Friday, September 6, 2013

A World Without Valor

Someone recently made a comment about something that has been crossing my mind since the removal of valor gear come 5.4,  What he basically said was that he was capped on valor and with no new valor gear and enough stocked up to upgrade 6 pieces of gear that grinding valor is not really that important any more.

I've been thinking about that a great deal lately myself.  I have over 22,000 valor scattered over my characters.  Some could buy some 522 valor gear but why bother on alts I have no intention of using immediately.  They have a high enough item level to get into the LFR when it comes and I am sure I can squeeze them into one of the many flex raids I expect to see popping up.

I would rather get 528 LFR gear or 540 flex gear and upgrade it than waste valor on outdated 522 gear now.  The importance of valor has be downgraded, even more so for alts.  While valor for alts was always fantastic for the valor gear, without the valor gear, the need for valor on them all but disappears.  Unless of course I choose to do LFR or flex with them.

I am starting to think I like this idea.  It is like blizzard has told me that I was allowed to step out of the skinner box.  For those that do not know what a skinner box is, it is based on some work done by BF Skinner where he put an animal in a cage and rewarded it for pressing a lever.  Effectively valor and valor gear works as a skinner box for warcraft.  We press the lever (collect valor) and are rewarded with pellets (gear).  It is a great motivating ability.

I've always been a big fan of this design.  I know I am caught in the skinner box while doing it but I support the effort equals reward dynamic of earn valor and buy gear.  I have been, for years, collecting as much valor or badges, as I was able to and getting all the gear as soon as I could.  Now I don't even have that option.

The skinner box has been broken, the door left open, the thousands, perhaps tens or hundreds of thousands, of us that have been trapped in that box knowingly pressing that lever for the rewards for years are now free to do something else, to leave the skinner box.

At first I felt a little like a drug addict without an outlet to buy drugs.  As if I am a valor fiend, I need my lever to press to get my pellets and while there are still levers all around (valor) there are no pellets (gear) to be had.  Like anyone with an addiction I fight for what I fiend for.  I want my valor gear.  I will still be pressing the lever every time I do a quest, kill a rare, do a dungeon, do a scenario, do a raid, do basically everything.  I will be pressing levers over and over and I want my pellets.  Upgrading gear does not feel like a pellet.  Buying a new piece of gear does.

But as time passes and I am coming to acceptance with the fact that everything in the game will be completely luck based now and there is absolutely no way to compensate for bad luck any longer.  I think I am starting to embrace the idea.  I know that sounds strange coming from me as I love the earn your gear method over the luck into your gear method, but there is something freeing about not needing to collect valor for gear any more and I am starting to like that.  For all the wrong reasons that is, at least as I am sure blizzard would see it that way.

Without my skinner box, the one I loved, pressing the lever for my valor so I could get my pellet gear, there is no longer a reason for me to log in every day.  There is no longer a reason to cap valor being there is nothing to spend valor on.  Sure, there are upgrades, but when you never win gear what does upgrading nothing really mean?  Unless you get insanely lucky with drops, you will never eat up all the incidental valor you came across just doing your other things, like raiding.

When I first heard of the no new valor gear beginning in 5.4 I said this line, "It is like blizzard is speaking directly at me telling me, we do not want you playing this game any more, now leave."

Funny thing is that even if I am changing my opinion on no valor gear as time is passing, that line still makes perfect sense.  It is blizzard setting me free.  They opened the door on the skinner box.  "It is like blizzard is speaking directly at me telling me, we do not want you playing this game any more, now leave."

The first way was the game telling me they did not want me playing any more because it was taking away my addiction to collecting valor (pressing the lever) to buy valor gear (get my pellet).  The second way was the game telling me they did not want me to play any more so they are opening the door on the skinner box and basically letting me be free to leave, or quit even, as the thing that was keeping me addicted is gone.

I am not so sure this is the intended effect blizzard was hoping for, but it might work wonders for my addiction.  Just think about it, everything I have done in game all this expansion as been about valor.  Now, in a world without valor, there is nothing left for me to do.  I can finally just sit back and relax because the thing that was keeping me addicted to the game is gone, maybe forever. 

I'll just log on to raid now for gear being that is the only option for gear.  Maybe try some PvP and do some arenas.  Play around a little more doing solo stuff.  I am free to do whatever I want because my addiction to collecting valor is broken because blizzard left the door open on the skinner box.  But there is one other thing that should be something they should worry about.  Without the skinner box making me feel like I need to log on every day to press the lever, I am also open to quitting now.

The entire expansion has been about valor.  Everything I did was about valor.  On my main I won't even consider anything as I would have done everything anyway, gear or not.  But on my alts, I did dailies to get reputation so I could buy valor gear.  I did dailies, dungeons, scenarios, LFR, to get valor to get gear.  I did LFR to get reputation to get gear.  Everything I did on alts was to get valor which in turn would get me gear.  I would always rush online on tuesday to max out one character first so it would make valor collection on the others more productive.  Everything I have done this expansion has been all about valor gear.

Take away that valor gear, and there is nothing left for me to do.  I won't worry about my alts any longer.  Why bother, I can not keep them raid ready geared through valor any more.  I will just log on to raid on my main, and if I get lucky I might get a piece.  I will use 500 valor from my already capped stash to upgrade it and with my luck I will recover that 500 valor in the time it takes to win another piece.

Effectively valor does not matter any more at all.  Unless you get extremely lucky with more than 2 upgrades a week, you will never use all your stash, even more so if you are like me and have the one new item every month luck, at most.  In a month of doing nothing but raiding I will surely get valor capped again without even trying.   And that is what it comes down to, why try cap valor when it won't be needed.

The skinner box has been broken.  Blizzard broke it themselves.  They let us rats out of the cage and we are no longer connected to the game the way we once were.  I should actually be sending them a thank you card right after I finish this post.

And that is how I am starting to feel, different.  I am starting to feel free.  I am starting to feel as if I log into the game it will be because I want to and not because I feel there is something I need to do, like collect valor.  There will be no pressing need or desire to get on tuesday as early as I can so I can cap one character to make the most out of the others because the others will not be getting much new gear as I rarely play them, so that means they will not have things to upgrade, which means they really do not need valor.  At least not much at all.

But then I remember the upgrade vendor.  And the alts.  And start to think, while the cage is much much bigger now, there is still a cage there of sorts, if I allow it to be so like I allowed valor gear to be my cage before it.  But I am now thinking the exact opposite of what I have always said.  I always said I would rather earn my gear than luck into it.  But sensing this freedom I have right now I am starting to think, I might be willing to accept a world without valor.  So I will no longer be a geared player thanks to luck being the only deciding factor on whether you have gear or not.  It will just be another push out the door that they opened when they let me out of the skinner box.

Now they need to remove the upgrade vendor and make it so there is no use for valor what so ever.   Then, and only then, will I be totally and completely free of the skinner box.  But if I can put my compulsion to play alts out of the way, I am effectively free of the skinner box already.  As I said, I will never win enough gear to keep up with the valor I get just from raiding.  I am free, completely free, for the first time ever in the game.

The question is, what do I do in this world without valor when I am no longer confined to the skinner box.  Perhaps I should listen to what blizzard is telling me by them opening the door on the skinner box.  "we do not want you playing this game any more, now leave."

I think I might like this world without valor.  It will allow me to play less, free less need that I have to be on, to experience new things I never had time for because I "have to cap valor".  I can't wait to delve into arena some this patch.  To spend a little more time outside of the game and less in it.  Not having to feel like I need to cap out on tuesday.  To enjoy a whole new world of freedom in game play to do whatever I wish to do and that now includes not even logging in sometimes.

But it has me thinking of one good, or bad, side effect depending on how you look at it. 

I can now take time off and quit for a couple of weeks or a month.  The only thing that ever kept me playing week after week was valor and the feeling that if I did not cap every week I would fall behind.  I always played that I needed to get everything I could get as soon as I could get it.  I believe any player worth their salt would do just the same.  If the valor chest is an upgrade you should get it as soon as it is possible to get it.  No logging on means falling behind, and it just will not be that way any longer.  Without that valor gear, I can leave at any time I want knowing that when I come back I am not behind six weeks worth of valor because there is no such thing as being behind on valor any more.  When you get a new piece, which is rare, you upgrade it.  Simple as that.

So while I am starting to look forward to this world without valor it makes me wonder, was opening the door on the skinner box really a good idea for a game that is bleeding subscriptions already?  Is it a good idea that they are making it easier to leave and come back and not be behind?

For people returning to the game the time has never been better to do so.  With no valor gear you are not really behind.  This is the first time since wrath I can say I am actively saying, now is a great time to return to the game.  That is saying something coming from me.  I have not been willing to give the game an endorsement in 4 years.

But the other side is for people looking to leave the time has never been better either.  You can leave with no worries of missing out on anything in your time gone.  What happens if those people never come back?  I mean, after all, blizzard has told me and many others "we do not want you playing this game any more, now leave." by removing valor gear.

I might be warming up to this world without valor, but I can't help but think it is going to hurt them in the long run.

Time to rebind all my PvP abilities, it has been so long.  I can't believe I am actually looking forward to attempting arena's seriously again for the first time since wrath.  I was never very good, in fact I sucked quite badly, but maybe I can have a little fun with it.  It is not like I have to grind valor every week any more.  Hey, I don't might not need valor any more but maybe conquest can become my new addiction. ;)


  1. Bad news for you then.

    You can buy 3.5k timeless coins for 500 valor.

    With those coins you can buy the BoA tokens and the item to turn them into 535 tokens :D

    1. Well, guess I will have something to spend a little bit on. So my alts have something to do with theirs. Cool.

      Over all however, the fact still remains that valor will be useless (mostly) once you get at least flex gear.

    2. Just occurred to me, killing stuff gets you timeless coins. I'll get more than ample coins from doing that. I would never waste valor on someone I can get without valor.

      But thanks for the heads up. My alts will take advantage of that for sure.

  2. I think it's unfortunate that it took this change for you to start feeling free to do what you want in the game but I'm just glad it might be happening now. I hope it does provide a lot of relief for you and the others who also felt the obligation to do all of the things, always, ASAP.

    The choice between logging in and playing vs not logging in should be a preference thing, not a necessity thing, outside of scheduled activities of course. The cost of the sub is incidental so it's just a matter of how you choose to spend your time.

    I think your concern about skinners being "freed up to leave the game" having an impact on the numbers isn't particularly likely. You guys are a minority in the first place (most players don't raid, not all raiders cap VP every week) and most players I knew in-game who have quit basically went cold turkey, full activity to zero when they'd had enough vs trying to find a happy medium. Those like myself who have slowly weaned ourselves off the treadmill while still playing the content still seem to be happy in the game and generally stick around. I'd like to personally welcome you to the club. :)

    Full disclosure, until 4-6 weeks ago I was capping VP quickly on my main raiding toon each week but mostly because it wasn't difficult, I was picking up about 700-800VP combined on Tue/Wed from activities that I wanted to do so capping first before playing alts was relatively trivial. Once I no longer had use for VP on that toon, though (maxed out main spec gear-wise, everything +8 upgraded and no upgrades available outside of raid drops), I stopped doing even that, even though I was still sitting on 700-800VP by Wed every week. It cost my alts a bit of VP when I ran them without the bonus but who cares? They're alts. They'll take what they get and LIKE IT.

    1. I've always played like that, any game I play, even in real life at work and in sports. Do the best you can do within your power.

      There is nothing wrong with people that play the game that way. Actually, I think it is a good quality. But getting "addicted" to it like I felt was going too far in my opinion. The feeling that I still needed to cap even when I did not need anything. This will help with that issue, I hope.

      I hope I will be joining the club soon. I do worry that I will get bored quick without the feeling of having a lever to press. It is just in the nature of the beast for me. I always have to be doing something. I've never been comfortable just doing "nothing".

      When I could not cap my main any more I took one alt a week to cap ASAP for the others to benefit. I always felt it would be a waste to not have someone maxed before I did stuff.

    2. No, there's nothing wrong with it in general but there is when people start expecting Blizzard to orient the game around them &/or complain that doing those activities is causing them perceived or actual problems.

      You make a comment below in response to Tiessa that "you have had it beaten into our brains to valor cap ASAP or fall behind." That's where I keep getting tripped up... you acknowledge that it's a personal lever for you but then you seem to blame some external entity for forcing it on you. I think this is one of the reasons I have such a hard time reading and understanding these posts.

      If your raid group requires capping VP and running all possible content for upgrades and paying for crafted gear as soon as it's available then that's fine, that's something you've signed up for and are obligated to do. Beyond that, though, I don't see how there's any external pressure. I also hate seeing the phrase "falling behind" used in this context, it's perpetuating a non-existent standard that nobody can possibly hope to hit. There's always someone with more time/luck/skill who will be further along than you are. That's why I think it's important to actually have a target - ie. whatever your raid group communicates that everyone must do. If you choose to go beyond that then go ahead, just don't start complaining about it due to the pressures being beaten into your head. At that point it's 100% on you.

    3. I know it is personal, I listen to the messages of "do it or fall behind" but I do realize it is still a choice. But that is also why I call it addiction. Sure, I am "making the choice" to do it, but am I really making the choice of doing it because I believe I have to?

      As my raid group is normals only really there is no requirement for that, I however put that requirement on myself. I have always went full on in anything I do. If there is an upgrade to be had it is my job to go get it. Whether it is because the "game made me do it" or "I wanted to do it" is a matter of opinion. Again, it all harkens back to the addiction, pressing the lever for a reward.

      Addiction is not "100% on you". That is why it is called addiction, not choice.

    4. I'd still like to know who you feel has been pressuring you to valor cap. That has nothing to do with a personal addictive quality, you're claiming external pressure. Where's that pressure coming from?

      Okay, let's work from the presumption that addiction is a disease and not an issue of self-control. I'm personally on the fence on this one, I do believe that there are physical manifestations of addiction but I also believe it's up to the addicted to take responsibility for their issue and deal with it if it's an issue. But anyway, let's say it's 100% physical.

      I know plenty of smokers. I know zero smokers who blame the cigarette manufacturers for manufacturing and selling cigarettes.

      Pretty sure there aren't a lot of alcholics who are wishing that Bacardi would finally stop making their sweet, sweet nectar to save them from themselves.

      There are plenty of gambling addicts around and there are an increasing number of "slots" locations going up near where I live, probably not coincidentally. Pretty sure the addicts aren't the ones picketing for "not in my town", they're just looking forward to a shorter drive.

      WoW "addicts" seem to be the only ones who blame Blizzard for their conditions and want Blizzard to change the game to suit them. I guess I just don't get it. Blizzard has zero responsibility for the issue, they're just (worst case, intentionally; best case, indirectly) feeding it. If not them, it'd be someone else feeding it. Blaming Blizzard or wanting them to make the game less "lever-full" is pointless, it'll just keep the addicts from getting their necessary fix and they'll move on to Farmville or whatever the non-WoW-playing OCD/addict population are playing these days. And in the process, they'll change the game in a way that would negatively impact me and the non-addicted majority, I like the levers being there even though I don't feel the need to push them all the time. Self-control and personal responsibility. That shouldn't be any less of a requirement in WoW than in any other aspect of life.

    5. It is just a feeling. If there is something easy you can do that makes you better, like valor capping, and you want to be better, you do it. That is where the pressure comes from.

      If the valor gear was not there, there would not be the pressure to get upgrades of valor gear that is there. If the upgrade vendor was not there, there would not be the pressure to get valor to upgrade your gear.

      Sure, many many players, most actually, do not give a crap. Just look at the LFR for an example of people not caring. But in the end any person that actually likes to play the best they are capable of playing will seek any upgrade they can get. And that is where the pressure comes in.

      Call it self inflicted, as it is. But I would rather be the person that tries to better myself than the person that is looking for others to carry me.

      Maybe addiction was the wrong word. Obsession might be better. The obsession to do the best you can do. And that, is not a fault. I would rather play with a group of players that will do everything they can in their own power to get better, as in getting the valor each week, than a bunch of players that just want to be carried.

      I used to be a drinker, as in a 7 day a week at the bar drinker. One day I woke up and quit. Just stopped drinking. No AA or anything like that. I just did not want to any more, so I quit. So I do know about addiction and I have always said it is within the person to quit if they want to. Everyone has it in their own power to fix whatever it is that is their addiction. But there is one key. They have to "want to" quit. That is what it all comes down to. An alcoholic does not need AA to quit, they just need to want to quit.

      Using that terminology, why would anyone want to not want to be good at a game they enjoy playing?

      So it is blizzard. Not the person. Because there is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to do the best you can do at your hobby. If your hobby is playing wow and grinding valor each weeks makes you better at your hobby, you do it because you want to be the best you can be.

  3. No where have I seen anyone address the potential ramifications for heroic dungeons and scenarios from the removal of a need for valor. Those fresh 90's that need a few pieces of gear to get into the first LFR will find the queue times enormously long, I suspect, in the coming weeks as there will be very little interest for any geared tanks or healers to ever go back and run them now. I used to run a heroic scenario, heroic dungeon and regular scenario per day to cap valor. I am a tank and I know that there is no real reason for me to enter them again in this expansion, after Blizzard has broken the skinner box.

    1. While I have not been on the PTR so I can not really speak for it I will talk about what I believe their intention for catch up is.

      The timeless island is intended to be a place to get 496 gear and 535 gear and being it is all shared loot as long as there are others there doing stuff any new 90 can join in and get some gear.

      Not to mention dungeons will still be in demand even if the gear they drop is sub par, to put it lightly.

      Being new 90s can now get 489 and 496 gear for justice and 522 gear for valor, they will run dungeons as that is the only place to get justice.

      With all that combined you can get to the minimum 496 item level for the new SoO and be caught up. Sort of.

      It will not get your raid ready for sure, but it will get you LFR ready.

      With that said, I do agree with you. I believe the great disservice is being done to the game without a better catch up system outside of the "raid or die" attitude that blizzard has had since 5.2. Even as someone that likes to raid I hate this "raid or die" mentality and believe the game is only hurting itself making that the main, and only, real stepping stone for people to get gear.

    2. @Anon, 5-mans and normal scenarios don't require geared mains, period. If anything, I find they make the runs more annoying (if usually faster). With 5.0 VP gear being available for JP in 5.4 and cheaper 5.2 VP gear I expect you'll see MORE people running 5-mans and scenarios on alts to stock up on JP and VP. I wouldn't be shocked if queue times are down, not up.

      @Grumpy, what's the raid or die mentality you're referring to? You can get gear from raiding or from the Timeless Isle or from running 5-mans or scenarios or heroic scenarios or PvP or crafting or the AH and maybe other ways that aren't coming to mind. In 5.2 we had an Island that had about 3 weeks worth of content before hitting Exalted and fully opening up (and that I'm still spending some time in with my alts even today). In 5.3 we had a Barrens questline and a weekly that we could do either solo or in groups (and that I was still running on the weekend). In 5.4 we're going to have even more open-ended content. Where's the "raid or die" in all of that? I'm not seeing either the "forced to raid" or the negative "die" aspect, whatever that means in this context. And previous content (aside from the 5.3 weekly) isn't going away.

    3. With the exception of a couple of crafted pieces and a few 535 island pieces if you want upgrades you need to raid. That is the raid or die mentality.

      You raid MV to get into HoF, you raid HoF to get into ToES, you raid ToES to get into ToT, you raid ToT to get into SoO. Raid or die mentality.

      Even if you get the other gear I mentioned it is to move into that next tier of raiding to get better gear.

      Ghost crawler said (paraphrasing) they are removing valor gear because they did not want it to be an option as best in slot over the LFR. They want people to use the LFR and that be the best gear they can get.

      That is a raid or die mentally. They do not want people getting gear outside of raiding.

      If you want the gear you need to raid. It is as simple as that.

      Heck, even if you wanted to get valor gear last patch it needed what? Raid reputation. So, yes you got it, raid or die.

      Raids: "All your gear are belong to us."

    4. I'd love to see a link to the non-paraphrased GC comment, that doesn't sound like Blizz expectation at ALL. LFR IS NOT FOR RAIDERS. They've said that DOZENS of times. They'd never make any sort of BiS comment with LFR as the intended source.

      ... what about all of the non-raid activities I pointed to that result in gear?

      5-man heroics give i463 gear and JPs that can (now) be used for i489 and i496 gear, plus give VP that can be used for (now discounted) i522 gear.

      Scenarios give i450/i463 random gear and JPs and VPs.

      Heroic scenarios give i516 random gear and JPs (?) and VPs.

      Timeless Isle will give relatively frequent (sounds like) i496 BoA (!) gear that can be upgraded to i535. Even if you can only upgrade one a week that's probably better than you'll do drop-wise from your normal raid.

      PvP (HP) will get you i496 gear or, I'm assuming, better. I don't PvP.

      The crafted gear, at least in some cases, looks to be quite affordable, although you'll only be able to make one piece a month if you do the daily. That's probably still better than your raid drop rate.

      The average normal raider will be expected to have somewhere around i522 gear to get into SoO normal. With all of the non-raiding ways to get gear, worst case, I'd expect getting to that level to take a month without touching LFR. And, uh, if you aren't going to raid, you don't need to hit the requirement for SoO.

      So, I'd say the options are more accurately "raid or don't raid", not "raid or die".

    5. Here is what I was making reference too.

      "Valor gear originally was added to complement normal difficulty raiding and filling in for bad luck. The Valor gear continued to work like that for normal difficulty raiders, but for players that just do LFR, it replaced the gear that dropped in LFR. Most of the gear that was best in slot for players that only do LFR was just purchased off a vendor, which isn't very exciting."

      He did not want people that LFR to get their gear from valor because it was best in slot and he felt that was not exciting. I disagree, an upgrade is exciting no matter where you get it from.

      5 man raiding 463 gear? Outdated and weak. You would not even be able to pull more than one mob on the island of thunder, don't even think of a barrens or timeless mob in that gear. Do you really consider that a gearing option?

      Out dated gear is not gearing options. Even the 496 stuff, which is awesome for alts and new players, is out of date.

      Unless a person knows how to play they will get destroyed on the timeless island from most of those mobs even in all 496 gear. So you are kidding me right? It is a "catch up" option, not a gearing option. It catches you up so you can get better gear that is actually useful.

      Crafted gear affordable? You either read it wrong or you and I have a completely different definition of affordable.

      Lets say I want to new 553 legs for my hunter. I need 28 hardened magnificent hides. Each one of those takes 2 magnificent hides to make. You can only make one per day, unless you want to use the (what will be for a while) extremely expensive raid drop material to speed it up to make a second one.

      So 56 hides, 28 days, and you call that affordable? First off, let not even take into account you need to wait 28 days to get it, but at over 1K per hide on many servers you are talking 56K just to make it. Now lets add that 28 days to wait for it, and the hope that someone actually got lucky enough to learn the pattern you need.

      So if it took 56K worth of materials, 28 days, and luck to learn the pattern to begin with, what do you think a fair price to sell it at would be? 10% mark up? 20%? Most people usually try to double their money at the start and being it took so long to make asking 112K is not unreasonable. So you call 112K affordable? Heck, lets even say they sold it at cost, do you call 56K reasonable?

      No, the new crafting material is not affordable. At least not in my world. Maybe yours, but hell no, 56K+ is not affordable to 99% of the player base. Heck, I could afford it and it would not even put a dent in the amount of gold I have and I still say that is not affordable.

      All the gearing options you mentioned are meant to get you into raiding so you can get better gear to better handle the mobs at the current level of content. Where do you get the gear that makes handling the current level of content easy? Oh, LFR, flex, normal and heroic raiding.

      Yes, raid or die.

      Yes, you have the option to not raid, but that is like choosing the option to perform sub par. Sorry, but who plays a game wanting to do badly at it? Not me. And that is why it is raid or die.

  4. I completely agree, I've had the same feeling, just not as consciously thought out. A few weeks ago when I learned there was no more valor gear in 5.4, I pretty much stopped playing immediately, although I didn't realize why.

    I no longer needed to cap valor, so no rush to get any. No more dungeons or scenarios, I stopped doing LFR because why should I put up with the headache now to get ToT items, when I can wait a month and get SoO?

    I have nothing but leisure time and doing a few SoO runs until next expansion. I've been doing some pet battles and collecting those. I don't log in everyday anymore, I try because I want to do a few crafting cooldowns, but that takes minutes. Everything has become, "I'll get around to it eventually." Maybe I'll do PvP again, I used to really like it, but haven't had time to do any.

    Even if I need something that takes valor, I've got a long time to get it and it slowly accumulates anyway. Great way to take someone who played hours a day and turn her into a super casual overnight :)

    1. I think this is a side effect of no valor gear that they did not think about. So many players like myself and you have had it beaten into our brains to valor cap ASAP or fall behind. Devaluing valor and the need for it will, or could, greatly decrease the amount we play.

      I don't think they really thought this one out. Not at all.

      Watch for valor gear to be added in 5.5. I would be willing to bet on it.

  5. It seems that Blizz are trying to force as many people as possible to raid, thus justifying the continuous expenditure on raid development.

    As it is though, I stopped playing a while back. I saw the "Raid or stfu" attitude and went off to spend my spare time in more fruitful endeavors.

    Everybody I know has quit the game now, including friends I made in vanilla who were big fans of wow.

    There is just nothing worth doing, nothing rewarding at all except for the basement cavalry and their elitism and arrogance has poisoned the rest of the community.

    I levelled up only one toon to 90 in MoP, became so heartily sick of the attitude problem of the basement crusaders that I left.

    For everyone except the hardcore players, the game ends at 90, and even getting there is now a struggle with the quest chains being so linear and boring. I only levelled alts to 60, then deleted them to start again as I began to despise the rest of the game.

    Have fun though, the blog is great. Better than the game atm.

    1. "There is just nothing worth doing, nothing rewarding at all except for the basement cavalry and their elitism and arrogance has poisoned the rest of the community."

      What did they do in vanilla?

      Because there were three main options in vanilla.

      1, raid.

      2, PvP a hell of a lot for that gear when it came out (which wasn't for a while)

      3, do the dungeons for blue item sets (and this offered far worse gear than raids)

    2. In vanilla the game was new. Alts and levelling were a much more intriguing process. It's old, and dying.

      1) Raid
      With a small group of players in a social guild that played in spare time for lols???? You must be joking.

      2) PVP
      That was the only thing that kept me going and got me to Legionaire rank on my undead mage. AV was great in the old days. I hated the other BGs because of ego-wank faceroll premades that steamrolled the other BGs.

      3) Dungeons
      A social guild? few 60s? Yeah... Also I could get better gear playing in AV.

      Alts and the newness of wow kept most of us going, and AV kept me playing my main.

      TBC: AV, new areas to level in. I hated heroic rep grinds and never raided in TBC.

      Wrath: We had great fun, heroic 5-mans, raids, a great laugh.

      Cata: Nearly everyone quit early on as heroic 5-mans sucked. Levelled only 3 to 85 then quit.

      MoP: Levelled one to 90, over a long time, then quit after seeing the "Raid or stfu" mode of the game, with the raids designed for the special snowflakes and LFR a joke contaminated with self-righteous 'special snowflakes' hurling abuse at people.

      What we have now is "Call of Duty: Ego Wank", not a fun game anymore.

    3. Er...

      So your argument is that Vanilla and BC were better because you enjoyed leveling during then more? And that's what made WoW cool?

      "What we have now is "Call of Duty: Ego Wank", not a fun game anymore."

      Except according to you it was never fun except during leveling, apparently.

    4. Not quite. Newness was key (I'd only played EVE Online before tbh) and the novelty of it was very attractive.

      Burnout may be a factor here perhaps, I have been playing since 2005.

      I miss the taste of newness to an extent, the fresh air of a whole new concept as I hadn't played much mmo before and I'm a big fan of fantasy novels.

      Raids were something I heard of but never got near. AV was simply awesome and kept me hooked. You must remember some of the great battles that used to last all day.

      TBC... AV still, new alts, 'welfare epics' were amusing in pvp and gave a sense of progress in some way. I hated arena as I admit freely I'm not a 'leet' pvper at all. I enjoy Mage and Holy Pally in pvp.

      Wrath... raids here as it was not something I'd done before, also Wintergrasp was a great laugh.

      Cata... sucked, heroics were too hard at first, everyone in the guild quit and I got bored. The new zones were too dull, hard to explain why as i'm not sure why. Quit until MoP.

      MoP... This was dull. One toon to 90 then I bailed. the attitudes in instances really suck, people demanding minmaxed toons, great gear etc, the abuse hurled around the place (mainly from the better geared players) just disgusted me.

      Levelling another toon in MoP made me think "no.. please no..." as I just hated the MoP and Cata zones. Really hated them.

      So I bailed again, though I like to keep track of what's happening in case things look interesting again.

      Wow needs something new maybe? Not something ferreted away for a few leet kiddies but something for all which can help progress and provide amusement. No idea what this 'new' could be though.

    5. P.S. Sorry about the Call of Duty comment btw, I'd been drinking and it may have not been appropriate or relevant (41st birthday party)

      Thanks though, you made me think.

      Burnout. I think I'll leave wow for an extended break. Time to turn to something other than MMO for a bit.


    6. "Not quite. Newness was key (I'd only played EVE Online before tbh) and the novelty of it was very attractive.

      Burnout may be a factor here perhaps, I have been playing since 2005."

      I'm sure burnout and novelty is/was a massive factor. I just think it's unfair to blame WoW for the fact you've been playing it so long!

      The game has generally improved over the years - and even the negatives *usually* brought more positives overall. But of course it doesn't still have that fresh sense of wonder that got us all hooked whenever we originally started.

      "You must remember some of the great battles that used to last all day."

      Oh yes - I remember needing to summon the big dude for your faction to break a stalemate. And organizing a ram/wolf calvary charge.

      I also sort of wonder how much of this is due to MoP being the first truly "new" lore beyond stuff introduced in WC3 or before.

      "One toon to 90 then I bailed. the attitudes in instances really suck, people demanding minmaxed toons, great gear etc, the abuse hurled around the place (mainly from the better geared players) just disgusted me."

      I'm surprised by this - I didn't have that problem. People were complaining about having 440 ilvl or whatever in the "heroic" dungeons of MoP?

      Or do you mean things like LFR? LFR is a toxic cesspool.

      It actually sounds like Flex raiding is something that would suit you. I'd look at that if you haven't - actually social unlike LFR without the performance demands of normal/heroic.

    7. The LFR attitude is unspeakable. It's a great idea but it's become like a sandpit with kiddies hurling lumps of dogsh*t at each other.

      LFD isn't so bad though there's still the same attitude there to a much lesser extent.

      The more people required, the more you meet 'special snowflakes' who think their sh*t don't stink.

      Time to dig through google though and find something I may have missed. There's no way I've tackled everything in the game yet.

    8. @ Anon

      Happy belated birthday.

      You have to remember newness will always make something better. Nothing can compare to that sense of wonder we first had when experiencing something.

      When it comes to loot the greatest thing I ever got, memory wise, is still that first green world drop. Yes, green, because it was all new.

      I personally liked mists leveling. I dreaded cata leveling. I do agree with you however about cata, it was the start of the end. To go from wrath to cata was like a kick in the balls for 95% of the player base.

    9. Thanks.

      Cata was too much of a change from Wrath. My guildies and I liked Wrath as there was so much to do and it wasn't a case of banging your head against the wall in nanosecond accurate leet-dances v's a long chain of bosses.

      Cata heroics were too hard, took too long and seemed to have been designed not for 'leet kiddies' as such, more for the anally retentive. This seems to have become standard in-game for raids now.

      Still, it's the end of the 3rd quarter soon and it'll be interesting to see the customer numbers. That could raise a few eyebrows I think.

    10. Cata heroics with all guild groups were fine. We moved a little slower but being we spoke we never had any problems. Also remember CC pulled at the start, and that was brutal for randoms.

      But doing the cata heroics in randoms where a nightmare for nightmares. I still remember listening to two guild mates on vent talking when they were in deadmines that first week. It took them 6 hours to clear it. I am not kidding, 6 hours for a heroic dungeon.

      So yes, they were way to hard. Even after the nerfs and changes to CC they were still too hard for a fresh group in all 329 greens.

      I remember the first time I did a challenge mode in mists I said "these are easier than cataclysm heroics". Seriously, they are, they are way easier that the release tuned cataclysm heroics in 329 gear.

      Our guilds problem in cata was the change to healing. We lost all out healers and both main tanks. One of the main tanks was because he wife was one of the healers that quit and the other main tank because if he was not playing with him, he did not want to play. So cata killed our raid team at the get go.

  6. "And that is how I am starting to feel, different. I am starting to feel free. I am starting to feel as if I log into the game it will be because I want to and not because I feel there is something I need to do, like collect valor."




    "Without that valor gear, I can leave at any time I want knowing that when I come back I am not behind six weeks worth of valor because there is no such thing as being behind on valor any more. When you get a new piece, which is rare, you upgrade it. Simple as that."

    Not quite.

    Let's say you wanted to raid with my guild's alt run or something and we knew you were good despite being a fresh 90 or something. We could take you to a normal ToT clear in 5.4 and just feed you a ton of gear. Combine that with timeless isle and flex gear and you wouldn't have enough valor to upgrade it all immediately. This isn't even factoring in stuff like the t14 LFRs or ToT LFRs with increased drop rates or even SoO LFR.

    But you COULD steadily improve the gear you obtained instead of effectively skipping over most of the gearing process. It would give you a steady power increase (guaranteed 1 ilvl a week as long as you have stuff to upgrade) - but the average raider won't have to valor cap each and every week.

    1. We try to do that with people catching up too but it is a lot harder for us. We are not quite as good as you guys are so we can not really carry to many.

      Not to mention I tried to do that with a bunch of new people with low gear and they all complain, they wanted to do ToT not ToES. Perhaps it is just the type of player nowadays.

      They just do not grasp the concept that they need to work their way "up to normals". They feel they should be able to do it as long as they have an approriate gear level because that is what LFR teaches them, at this gear level you can do this.

      BTW: Thought you might enjoy this and just to show you how screwed up my luck is. Won a thunder forged bow and a heroic trinket this week. Just in time to replace it. Just my luck.

  7. Reading this made me think of a spoiled princess complainig that daddy won't buy her new shoes again. 'why are you doing this to me? You hate me, don't you? You want me dead, don't you?' then writing on some blog ten times how her dad clearly told her he wants her dead. Blizz did't tell you anything, you're being really melodramatic.
    I for one always look forward to these moments when i don't need to do anythin: like no need for lfr, no need for vp, no need for coins. It always feels good. Like even back in wrath it felt great to noot need frosties anymore. Enjoy the game.

    1. I look forward to it as well. That is one of the reasons I did not like the upgrade vendor, because then I would never be "done".

      I loved the freedom of being done with valor gear. Now I am done with it from the start because there is no valor gear.

      Now for them to just get rid of the upgrade vendor and we will be truly free of the valor addiction.

      The best thing is being able to say "I'm done". I only had about 5 or 6 weeks of that on my main but that was only because of lack of drops.