I'd like to start this post by talking about something not game related. Namely indoor plumbing. I would hazard a guess that very few of us alive in this day and age remember a time when we did not have indoor plumbing, unless you happened to live in a very rural area or were a member of the boy scouts. Indoor plumbing is something we take for granted, it has been with us our entire life, or at least been with most of us our entire life.
We have never had to get dressed to go outside in minus 30 degree weather in the middle of the night because we had to go to the bathroom. We have never had to put on our shoes when we walked to the bathroom. We have never had to deal with possibly running into a racoon or something worse while on a trip to go relieve ourselves. The simple ease of our bathroom being inside of our house, protected from the elements, and hopefully racoons, is taken for granted. It was a quality of life improvement that is no longer seen as special or a luxury as it might have first seemed when indoor plumbing first became all the rage.
Flight in warcraft is like indoor plumbing in life. It is a great quality of life improvement that we have become to take for granted. Flight has been with many of us our entire life playing the game, or at least the majority of it. There is a reason for that. The reason being that we, as a people, do not move backwards, we move forwards. Things that at one time, perhaps even in your lifetime, where considered luxuries or special and for only the few who could afford it are now things people can not live without. Why should we expect our gaming lives to be any different? We expect improvements over time, additions that make our lives better.
There was a day when only the rich families had cable television and everyone in the neighborhood would go over to watch movies. Now, everyone has cable and the people that do not have it want it because they feel it is "required". The same goes for a VCR, which has been replaced with the DVD player over the years, as an improvement, but there was a time when the people that owned one were few and far between.
I remember when having a computer was a big deal and that one person that had a connection to the internet, which wasn't even the internet yet, but they were the king of the hill. I'm pretty sure you all have internet connection now if you are reading this, so it is surely another things we take for granted. Lets talk about something that the younger crowd might understand, the cell phone. There was a time when no one had one and when they first came out they were more the size of a shoe box than a cigarette pack and only the rich and/or corporations had them, now in this generation can you imagine life without a cell phone, for most people at least? I am sure some people would enter into an instant panic attack and not be able to breath if someone told them they were removing cell phone from the real world.
Things are generally introduced into our lives, both in real life and in game, to make things better. They do not get subtracted, they never do, because they shouldn't. They were added as a quality of life improvement and they have become part of our every day life.
Warcraft used to be no different. They added more and more quality of life improvements each and every patch. Even the 6.1 patch that we all joke about as being without content came with a myriad of quality of life changes. Something even as simple as the "all" button when placing work orders was an amazingly good quality of life improvement. Simple quality of life change matters, to all of us, even if something like that might even go unnoticed.
Flying, as I see it, was the single largest quality of life addition the game has ever seen. It is like indoor plumbing. No one wants to start using an outhouse again and I hold no fault to anyone that does not want to run around on the ground again. I fully support the people that want flying back because it sets a negative trend to start removing quality of life improvements. One I do not want to see blizzard keep on with.
What could be next on blizzards chopping block? More things there were added to the game for quality of life reasons, to make the mundane things easier and more enjoyable, like flight was added to make the mundane task of travel better.
Do you think the day will come when we have to press the start work order button 21 times again instead of just once? Do you think you will need to start carrying around stacks of devout candles, symbols of kings, ankhs, and the such? Will hunters once again need to carry around ammo?
What other quality of life improvements is blizzard going to remove for no reason what so ever?
Well, there is one I actually wish they would remove. The quality of life improvement for druids where all travel forms were combined into one button is horrible. I want my land, sea and air options to be separate. This is the one rare, extremely rare, case where I believe a quality of life improvement was a bad thing. All other times, I am actually pretty supportive of all the quality of life changes.
And all in all, I am really upset that blizzard has decided to lower our quality of life by removing the single biggest quality of life change in the history of the game, flying.
Removing flying is no different than making priests need to carry around candles to cast their buffs once again, and making the buffs go on only one person at a time, and for a much shorter duration. Unless you are willing to carry a bunch of candles around again and buff every person in the raid one at a time and more often thanks to the lower duration, you can not say you support no flying. Because supporting no flying is the same as supporting needing devout candles again, and for that matter, it is the same as supporting removing indoor plumbing.
I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I like using my bathroom indoors and I like flying in game. These things are no longer special or a luxury, they are something everyone should have.
I don't want blizzard removing more quality of life improvements like flying. They should be adding things to make the game better, make the game move forward, not removing things to make the game worse and move backwards. But hey, they know best right?
What else are you prepared to lose? If you do not fight against the removal of flight, maybe next time what they take might be something that matters to you, and you will have no right to complain because you let them take this without a fight.
Christmas Is Coming!
17 minutes ago
As always Grumpy, I find your way of phrasing an argument or point of view to be innovative and outside the more common themes that populate the blogosphere.
ReplyDeleteI have kept up with about two dozen maybe three dozen blogs, forums, comment sections on MMO Champ and Blizzard Watch. If I had to make a rough guesstimate of how opinion breaks down, Id put the numbers like so.
15% of people are totally ok with or prefer no flying
30% of people are neutral, like their flying but aren't interested in the fight
55% of the people want their flying (this position ranges from disappointed in decision to foaming at the mouth rage-a-holics)
I would say these numbers are a bit more conservative, but when guesstimating I like to be a little cautious. The question I would posit to you, Sir. If these guesstimated numbers are accurate, is a majority opinion actively wanting flight in some form, and large majority preferring flight enough to make Blizzard reconsider their position?
Its easy for someone to compromise on a subject they have little to no investment in, such as compete all word order button. I think a better judge of Blizzards actual responsiveness to player wants and needs is when public preference goes counter to a strong desire/belief on their end, such as the matter of Flight.
Blizzard 3 years ago, I would have had confidence they would hear the players and respond in some level of compromise. Blizzard of 2015, I am not confident. My impression is they are more focused on the buisiness end of investors, subs, raw income (consider 3 token subs equals 4 paying subs), minimizing development costs to increase profit margins or free up capital to invest in diversifying their games (hearthstone, HoS, Overwatch). Their standard of release ONLY upon the highest standards has been relaxed to meet these corporate goals, and they rest on their reputation laurels, which I more frequently believe they are seriously risking in the long term.
Is that a good thing or a bad thing that I am different? lol
DeleteI think the majority, as the 55% you mentioned would have to add the 30% to it, because at least they "like it". So you are are talking 85% to 15%, which as a guess seems fairly accurate from what I see also.
In my guild of the 30 or so people I've spoken with 2 say they like no flying, a few say they are fine either way but would rather have it and everyone else is in the upset to foaming at the mount rage stage. So even if you are guessing, I would say your guess is reasonable from what I have seen. Maybe not perfectly accurate, but at least in the ballpark.
With that all said, yes, blizzard should give flying back based on the overwhelming desire to have it returned.
It is not a matter of right or wrong, or of pro flight or anti flight, it is a matter of removing a quality of life piece of the game that has been with us for as long as we can remember.
It would be similar to removing your indoor plumbing, your cell phone, your computer, etc. Removing something that has been with you so long it has become "required" and is no longer a luxury.
That is the way I see it. I dislike the lack of flight, greatly even, but I still caught all my battle pets, I still did all my archeology achievement, etc. I was not happy doing it without flying but flying most defiantly would have increased my quality of life in game.
I think this is an amazingly bad call on blizzards part. From the timing of the announcement, the place they chose to make said announcement and the tone of the announcement.
Sorry, but to me it comes off as some trade troll saying "we are doing it because... reasons".
If you can not give a real reason, than you have no reason to make such a change. Blizzard is trolling their players and that is not a good thing to do to paying customers.
Not to mention, as many have said, they kept saying they would look at the feedback and decide from there. They saw the feedback overwhelming wanted flying back and ignored it. It means they lied to us and our feedback meant nothing. Trust is a delicate thing and they fractured it. Perhaps beyond repair.
A good thing, Grumpy. Sure, perhaps you let your irritation dominate or at least significantly color your commentary, but this is "thegrumpyelf" after all. I would be silly to expect a blog to not have the context and framing upon which its branded.
DeleteEven while propounding that colored viewpoint, you make earnest and honest efforts to be fair, offer justifications for your points of view, and develop your thoughts logically. That makes your opinions more engage-able and understandable on an intellectual as well as emotional level. A very hard balance to strike, imho.
Having watched your frustration grow over the last 6 months and see that "one foot" slide firmly out the door, it saddens me. Obviously you have to do what you have to do for yourself, and I would be disingenuous if I said, I have not been moving in that direction myself. I don't think I"m as far down the path as you are, but I am on the same path moving the same direction, and for a lot of the reasons you have expressed here.
Regardless of where you end up, I thought it important for you to know that your dialogue is appreciate and why it is appreciated at least from this hunter.
Good Hunting.
I fought the only way I know how that might matter. For the first time since 2006 I have unsubbed. I have until July 13th. I hope something changes in that time.
ReplyDeleteAll I've done recently is log in to make money I don't need from follower missions. I'm pretty sure if I'd been able to fly I could have found something to do. My only option now is to do old content to acquire, you guessed it, flying mounts.
I really think that if I had believed Hazzikostas in the Polygon interview I would wait and see but sadly I didn't.
I might be behind you, but sadly I am the type of person that just would not log in but would keep paying. Just in case I felt like logging in. So even if I "quit" so to speak my vote would not matter as they would still be getting my money and it seems my money matters more to them than my happiness as a player.
DeleteFlying is content. Removing it is just another way of removing content, which seems to be the norm lately for blizzard. I can't say I understand why they have gone this route, but I can say I am not very happy with it.
Good luck staying gone long enough for them to notice. As I said, I am also one foot out of the door already myself.
I miss the mass summon guild perk more than flying, which they also took away. Seems like we could keep at least one way to quickly get people to the dungeon or raid.Losing both stinks, and I say that as someone who owns a cabin without indoor plumbing. In bear country.
ReplyDeleteSo you use the outhouse. lol
DeleteI'd be willing to bet you would not mind a quality of life upgrade. ;)
I miss that one too. There were to many ways people were "abusing" it, as blizzard said. But I think it came down more to people loved it and by design anything people love blizzard needs to screw up.
What if instead of removing flying, they added new gameplay elements that makes flying more risky? Anti aircraft guns, throwing spears, dismounting chains, flying mounted combat, or something similar? I I always thought how they implemented flying in Wow was lackluster and boring and basically a method to skip stuff when their goal was always to make you stay longer so skipping stuff is the opposite of that.
ReplyDeleteThey tried that, and I loved it.
DeleteDo you remember halfhill when mists first came out. Those birds would follow you for miles. They followed me into the inn many times. I saw dead bodies all over the place from people that tabbed out in the air. It was great. That is exactly what flying should be like. With dangers in the air.
But what did blizzard do? They removed it because people cried on the forums.
How come they choose to take a stance on the wrong things each and every time. They should have stuck to their guns on the dangers of flying, and given in this time and give us flying back.
If there are two choices to make, blizzard will choose the wrong one most times.
I've said this before but love him or hate him, Ghostcrawler was our punching bag and the voice of WoW. He came out and made announcements and we had someone to complain to.
ReplyDeleteHaving played many games that didn't have flight, I agree with earlier comments that Blizzard made stating the allowing flight was the worst decision they ever made. Flight trivialized the world. But man was it ever convenient to fly in and get the goods and fly out. Case in point were those quests in the Blasted Lands prior to WOD where you could just fly in and take out the mobs you needed to and grab the items you needed to and leave. The fact that it was inside a fortress was completely trivialized and I felt the whole quest was worthless and that any idiot could do what I did to accomplish it.
The problem is once people get a convenience they feel they can't live without it. And even though there isn't flight allowed in Draenor, we are constantly reminded that there is still flying whenever we port back to the old world or anywhere (except the Isle's of Queldanas, Thunder, Eternity and Dinosaur Island; along with the Draenei and Blood elf starting areas). Remember when pagers were the rage? And then we got cell phones. And now we have smart phones. And now we are getting smart watches (you have no idea the ramifications of these tech gadgets become mainstream in the eyes of someone that has to worry about security of classified information. We will soon need to force people to come into a room naked after extensive x-ray before they can do their jobs now. Thank you technology).
Flying has become such a convenience that it has turned the hardcore players into lazy I can't be bothered with it types. I understand your stance on this Grumpy because my time is limited and I don't like the idea of wasting time either. You know if they really wanted us out in the world, they wouldn't have given us the garrison time sink. Flying would have encouraged people to leave the garrison. I never liked archeology but can't be bothered with fighting mobs, climbing mountains and ravines to move around the arch dig site.
It was obvious to me that they weren't going to bring flying back. They left skirted around the issue but never firmly stated they were going to allow it. They used words like seeing how things were going and player opinion but ultimately it's there call whether they wanted to bring it back or not.
Thuggs broke down percentages on opinions on forums but that only reflects those that are vocal (however minute it most likely reflects less than 30% of the total player population). It wouldn't be hard for Blizzard to implement an in game one question survey that prevented you from logging in without answering it (do you want flying? Yes, no or don't care?) but Blizzard doesn't care. They made up their mind and they feel that they know what's best.
I stopped playing Diablo III after I finished it the first go round because of it's lack of portability (a huge selling point of Diablo II). I have been happy with Hearthstone and Heroes of the Storm. I don't play StarCraft II. WoW has always been my game of choice. I save money because I don't play anything else (hardly). I stopped my sub for a year but came back with WOD. There is a complete lack of end game content but leveling through was awesome (probably the best leveling in their history). End game is raid or bust. PVP is and always has been a juggling act of balance without breaking PVE (they've failed on this many, many times).
Just want to point out they DID definitely say they would bring back flying to Draenor. Prior to WoD release, Bashiok said:
DeleteWe intend to disallow flying while leveling from 90 to 100, and have flying become available again in the first major patch for Warlords of Draenor.
But, don't quit until you've experienced the next patch. You've earned it. Don't quit until you hear what Watcher says on Saturday (the 6th I think). Let's see if he tries skirting the issue or has some truly valid points.
ReplyDeleteRemember that there was a time when you had to be 40 to get 60% and level 60 to get 100%. The prices were super expensive and that doesn't include the price of the mount.
With that being said, this expansion had issues, but quitting due to lack of flight isn't a big enough reason to quit. But you pay for a product. If it doesn't meet your satisfaction, then don't pay for the product anymore. You don't like what's on tv? change the channel. We have enough people that complain about programming on tv when they just need to change the channel. If you don't like WoW anymore, stop playing.
But that doesn't mean you have to like stop playing. And you have just as much a right to complain as every American in this country because that is our God given right so long as freedom prevails. Let the folks at Blizzard know that you don't like it. But it's their product, we are simply playing/renting it.
I am not quitting yet, but logging in each day does make me feel like I am being played for a fool. Paying for a game with flying that does not have flying.
DeleteHey, they say a fool and his money will soon be parted, they are true. This fool is still paying.
Don't like flying, fine walk , gallop there. But don't take away the choice. Its like getting a car, you can walk to the store but having to do so because the DMV took your license away sucks no freedom. NPCs that fly or give rides are a insult. Supposedly I fought gods, I saved your civilization, heck your planet. I have highest faction with you. Yet I can't be trusted with a flying mount?
ReplyDeleteI agree we should have the choice, blizzard does not. They would rather keep people slowed down to make the game appear bigger than it really is.
DeleteAnon, choice has always been an illusion. Have you ever had a survey that asked you if you thought the food was good, great or awesome with no room to write down what you really want to say? It's their game, we are just playing/renting it. If they feel that the game will be better without flying, it's their call. We don't have to like it (in their eyes).
ReplyDeleteBut let me lay out a different way, the residents of Draenor don't want anyone to fly because it goes against their religion, race, sexual preference, gender, etc.
But Blizzard sold many a mount to people through their in game store. People purchased those mounts with the belief that they would be able to fly on them too. A refund or credit should be given to everyone that did so because they purchased under false pretenses.
But ultimately that is the price of success. When you become the top dog and you have investors, everything becomes about the bottom line: MONEY.
Choice is not an illusion. There is just always a "best" choice and for people that want the best they will always take that choice.
DeleteBut there is still a choice. You can walk, you can ride a ground mount or you can fly. You can move at two different speeds on the ground and three different speeds in the air.
So are you saying that the characters I did not buy 310 flying on didn't have a choice? They did have one and I made the choice to not waste the gold on an alt I don't plan on using.
See, just because 310 flight is the best option, doesn't means I did not have a choice.
Well, I guess I'll be the black sheep here.
ReplyDeleteI actually do not mind not having flying. (and to answer your assumption, I wouldn't mind reageant for spells back, it does add flavor to the class).
Essentially the way I see it, I don't mind it either way. I can recognize that both having flying and no flying in game gives gameplay opportunities. Opportunities upon which blizzard NEVER capitalized, that is the problem.
It's true that as for now, having flying in game wouldn't cahnge anything, but for me that doesn't mean that blizzard should add flying in dreanor, but put in content with meaningfull reward that actaully takes advbantage of no flight.
Having it in game now would change something, at least for me.
DeleteI log on to a character and queue up for something. When I am done with my garrison duty I look at the time left. If it is a lot, like it always is, I log out and move to the next character.
If there was flying in game I would mount up and fly off, do some fishing, maybe just grab some rares I might have missed, do a little gathering, all because I have the ability to move about under my own control. But without flying, I log out because I would rather stare at the wall in my house than sit in the garrison and listen to the anal, obama, etc chat in trade.
You are correct. But many people of various reasons why they play this game (and have played so long). Mine are the diversity of the shaman class (even though it seems to have so many ups and downs throughout the life of the game), playing with friends and being able to do things with and speak to them (through a 3rd party chat, not that awful ingame party chat feature), and game content/lore. The entire lore of the game is phenomenal. The reach of the game across the world has had me playing with an aussie friend since he was 15 (I didn't know this until we asked him how old he was, 8 YEARS LATER! He had a deep voice so this wasn't obvious).
ReplyDeleteI didn't mind reagents either except the shaman ones because you couldn't buy them from the reagent vendor (fish oil and scales anyone? And why did they take away underwater breathing from shaman?? That and removing sentry totem were the hugest nerfs to shaman ever!!).
I had so many stacks of those saved up. I don't recall ever having underwater breathing on a shaman. A lock, yes, shaman no. Perhaps I am just remembering wrong.
DeleteI was not upset to see reagents gone. I like my bag space and any time they do something to free some space I am all for it.
My recommendation for the next quality of life improvement/game enhancement/innovation they should take away would be archeology. None of my friends, myself or anyone in my guild is doing archeology in Draenor. We all go to Pandaria to collect artifacts, box them up and then trade them in Stormshield for archeology quests. Why? Because without flying archeology is a ponderous task that consumes too much time for little to no benefit. Flying is practically essential for efficiently doing archaeology when one has limited time. So if they remove flying, I highly suggest that archeology be removed soon thereafter from all components of the game. The quality of my game life would improve without Draenor archeology. However, I suspect that Blizzard in their all knowing will choose to remove something subscribers find a greater quality of life improvement to the game - like bags that hold more than 6 items.
ReplyDeleteCant wait until they remove Dual Specs as it totally breaks immersion and having to go back to your capital cities trainers "makes the world feel bigger and more interactive". Trust us it is for the good of the game. Dual Spec was a mistake we never should of made...
ReplyDeleteI actually miss having to go back to the city to learn skills and not having enough silver to buy them all so I had to pick and choose which ones I leveled up.
DeleteAh, memories.
I do think just learning them does take a little away from the game, but that is what most quality of life improvements do.
Personally, I think the whole immersive experience is destroyed by allowing any mounts, character running, and roads. Think about it, if you are on a mount and a road, in most zones you can gallop right through areas filled with mobs, thus avoiding all the intended "depth" and "vision" for the area.
ReplyDeleteBeing mounted or bring able to run trivializes combat, it allows you escape or enter combat at will.
But most of all, it is not fun. Players want to savor the zones in WoW, to experience them slowly and completely. Trust me, I play this game, and I know for a fact you will all have a better experience when we remove all mounts, roads that avoid mobs, and character running.
Anything someone considers immersive is purely opinion. I always found flying to be very immersive. Some think a ground mount is more so. And I can surely see where the no mount argument might really hold water.
DeleteIn the flying vs no flying debate however immersion should never come up. Anyone's opinions on immersion are just that, opinions.
But for the sake of fun, I can support that. No mounts what so ever. I'll be on the outside looking in when that happens however because I like being able to trivialize combat and escape at will. ;)
Anon, Grumpy's former Guild Leader:
ReplyDeleteNo flight for ever after does not sound like a happy ending but rather much sounds like an original Grimm fairy tale and not one sanitized by Disney. I think once authorized by the gold payouts, flight should be available at all times past level 59, i.e. starting at level 60 and going forward. I know that is a minority view, but it is how I think the game should be designed. I can accept the compromise position of flight starting at level cap in a new expansion. I find it lazy design work to have to do so, but still I can accept it.
I know that they did not mean vision as prophetic visions, but rather a game design concept of how they see things going forward, but for all they have communicated about how that is superior, it may as well be inspired by Elune's worst nightmares. I am pretty sure that such fever induced nightmares can explain the twisted thinking that considers it a good thing to be spending all of the company's goodwill and trust on such a minor point as to exclude flight from this and future expansions.
That loss of trust is really the key issue in all this, way past the importance of flight/no flight in and of itself. Do I as a player trust them to have the game first or the bottom line? No, I no longer trust their designers to be working on releasing the best game possible and I do think that money is behind the change. I want Blizzard to be a rich and famous name that got that way because they are committed to making the best games possible with as little down time to poorly prepared material as possible. The evidence indicates that is no longer the case, that turning out a released product that is neither finished nor polished of in-game mistakes and errors is the new normal. I suppose the meme of "New Blizzard" reflects that change as much as anything.
I am truly in a quandary over this. Should I just quit playing and cancel my subscriptions? It feels like that the amount of lost subscriptions is going to be the only way to make Blizzard sit up and take notice. But with all its faults and flaws, I still want to play. I guess I want to leave World of Warcraft on my own terms and not be forced out by a management snafu.
I think my solution is to withdraw my credit card information and revert back to visiting a local store to buy a time card when I want to play beyond the end of my subscribed time. First though, I am going to be patient and see how things go with the Q & A session set for June 6. I expect it is going to be cut short due to the anger of the fans who will not accept the standard script put forth by Blizzard when they speak to the fans.
With an ad/PR budget over twice and nearly three times that as a developmental budget (as detailed in the http://seekingalpha.com/article/3186766-activision-blizzard-setting-up-for-a-tumble#comments_header article), it is no wonder at all to me that Blizzard is heading in a wrong direction. Reverse those numbers and Blizzard might, maybe, perhaps start to right their ship before it goes belly up. The odds of righting the ship would also be improved with some judicious firings and replacements as well as getting rid of some very senior management.
The health of Blizzard is not so great that it can withstand shock after shock to the system. WoW exploded out of the gate when it was released, far exceeding any expected popularity. The reverse can happen just as quickly. If people don't think change can come about that fast, ask the USSR...oh, wait, you can't, the communist state disappeared in a week. So while Blizzard may take a tiny bit more time than the USSR to go away, don't think it can't happen.
Trust is the larger issue that many people have not read into it. There is always a story between the lines and the story behind no flying is not the lack of flight, it is the disrespect and lies blizzard has poured on its player base.
DeleteI would have to disagree that flying equates to indoor plumbing. Personally a bit of a big jump. It's more a bit like running out of coffee. It hurts the head when it's gone, but alternatives (albeit less pleasant) do exist.
ReplyDeleteBlizzard promised that it would reevaluate the issue later in the expansion’s lifetime. (GameRant
I totally understand why we don't have flying. Think of Timeless Isles and how they placed 'treasures' everywhere. Blizzards wants that back. They want people exploring the terrans they spent months/years working on. Flying over the content, we bypass all their planning for zones, and miss the 'experience' that they are trying to sell. They've realized this and took the hard stance saying no more flying, ever.
Think about it though... This means they will develop the next expansion, with flying never in the plan. They will create an environment that hopefully has wonderful pathing, no invisible walls, and maybe gameplay that favors the freedom they gain with no flight (i.e. back to Vanilla, or opening of BC).
Anon, Grumpy's former Guild Leader:
Delete"Think about it though... This means they will develop the next expansion, with flying never in the plan. They will create an environment that hopefully has wonderful pathing, no invisible walls, and maybe gameplay that favors the freedom they gain with no flight (i.e. back to Vanilla, or opening of BC)."
And also think about how likely it is that a majority posting on this site now will actually be there to experience it. I am still subscribed but it is wavering hard towards stopping. I do not think I am the only one who likely will never see such an expansion because we do not trust Blizzard to make it, and even if they did, we do not trust that Blizzard will continue to uphold such a high level of design.
For me and for a lot of others apparently, judging from the postings on the official Blizzard forums, that is the issue in a single word: trust. The loss of faith is an awful thing, and once lost, it is near to impossible to gain it back. I have had friends who broke trust with me and while I forgave, I never forgot either nor have I anywhere near the same level of trust with them now that I did before they lost my faith. Now it is "yea, I will take your word on it, but even so, I am keeping an eye open."
If Blizzard cannot quickly resolve this issue with a statement admitting that they got a idea wrong and badly wrong at that and that they will work hard to resolve it in a manner I find personally acceptable, then no, I have reason to trust them. Even with such a statement, my level of trust then will be along the lines of "trust but verify" or in other words show me you mean it. I just cannot accept anything less nor should I be expected to do so.
I say this as a person who has been playing Blizzard's games since Warcraft: Orcs vs Humans and have loved playing them, as a person who has repeatedly told friends to trust Blizzard reputation as a great game design company. I won't say those words again and if this turns out as badly as I suspect it will, I will be saying the exact opposite to any and all who ask about Blizzard as a game company.
Blizzard did have a chance to design for no flight....Warlords. They failed. Am I supposed to keep paying and buying expansions in the hope that they some day get it right? Sorry but no....
Delete@ Elkagorasa
DeleteIt is not a jump at all. Both are quality of life improvements. You could compare it to a million quality of life improvements. I just decided to use plumbing for the quality of life improvement for the possible innuendo someone might read into it.
As far as the hidden treasures. I have yet to meet even one person that liked them. Sure they liked them the first time, while leveling and finding them the first time, but after that they all would rather just get it and move along. Heck, some don't even try to get them the first time because it is not fun for them.
They had the largest staff they ever had and gave us the least content they ever had at an increased cost. All with no flying. No, absolutely not, removing flying does not mean we will get more or better content. It means they are just trying to add even less next expansion.
I'm in favor of no flying in the current expansion(s). The game experience is more engaging and a more immersive game environment is achieved. All of the analogies offered here on the subject of flying are really quite a stretch and silly. The content was created to be experienced(That is what your pay money every month) and flying in current content is just cheating yourself out of the game experience you paid for.
ReplyDeleteHuzzah!
Calling an argument "silly" without giving any reason why it is silly automatically invalidates anything you say because it sounds like the troll line "... for reasons". But I will humor you because every response is worth hearing.
DeleteThere is nothing "more engaging" or "more immersive" about being on the ground. Those are opinions at best and hyperbole at least, not facts. But that is not to say me saying flying is immersive and engaging means anything either. That is an opinion as well.
So the immersive argument is a complete no go. What people find immersive is opinion and only opinion. You can not use your opinions as a counter point. Opinions are not facts.
To use your own words against you. The content was created to be experienced. Well, everyone is missing out completely on the experience of flight, of being able to see the beautiful landscape from the sky it is full glory as it was intended to be seen. You are missing out on what you paid for the game to see. All of it.
Most people like indoor plumbing (flying) but just because you don't it doesn't mean everyone should be forced to use the outhouse. It really is as simple as that.
Quality of life improvements are for betterment and ease, flying is a quality of life improvement even if you think it is a "silly' argument. That is a fact.
"That loss of trust is really the key issue in all this"
ReplyDeleteThat is the conclusion I have come to.
Blizzard have sold me store-mounts with no indication that they would have reduced functionality in the future. I am sure it's in the small print that they could do that and I'm not disputing they have the right, but I trusted them when I spent my money and now I don't.
More important than the money I've spent is my time. I started collecting mounts pretty much as soon as I started playing. A lot of them are flying mounts, some of them took a lot of time to drop.
During WoD I had been working towards Dragonmaw rep. now, I don't see the point. I had something to do that I enjoyed and now, it just seems pointless.
If I was convinced that this was for the good of the game, I could accept it but I'm not.
Look at the way heirlooms trivialise content. They put the player in 'God mode' and they make anything crafted for your level worthless and since you can buy them for gold, they are available to all. They trivialise questing, instances and professions, yet the devs see no problem with that.
If players want to avoid things they will. Some classes have mechanics that make it easy, other people have to be more creative. Is it any worse to use 'stealth' to sneak past enemies on my rogue than to fly down closer to the objective on my mage? As long as I'm prepared to pay my sub does it matter if I enjoy the content in the way the devs didn't envisage? Are they really right to try and correct me and force me to play in a manner I don't enjoy?
Anyway, a quest where you can just fly to the objective and then fly out again is just poorly designed in my opinion and oddly enough, looking at older content designed with flying in mind, a lot of quests don't allow you to do that.
As to the world feeling bigger, I've never felt as hemmed in as I have in WoD. Flying would allow them to put content on different levels and gate access, much as they did in Pandaria.
I've heard all the arguments about how this will 'improve' the game and I'm not convinced.
Reduced development costs in the future seems to be the only logical reason they are pushing this. And the sad thing is, if they told me that I'd respect them a whole lot more.
Yeah, at least the budgeting reason would be an honest answer.
DeleteI agree that if people believed it would better the game it would be an easier pill to swallow but most people that want flying back do not believe anything will change except we will be on the ground. That is also the belief I hold.
DeleteI don't see what their concern is if people just fly in, grab something, and fly out really is. If someone wants to do that, let them, it is their game they pay for and that is how they like to play it. If they do the quest while leveling there is no flying, if they choose to wait until they can fly, that is their choice. So the whole "it makes questing better" is one I can not get behind.
At least not when druids, hunters and rogue can effectively do the same thing as flying but by walking. Avoid everything and go to the target. So being that is part of the design of the class to do it, they can not say they are keeping us on the ground for said reason. Not when only some classes get screwed by the decision.
I don't really believe in the reduced development cost either. They will always make the world so we can fly in it now. That is just part of the design copy and paste they work with now. So even if we will not have flying the zones will in fact be capable of supporting it. It just will not be activated. So from a development angle, I think not enabling it is actually a complete waste of resources. If things are built for flight to begin with, flight should be allowed, at some point at least. Such as in 6.2 flight should be enabled for all the zones that were around previously.
I am not simply pissed about not being able to fly in WoW. In fact I was all for it on the release of WoD. However, after seeing how dry and small WoD content was the point became very clear. By not implanting flying again Blizzard intends to produce less content for the same price. I mean has anyone else noticed that WoD has the smallest map we have ever gotten so far from any expansion? They even removed Tannan Jungle before release.
ReplyDeleteIf players merely sit back and do nothing it shows they approve of less content with their subscription price each month. I on the other hand refuse to take it “grounded”.
That is a byproduct of it. They can make smaller worlds because they "look" bigger without flying. I said it when I was on beta, the world is too small. It might look large on the map, same as others, but travel wise, it is tiny in comparison.
DeleteThe expansion is missing so much, flying is just the tip of the iceberg really. I miss valor and valor gear, that motivated me to play alts. I have no desire for that without it.
Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.mmo-champion.com/content/4946-Dev-Watercooler-Flying-in-Draenor