still swinging out to the side. So there is no other way to describe it but now they run like girly men.

      They tried, I will give them that, but like most things they seem to do, they did a half assed job with it.

  7. A few thoughts on your thoughts

    Profession traders? What profession traders? honestly it's the first time I heard about them... Whatever. Mats are cheap.

    BRF missions: I got mine immediately after levelling 3 followers to 670. Maybe I should have been more patient? Not that it mattered much. But I thought we needed 3. I got the selfie camera and was very much disappointed that it takes up yet another bag slot.

    Pet battles: Deffo got easier for me. Very predictable fights went different post 6.1, my pets were dying 1-2 rounds later than previousely. Sure, if your strat relied on your pet dying on a certain point, then you might want to alter your strat. Also, very disappointed with the menagerie XP nerfs.

    Jukebox: a nice little addition that, like the new pets, motivate to re-visit old places. I don't care at all about visiting the opposite faction's city, esp. since flying is still enabled there. It's fun to try to sneak there. Although I'm not quite sure what exactly we need to do to get the new music (haven't looked yet). But visiting the enemy city sounds fun.

    1. In your garrison town hall as soon as you step in there will be someone there. It will either be a raid quest giver, a relic hunter quest giver, a dungeon quest giver, a world quest giver or a profession trader.

      The profession trader will offer something like a chance to give 50 fur for 25 primal spirits. Then you can buy more primal spirits for 5 of that resource each. A great way to turn those extra things you mentioned into something useful.

      Not to mention, you need to buy the new profession patterns from those profession traders. But you can use someone elses. So say you have a blacksmith and do not have the trader, you can go to someone elses garrison and buy the patterns from there.

      I hate that the camera takes up a space too. Why is it not a toy is beyond me.

      The xp nerfs to the menagerie were the worst. Loved that I could level pets at home, so to speak.

      It is just a quest for the jukebox. Getting the things is running around.

    2. Oh. I think i've accepted a daily from one of the quest givers, then. It sent me to Talador, on a 3 man quest. Of course I soloed it, as BM. BM is really fun nowdays, but I haven't quite managed to reach SV numbers yet (out of practice). But I reached 350+k dps on thogar trash so there's that(insane cackling included).

      The menagerie nerf is a huge hit for the pet battling community, especially those who only do pet related stuff when there's little else to do. For me personally, tho, it was probably exactly the right thing. Because I read about it early enough, I managed to squeeze in 2 days of JSA levelling insanity and got all of my collection to level 20+. Without the 6.1 pressure, I bet I wouldn't have done that, ever.

      Jukebox: ah, i see. Well, I quite enjoy running around quests, they're good for moments like lengthy TS discussions (i'm raid leader and we're on a recruiting spree because -surprise- many people enjoy 20m and stop playing).

    3. Yeap, that is one of the five you can end up with.

      We need to recruit too. Sadly I can't seem to find enough decent people and when I do they see we are not far along in progression and leave for someone more progressed. It is a never ending cycle. Went from some realm firsts through thirds last expansion to not even being able to complete normal (flex) in a reasonable time frame. :(

      Hope you have better luck with recruitment than I did.

  8. How many warrior tailors are there out there?

    LOL, how about my one warrior? She is one and my Hunter is both a tailor and a blacksmith.


    1. Tailor is just a weird profession for a non cloth wearer.