I've been hearing a lot about the death of normal modes and I agree, it seems to be happening. My progress through ToT has been dismal at best, if you can say that. Any other raid tier I would be at least 9/12 at this point and my group just can not manage that and while we have multiple people trying to recruit all day every day, on the forums, in trade, through word of mouth, even talking to people we meet in randoms or know from other servers, there are just no decent players out there any more to support a solid raid team on my server.
Odd thing is when taking about my core team, for the most, part these are the same people that did all of cataclysm no problem. Sure, we never downed nef in normal and were only progressing on rag but those were the only 2 bosses we did not down when current. As a normal mode casual guild that raids 2 hours that was fine with me. I always said if we raided more we would have had no problems and I am sure that is the case.
It is all about what you desire in the game. I only desire to do normals so doing normals is fine for me. DS was another story, it was a bit too easy and even more so when they started going crazy with the debuff. But in a way, that too was nice. It allowed us, a normal mode group to go through heroics like we normally go through normals. Best of both worlds maybe?
Either way, we are stuck this expansion and it is becoming harder and harder to recruit anyone that is even half way decent and even harder than that to keep anyone motivated. I am not world beater, not in the slightest and I do not ask others to be so either. I can do my 90K-170K, depending on the fight, and it is ample to get the job done.
The idea is finding other people capable of doing that. It is the not great but not bad either area, the area I would like to call average but sadly it is not the average. I would be hard pressed to find more than 20 people on my entire server that can do those numbers as a damage dealer and they are all over in different guilds. I guess in a way I am lucky my guild has five of them.
We tired to run 25 man last night, filled it with all guild members which is a start at least and it was horrible. Not horrible as in no fun, we did have some fun, but horrible as when looking at it and you ask yourself are these the best available players our server has, it is horrible.
We hit the brick wall many guilds are hitting on our first attempt at 25 man. Horridon door 2. Heck, looking at the numbers I am amazed we made it that far. I think even making it there was a result of the people that have been playing on normal being there.
We had a great balanced healing break down that should have made dispelling easy as cake. People were dying left and right to magic or poison effects. I could not figure out for the life of me what was going wrong. I explained everything as best I could, even for the absolute beginner and people were still not getting it. I gave assignments for who is on what, what should be tanked where, priority in kills and dispels and everything I could think of. Maybe it was information over load, but we hit door 2 and we hit the floor. Over and over again. Face, meet wall, full speed.
Looking at the damage done most of these people I would have not invited to DS after the 30% debuff. There was a warrior doing 17K. I know in that chaos doing melee is hard, it is for me too, but 17K is not acceptable in any way shape or form. The last time doing 17K was good was in ICC.
And the rest of the new raid damage dealers were in the 30 and 40 range. I know I should have never let a few come along but I wanted to give people a taste, something to help motivate them to do better, to get better, to work on their gear. Show them that if everyone is capable of stepping it up, this is what we can do.
After the raid I gave my review. As always I was not overly harsh of anyone. I knew there were a lot of people here that had not stepped into a raid this expansion, and in a couple of cases, never had been in one.
I mentioned the healers need to be dispelling smarter. I saw the add tank go down on a few attempts when there was a damage dealer at near full health that was getting their dispel. Dispel smart. I told everyone they need to do a little more to help themselves. Move when there is something bad at your feet. You can see sand traps falling, move before it starts. See poison, move, don't just side step it and forget it, it can move back under you, keep an eye on where you are standing.
About the only issue I did not complain about was the tanking but that is because we had our normal tanks. They have done this, they where not the issue.
We did a few attempts before I started to nit pick, because as anyone that has ever raided both 10 and 25 man will tell you, the feel of 25 man is a bit more organized chaos and for many it was their first experience doing it at that size that was not the LFR. Then I started taking notes while we attempted to progress past that second door.
Each time I would say things like, we had a few too many people standing in the bad, have to watch yourself when stuff is on the group. As a casual guild I do not ever single out unless there is a need for it, and at this moment, there is no need for it. Let the people think for themselves. Let them learn for themselves. They should be able to. That is how I learned, by making mistakes. That is how any decent player learns, they learn from their mistakes.
Next time I said, I want everyone on the venom priest's when they land. When that first single one lands it should be dead before the two come afterwards. If it is not dead before the second two land we might as well give up because we will never make it past that door. So switch. Instantly.
A few more attempts equal a few more wipes and each was because of the same thing over again. I call the raid for the night and in my speech afterwards I tell everyone why we did not do more attempts.
I said to start that for our first time assembling as a team and with many people that have never raided before we should be proud we even got as far as we did. That as we work together more we will get better but heavy mechanic fights are always harder on new people and we will get it if we keep working on it.
Then I went into the work on it mode. Besides what I previously mentioned there was the concept that people need to pick up their numbers. Seriously. If you can not down the first venom priest before the other two drop we are just going to be banging our head against the wall here.
As much as I stressed smart play, the mechanics, and all that other stuff, it once again came down to what it always seems to come down to. The damage dealers.
If you do not down that mob fast enough you are extending the time we are at that door which makes it harder on the healers and harder on everyone else as well because we will quickly run out of space. I mentioned the one attempt, and only attempt, we actually downed the mancer on the second door and closed it. There were mobs all over the place and there was poison everywhere. Some people could not make it to the third door because they were basically trapped by poison. I pointed out that as the perfect example of even if we close the door, if we are not downing things fast enough it is a wipe.
Basic idea is I came out and told the damage dealers. You need to get better. You need to do more damage, you need to interrupt more and you need to watch where you stand. The tanks did okay. The healers are getting better working as a unit and they will continue to. But if the damage dealers are not doing their job and getting the mobs down in a timely manner we are all just wasting our time. Practice attempts will let us all get better at switching and be able to time things better for damage on the mob that needs to go down, but if people are not doing enough, it will be impossible.
I said, next week I expect to see everyone with some new gear. Or upgraded gear. I expect them to spend some time on the dummy to work their rotation and get better at it. If they need gems, enchants or advice, come to me, I can give them everything they need. But they need to return the favor and get better.
I did not call anyone out by name, I did not call anyone bad, I even said we did awesome for out first time in there as a 25 man. I also told them how to fix the problem we had.
And when all was said and done, a series of /gquits came. WTF?
Did asking you to do your job correctly offend you? Did asking you to pull your weight offend you?
It is the LFR mentality. Everything thinks they should just be able to walk in and things should fall over dead. They don't think wiping in normals should ever happen. Well guess what, I don't think wiping in normals should ever happen either, but if you play badly you will wipe. Not hard to understand.
Sad part is, the people that left were the ones I saw with potential. Those middle of the pack ones. The ones doing 70K-80K, the ones that had a few interrupts, the ones that would have made it happen. They were the ones we could have built on and weeded up the 17K warrior and others with low numbers, low skill and low desire. And...
Giving this its own line because it deserves it.
The ones that left were the ones who normal mode content was made for. Some skill and some ability but not all that great.
Do you know why they left? Because they did not want to be stuck wiping in normals, they should be in heroics.
See, that is the LFR mentality. People only wipe in heroics. If you wipe in a normal you suck and I am better than you. Welcome to the new world where everyone is a heroic raider, even if they can only pull 70K in mostly 522 gear. People. You are a normal mode player. That is it, nothing more. If anything, you are not even good enough for most normal modes. I wanted to say that, I really did. But they wanted to move up to heroics because normals were beneath them.
Excuse me? Heroics? They were good enough for normals maybe, up and coming players, sure, but they would not even get a spot on a 10 man normal team unless there were just starting. And that is exactly what this 25 man is doing, just starting. Be happy with it.
The people doing sub 30K are all excited to do it again next week. But they are not good, and I don't want them back until they can start getting better. And not to be disrespectful but if you are rocking an item level over 480 and still only doing 30K, raiding is not for you. That is not an insult at all, that is just stating a clear fact.
The people that seemed to always stand in the bad are all excited to do it again next week. But they are not good. The easiest part of that fight is moving from the bad and if you can not handle that you do not even deserve to be in a raid. Yes, I understand that for some it is a computer issue and with your settings you can not see the bad on the ground. Well that means one of two things if you want to be a raider. Download an addon like GTFO that will yell are you, or get a new computer. Otherwise, you are not a raider, sorry.
The one healer that kept saying that people should come to him if they need heals because he doesn't want to run around like a chicken with his head cut off can't wait until next week either because he wants to raid again. Why couldn't he leave, I don't want or need anyone with that attitude in my raids. If you can't do your job, get better, this is a casual guild, you have time to learn because we do not demand perfection from the start. You don't tell people to come to you for a heal. Position yourself better so you can heal and work with the other healers to make a grid. Don't just find your happy place and stand there.
A 25 man has a lot of moving parts and it seems the only parts that want to stay are the people from the 10s on alts, and the bad players. Some bad players can get better, but we need those middle of the road players, the ones that are decent and have the chance at getting better with time and gear and they are the ones that are leaving because they want heroic progression.
I know it is only one week, but I really can not play like this any more. I can not play with the only people happy to raid and willing to wipe being the bad players. The people that could be great wanting more than their abilities allow them and the few good players I have getting frustrated by doing the same thing over and over again.
It could just be that fight. It is a bitch to say the least, but we did okay getting there our first day as a 25 and as far as I am concerned, it should be our last day as a 25, for now at least.
I feel defeated. The fights are just too hard for the player base I have available to me. I can not do it with the people that are on my server. And I do not want to teach a whole crew of people all over again. I am tired. I am beaten. I do not have the energy for that any more.
I would like to just find a group of people that, even if not great, all know how to play their class, all look up the fights on their own, and can all listen to instructions. I can deal with wiping with a group like that. I can't deal with wiping with a group like I had. Not any more. I am defeated.
And that is why normal modes are dying. Yes, I agree, normal modes are dead. If all the recruiting we could do resulted in this being the best our server had to offer that was available I might as well just quit.
I am feeling defeated and I definitely do not have the energy in me any more to be a raid leader and have to teach this new LFR generation of players how to raid after they have been tainted beyond my repair.
I've a decision to make if 25s are to be in my future. Quit raiding all together. Find another raid team on another server where I can just sit back and be a rank and file hunter doing my pew pew and collecting my loot and letting others worry about finding capable fill ins and letting someone else teach them. Or just quit the game all together.
I am feeling defeated. I just want to raid and I can't even do the thing I want to do to a level of reasonable success because the people are incapable of doing it. It feels as if I am being held captive by the player base and the player base loves torturing me. They win. I have been defeated.
I think the content is fine as is. The problem is with the player base. And I have been defeated by them.
an inexplicable ailment in Dalaran
6 hours ago