Wednesday, May 22, 2013

Heroic Scenarios - Valor Capping ASAP

The new heroic scenarios came out and I'd be lying if I said they were not fun.  Like anything else however, time will show if they stand the test of time.  It was fun doing them all once and a couple a second time.  Will doing them over and over still be fun?  It was fun doing them with 2 capable people.  Will it still be fun doing them with someone a little lesser on the skill scale or on my alts that I am not as good or geared on?

All questions that can not be answered now.  Everything looks different when you have the passage of time added to it so I can only make any judgements I have now based on first impression and that first impression was good.

First I would like to give a little review of the scenarios from my runs yesterday before I get into the meat of the post.   So here goes.

If I had one gripe about them it would be as simple as "no loot, really?".  Admittedly I don't think I would stop and loot while going for a timed event.  There was only one event that I was capable of finishing with a decent amount of time left, a bit over 2 minutes to be exact.  So there would have been more than a enough time to bend over and pick up a few coins and some cloth but there was also the ones I missed, didn't even come close to and the one that I made but only barely made exactly on time.

Oddly enough when I say exactly on time I mean exactly on time.  The countdown was going, 5, 4, 3, 2, crap oh crap of crap so close, 1, kill it, 0.  Bonus objective achieved.  Literally as it hit 0 the mob went down.  That was freaking great.

I doubt that will happen often, it will usually be one of the two other styles I mentioned, make it by a long shot or miss it by a long shot.  The one we made by a long shot was actually simple and straight forward.  Kill stuff.  Okay, I am a hunter, easy as pie.  The one we missed by a long shot we needed to find and rescue people.  As if the finding and making it there was not enough, I feel off a mountain.  Oops.

Let me be the first to tell you, this wastes a shit load of time.  But if you ever do it I suggest falling off the mountain I did because even if it helped us miss the timer it was well worth the fall.  I landed near a bear that apparently had the same bad luck I did, but he landed head first.  So he was buried in the snow with just his feet sticking out kicking like crazy.  I found it quite humorous.  And at least I know I can not take the short cut I was trying to take.  Damn trees make it impossible to see sometimes.

So while that did put a crimp in our timed run it was when the other two people with me died that really sealed our fate.  Luckily I am a hunter, a hunter that loves to solo stuff, so instead of starting all over again I worked the two quest type elite mobs and the 8 or so trolls all by myself.  It was fun killing them all alone and gave me a chance to practice all those little things that really make hunters the best class in the game but it was also the nail in the timer coffin. 

Perhaps if I died and we could have come back, all three of us, we might have had a prayer.  But it took me so long to solo the pack of mobs that we ran out of time.  I would say we were well short.  All my fault too.  Falling for one and then soloing those mobs instead of dying.  It is one of those cases where dying would have been the better option.

Who would have ever thought that death instead of victory would have been the right thing to do.  And that is one of the little things that make the heroic scenarios fun.

They are much harder than any non raid content available outside of challenge modes and you do not need to find the perfect group to beat them like you would the challenge modes which makes them much more accessible.  I like that.  I have still not had the chance to run any challenge modes, never the less finish them.  I am quite upset about that personally.  That alone means that these scenarios have taken a place in my heart already as something that offers a small challenge that can be done easier thanks to the smaller group requirements.

With that said, I have actually not really seen the challenge of them yet. The two people with me were well over 500 item level as am I.  We are all closer to 520 and with that these were quite easy.  Only one boss fight caused us to wipe and we wiped three times on it.

Now for the interesting thing.  Talking to some guild mates that did them, they said they did not wipe at all on it.  They also said that what we had a problem with they never noticed.  So perhaps these fights are designed to work differently depending on the group that is there?  I can't wait to mix it up and find out.  They had 1 melee which was a tank and 2 ranged in the group.  My group had three ranged.  While we both did the same fight, it was different.  Perhaps someone being in melee range changed the fight.  If this is the case I have give blizzard a round of applause.  Congratulations on making flexible content that is designed for the people doing it so that every group gets their own unique challenge.  I really can not wait to try that one again in a different group with a different make up.

Over all, time will show if these are really as fun as the first day made them feel.  Playing them on my characters that are lesser geared will show how it feels to others that do not over gear it.  Playing them on characters I am not as good on as my hunter will also give me more to think about.  So good or bad I can not say for sure just yet.


And this is the big but.  But one thing that stands out bigger than anything else for me is the valor gained from them, even after doing the first one.  They are quicker than heroic dungeons and the looking for raid, they are instant queue, and they offer more reward for your effort.  If you can meet the bonus task you are getting at least 100 valor per run after the first, more on the first of course.

This means that they are the absolute best way to cap fast right now.  As long as you can get a group that can blow through them.  And that brings me to a nice point 2.

You can not queue for these without a full group.  Welcome back community.  Welcome back getting to know the people you play with.  Welcome back making people want to be social.  Welcome back pugging.  Yes, pugging. 

LF2M to cap with scenarios.

With a good crew and some bonus stages met, not even all, you can valor cap in less than 3 hours.  Some LFR runs take more than 3 hours... for 90 valor. 

Cap valor vs 90 valor.

How do you want to spend your time playing?

Is the valor reward too much for the content you are doing?  Like I said, on my lesser geared characters and the characters I am not as skilled on these could prove to be a bit of a challenge and I will not be blowing through them like I did on my hunter with a like skilled group.  But even if I have to take it slow on alts, these would still prove to be a much more time appropriate investment to capping valor.  If that is your intent at least.

If these new heroic scenarios are going to be the major focal point of valor capping for the people that want to get the maximum out of their game time there needs to be some adjustment to other random content. 

Like the LFR, lets get back to the 250 valor per run for them.  Seriously.  Unless you need gear, or rep, or quest items, from them there is no reason to run them and we all know the gear drop rate is pretty much horrible.  So, long waits, bad groups, massive repair bills, and everything else you can say that is wrong with the game for 90 valor no longer seems acceptable.  Not when you can get 100 valor in 15 minutes AND a chance at a 516 piece of gear which is better than the LFR drops anyway.  If anything people should get more valor for hazard pay for having to do the LFR.

Will the heroic scenarios continue to be added to the game, will they continue to be the best way to get valor, will they continue to have enough interest in them after they have been out for a while to make getting groups easy for them?

Are they the future for the time obsessed player that just wants to valor cap as soon as possible?

At least for now, heroic scenarios are awesome if you want to valor cap ASAP.  No doubt about that and the fact that more than a few people in my guild are already capped for the week, even ones that have not capped in months, shows that.


  1. I'm glad you made this post because when I was running the scenarios this morning I was thinking of you. I was thinking "I need to go comment to Grumpy about how amazing these scenarios are for capping" and it's like you read my mind.

    I ran half a dozen this morning and was pretty surprised to find I had 600 valor when I checked. I ran them with my dk friend and then 2 other random guildies, both melee, so both sets we were all melee groups. We wiped a few times, had a learning experience. Missed the timer the first time in the crypt, made it with ease the second time. Still couldn't get the timer in Blood on the Snow the second time, I'm not sure what the trick is there, there must be one.

    I rather like the barrens area, I found doing the quest quite peaceful, that's one benefit of an empty realm as there were more than enough mobs for everyone. As everything dropped stuff there was no frantic "must tag x mob" and so it was just nice grinding. I have to say though that I'm somewhat disappointed and underwhelmed that I could get the title day one. I'll be back to that area as the 200 valor for the quest each week is a nice bonus for something I don't mind doing. Also I want the brawlers ticket (I got the pet this week) but there isn't even that much on the quartermaster that makes it worth going back.

    Part of me is pleased by that as this is a world event, it's time limited, and it won't be around forever, so I'm glad in a way that there isn't a lot I'll be missing out on. Even so, they went to all that effort to create a nice new area, which does work rather well, I found it quite peaceful just mowing down mobs, reminds me of my rep grinding days (oh so many pirates), and it'll become abandoned in short order I'd imagine. It took me a few weeks to get the Stormbreaker title as there were some things there that took time, and the treasure scenario achi took multiple weeks a) because I kept screwing it up and b) because I defy anyone to one shot all the requirements. However, to be a "hordebreaker" the day the patch is released, it's a bit like stamping done on 5.3. well on the promoted part anyway. There's all the new pets to gather, the next stage of the legendary quest for those who are that far ahead (I'm not thanks to my hatred of LFR) and yeah these heroic scenarios.

    Anyway I think these new heroic scenarios are great, and will definitely be how I get my valor from here on out. I might never complete the legendary quest as there's even less reason for me to subject myself to LFR, but hey those are the breaks.

    1. Now the biggest problem will be getting three people that want to do them on 10 different characters. lol

      I got the 10 chests and the kill the saurok on the same go which I thought was cool. That is the only one that took a while for me. I could never get the darn saurok to spawn and when he did as I opened the 10th one I was like... oh shit, oh shit, oh shit and killed him and got the title. Which I will add, still does not appear on my title list even if I do have it.

      I have not done the barrens quests yet. Have had no time. The scenarios being instant means no time to do things before queue. The good and the bad of it I guess.

      I hope I can get people to keep doing the scenarios with me, it would be a nice way to cap each week. Even more so now that the only thing I could use from the LFR is the tier helm and my quest items. Got exalted, so once I get my quests done and my tier helm there is no reason to go back.

  2. I ran one on my main 523Ilevel and then I ran one on my alt 493 Ilevel the difference was noticeable at least to me. It was a nice contrast as I got the same scenario on each but on the main we had like two minutes left to kill the boss and on the alt we wiped and missed the extra valor. Seemed like a great way to cap valor and was a lot of fun to have to form the group. I also liked the shiny 516 Item my alt got we seemed to have everyone pulling 516 items out of bags last night. I really liked that you can get weapons from them much needed!

    1. I don't expect to see a weapon from the bags, my luck is never that good. I did get bracers, which I already had 522s of, so it was just gold for me.

      I am expecting the same as you said. With my geared main it was a push over for the most part. On my alts, even more so the ones that are barely 480, I can see it being a bit of an issue and I would not assume getting the bonus like I would on my main. I think I like that little challenge.

      Best part is, no random people. So instead of people calling you bad because you are in the gear it is designed for, you are with people that know you are in the gear it is designed for. The people I play with are smart enough to know if we are all 480 it is supposed to be a challenge.

      And then the reward, oh man the reward, a 516 for completing that challenge, now that makes for compelling content. A fun challenge, an awesome reward, a fair deal of valor, and you get to play with people instead of randoms. I think I am going to like this, as long as I can get people interested to do them with me.

      On better geared characters it is completely the opposite. While not really a challenge it gives me the ability to cap out nice and quickly and I like that. But again, assuming I can always get people to do them with me.

      Maybe, just maybe, it can bring a little pugging back into the game. Sure, not the awesome raid pugs going 24/7 like we had in wrath but it is a start.

      I can surely see me advertising in trade for quick scenario caps.

    2. I haven't had a chance to run one yet but I saw a number of people on my relatively quiet server trying to put together groups in trade last night.

      Might have just been for the first one to get the guaranteed i516 item, though, that might not become a trade VP capping strategy, but we'll see where things go. At the very least it's some short-term activity.

      Now, I just have to find people willing to do it on 13 different toons. ;)

  3. I agree I could see me advertising for a quick pug cap on my main. def not on my alts. Although I had a chance to do the barrens stuff last night too and I really liked it. Also it seemed very alt friendly for people wanting to add a piece of 489 gear. I had two of the rare purple items drop for me. I also noticed I could buy them with the farmable crafting items and they were tradable to alts. I really liked being able to snag some lesser charms just because I was killing things for something else and the 200 valor for the quest was also nice. I think 489 is a bit low for items since the mojo seems to have a 1 per week cap and that’s kind of lame but if this is baby steps to a new system I like where it’s going.

    1. Baby steps for alts works for me personally. At least alts I have no intention to keep close to current. But a 489 piece for nothing is nice. I have to check them out, maybe this weekend.

    2. I like it being capped to one per week, personally, doing the weekly will probably take most people 2-4 hours, that seems like enough time to grind for an i489... if they didn't cap that you'd have people doing it for 40 hours in the first week to get 10 items. I haven't noticed the trade-in potential, though, so maybe they are farmable. I'm hoping they aren't.

      (and yeah, I get the argument of "why not let them farm longer to get more?" but I like reasonable caps, personally)

      I was able to do a bit more than half of the weekly last night just while queuing for the 4x ToT LFRs... maybe 90 minutes of mob farming, it wasn't bad. I was focusing on the higher-health mobs (the 1.1M guys), though, since they drop more and I can kill them almost as quickly as the smaller ones unless they're packed up nicely.

      In the first 6 hours or so of playtime you should be able to get i502 boots, a random i516 piece and a semi-random (since you can pick which slot you want if you have multiple choices, I have 2x helms so far) i489... that seems like a great start for not much effort and minimal RNG.