Tuesday, May 12, 2015

Should LFR Drop Better Loot or None At All?

I was reading a post on the forums where someone was complaining about LFR, as if it were some sort of new thing that they just noticed, and saying that LFR creates the feeling of entitlement.  At least that is what I believe he was trying to convey as his central message.

The reasoning for this post is that I am not sure if I agree with him.  I am either part of the people that feel entitled to more from LFR, because I do actually feel that way, or I am the type of person that believes LFR is fine for what it does, because I feel that way too.

I guess I feel both ways depending on who's perspective I am looking at it from.  On the grand scale of things looking at the game as a whole I think the LFR is absolutely fine.  I also do not see it being what he sees it being, a place where people go to demand more. 

His argument is that the LFR only crowd wants the "ahead of the curve" achievement, they want the real tier sets, they want mounts, they want to do achievements, they feel entitled to it all.

I don't see it that way.  I see it as the people who actually want these things use the LFR as the tool it was intended to be and springboard to a higher level once they are able using the new group finder system or finding a guild on their server that is just starting progression on normal modes or is not very far in.

Thanks to the change of flexible if they actually "try" to do well they can make the adjustment from LFR to really raiding easily enough.  Carrying a noob, for lack of a better word, that can follow instructions and does a fair job is not a problem at all and they are no longer locked out because the group already has their 10 people or 25 people.  They can join and contribute and learn to get better.

See, what I am getting at is that the people who actually do want those achievements, those titles, those mounts, they can use the LFR as a springboard to work their way toward it.  I personally can not say I have seen people asking for any of the things he has suggested in LFR.  Not even once.

However on the flip side, I do believe there is a feeling of entitlement.  At least from my perspective because I can say I feel it.  Yes, I feel entitled to more from LFR.  Then again, I am not the one that the LFR was created for, so that could be the reason for that.

I am not doing the LFR on alts this expansion.  I would like to get a dozen rings just like I did a dozen cloaks last expansion, but without valor which was a huge motivator to get me to do it, because even if I did not get the drops I wanted I still gained some currency that could get me some decent gear otherwise, I have no desire to step foot into LFR without valor and valor gear, simple as that.  Not even a legendary ring is enough bait for me.

Why is that?  Because the gear sucks balls, if you will excuse me being extremely rude about it.  640 gear and 655 gear?  No thank you.  I need to do it each week every week on alts not geared enough to pug, or because I would rather just not pug because their gear sucks or I suck at them (like on my rogue).

Without valor there as the consolation prize that I can use to gear up my alts to be closer to raid ready where my main is currently raiding LFR has lost all of its draw for me.  I believe this is working as intended.  Not a shot at blizzard either saying that.  They said they wanted to make actual raiders feel as if there were no reason to run LFR and, for me at least, they have done exactly that.  Kudos to blizzard on a job well done.

But that is why I say I feel entitled.  If I am going to run LFR I want to get gear that is raid ready.  I do not want garbage 640 and 655 gear.  It should at least drop valor which in turn I could use to buy 685 gear so my alts can keep up with my main, just like they always have since I started playing.

So this guys entire argument is wrong, at least as I see it.  He was stressing that the LFR only players were feeling entitled to these things.  I just do not see it.  Never have.  I can not recall one time ever seeing an LFR only player saying they should get more from LFR.  The only people, or person in the case of me, that feels any entitlement to better things from LFR are the people that have already passed it.  The ones that raid at a higher level.

So in effect, he made a post complaining about entitlement in the LFR when in fact the entitlement was coming from people already doing normals or more so heroic and especially mythic.  We people, the ones that play well past the LFR level with organized groups, we are the ones that would like to see more come from the LFR.  The LFR only people are happy with it because that is all they do so they do not want, or need, more.  This is how I believe it to be based on my own feelings and that of which I read around other place, or maybe it is just me?

Either way, I do not agree with him.  LFR is not creating entitlement.  Not even in the slightest.  It is making the people that want things move up from there and it is making the people like me not do it because it does not offer gear on the scale I am used to receiving.  Neither of us are really feeling a sense of entitlement.  We are both just seeing LFR for what it is.  Them, a starting point, me, something that is a waste of time.

Do you think LFR is creating a generation of warcraft players that think everything should be handed to them like this guy suggests?  I don't think so.

As a matter of fact, I think the LFR is in the best place it has ever been since it was introduced.  Sure the toxic players still make it hell sometimes and extremely bad groups can still make it a very unfun experience, but the LFR is in the best place it has ever been as I see it.

He wants the LFR to drop no loot at all, I would love to see it drop better loot for my alts, we are both wrong.  It is just fine.  Doesn't mean we have to like it... it wasn't made for us.  How can some people still not see that?


  1. If lfr dropped no loot, no one would bother doing it after the first two weeks, if at all. Seems like it defeats the purpose of having a tourist mode if no one will use it. Perhaps if they were able to scale it down to a solo instance it might work but that presents complications of its own.

    1. I would absolutely love the LFR if it was a solo run that dropped 640 and 655 loot. I do not think the reward is enough for having to put up with the people in it or the wait time for it.

      But that would defeat the purpose of LFR completely as it is meant to be a stepping stone for real raiding.

  2. I am mildly annoyed that it doesn't drop tier gear like before, but tier gear is not enough motivation for me to spend 7+ hours a week on raiding. I have Axiom Verge to finish!

    1. Me too. I liked being able to get that elusive piece you kept missing from the raid just so you could have your 2 or 4 piece. I don't think they should have ever removed that because of some elitists that cried because they didn't like that someone had the same tier set they did.

      I've always said, I do not care if they give gear away for free. It is how the person plays that matters, the gear is just a means to an end. So it never bothered me. I had my mythic 4 piece and they had their LFR on back in SoO. Didn't bother me at all.

    2. I'm glad they made the tier set change, but not because I don't want others to have the gear. I think it provides motivation for players to move up to the next difficulty level. And more players raiding is good for all of us.

    3. Haha, sure didn't work on me!

    4. I can see how it could provide motivation for some to move up, but if all anyone wants to do is raid LFR they are not going to move up just because of the tier set.

      I have seen more and more people, ex raiders, settling into the LFR only mode. Different tier sets aren't making them go back to raiding at normal or better difficulty.

      For some it is a motivation, for others, not so much. Not to mention, the LFR tiers sets are actually better than the normal ones in many cases. There was an elemental shaman in my group, LFR tier set, rocking the charts on certain fights like operator, maidens, beast lord, because the LFR tier set is so amazing. He even beat me on the three mentioned fights while 30 item levels lower, and I log at 97% or better on every fight usually. His second top damage dealer? The LFR tier set bonus. Not kidding you. LFR tier is not bad, so stepping up is a personal thing, not a gear thing, for some at least.

  3. Another reason why valor points should return. At least have a small chance of dropping better gear. Keep people playing like savings account or gambling.
    Next expansion, it's ALL vendor trash, salvage yard consolation stuff maybe worth keeping for a transmog if it has a unique look.

    1. Yeah, I miss valor, it was a great motivator for me and many others. I still do not see why they removed it.

  4. Achievements never worked in LFR, so I don't think we really miss that. Besides, Achievements typically require group coordination that you don't have in LFR.

    Mounts were never there either.

    Gear and Tier sets are definitely a topic of contention. I think it made more sense when LFR was the same gear that was just re-skinned. The truly debatable point comes with Tier sets. It's annoying for raiders to feel the need to do LFR to finish their 4pc, but it's nice for LFR players to get access to the tier sets. I think this could be handled by the tier bonus scaling with iLvL somehow so that Mythic 4pc is not the same as LFR 4pc. However with three levels of regular raiding, that may not even matter anymore; need that 4th piece, pug a normal raid if you don't want to do LFR.

    I agree that with flex, LFR could even fit better as training/prep for real raiding compared to the past. Although, I think they did gear wrong in WoD, where LFR gear doesn't really get you ready for an 'easy' transition to Normals. As grumpy said, we need valor gear!

    I fit into a weird category as an ex-progression raider who now only does LFR, so my perspective is kind of weird...

    My main complaint is that I really have no reason to run LFR after finishing the legendary and I can't really commit to a regular raid team due to real life stuff and pugging is not really my thing. Personal problems of course, but still, I'm not the only player in that situation. I think there are things Blizz could do that would cater better to the casual 'aspiring' raiders; one major thing being the return of valor and valor gear.

    1. I agree most of the things do not fit. I think the guy was full of it personally. I'd never seen people in LFR asking for this stuff and not sure where he did that he thinks everyone wants it and feels entitled to it.

      As you mentioned, the LFR can use a boost, at least in the forum of valor once again being added, because the gear from LFR is not great for the transition unless the person is already a skilled player.

      Look at pugs with the "average" player for something like BRF normal. They are asking for 670 most of the time, which is what the raid drops. How is an LFR person supposed to make the step up unless they get lucky or have time to join a guild with a set raid time. So yeah, the LFR gear is not really suited for stepping up and moving on. I agree.