Monday, March 24, 2014

Monday Random Thoughts

- Another week without playing much.

- I did like the announcement that you can now do normal and heroic SoO cross server now.

- Ever heard the term too little too late blizzard?

- I joined in with a few other blog writers in one of the guilds I am in and did a 25 man run cross server.

- It was nice to get to raid with some people from the world of blogging.

- It was a nice smooth run for the most part.

- Had a few of those, whoops, wipes on one boss but otherwise no problems.

- Nothing wrong with wiping, it happens to everyone even if you have been doing it a million times.

- I was glad to test out the cross realm raiding and say there were no issues.

- At least not in the run I had.

- Outside of that I only logged in this week to assemble raids.

- Not because I want to raid, I don't.

- I don't even want to play.

- But if I do not log in and assemble the raids, the guild will not raid, and it will fall apart.

- So even taking a break from the game I can not take a break from the game.

- That is how hate for a game builds up.

- Sure, I could just say I am not doing it, but I feel it is my responsibility.

- So I pop on, assemble a raid group, fill in one of the roles if needed, or send them on their way if I am not and stay in contact on voice chat should they need me for anything.

- So even not playing the game at all I am still playing the game.

- Still not sure if I will be playing next expansion.

- Garrisons are the only thing that interest me, and lets be honest here, they could have been added as a patch.

- They did not need an entire expansion for them.

- At the moment that is all warlords seems like.

- The addition of garrisons and a story they could have added as a content patch in 5.5 but they decided to make an entire expansion out of a what if scenario that should have seen its climax in a 5 man dungeon, that is all warlords is.

- And as my source tells me the only reason warlords is not out yet is the art work.

- So just like cataclysms ill advised leveling redesign they decided to call "content" and charge us for it as an expansion selling point they are doing the art redesign and calling it "content" and charging us for it as if it were an expansion selling point.

- How about they just update the art work as they go, add it when they add patches, and not try to tell us it is some sort of selling point.

- It is not.

- And now it is holding up the release of the new expansion which now makes it completely worthless.

- I would have rathered be playing warlords right now with old character models, which we should be, than sitting and waiting until possiblely december for some art updates.

- Hey blizzard, just update the art and add it when it is updated, release the content for us now.

- Stop holding back the expansion for art.

- Please.

- A great deal of players don't really care about the art updates anyway and even the ones that do just want to know it is coming and even they would rather be playing new content while waiting than just sitting around waiting.

- It is really not needed to hold up an entire expansion because you want to make blood elves look less gay, gnomes look less spooky, and humans look less blocky.

- But I know why they are waiting on it.

- Like I said, all warlords has going for it is garrisons.

- Not easy to sell an expansion for one thing.

- So they need that art so they can say it has garrisons and art.

- Let me rephrase that, they have garrisons and updated artwork that should have been updated 5 or more years ago at no charge and not as a selling point of an expansion.

- So we will wait, the longest we have ever waited, for an expansion that possibly has less new content that cataclysm did.

- Holy shit I did not even think that was possible.

- So warlords will be garrisons only and cataclysm was... ~crickets~

- Okay, so it will still have more new content than cataclysm did, but it will be close to as bad as cataclysm was.

- Anyone ever notice how powerful the legendary cloak is?

- And I am not talking the in game use of it, I am talking how people look at it.

- It is powerful enough to sway peoples opinions of a player and their abilties.

- Someone asked in trade what would you rather take with you a 520 player with the legendary or a 560 player without it.

- The people almost unanimously agreed that the 520 player would be the better player because they had it.

- The reasoning was a 520 player capable of getting it proved they know how to play their class but the 560 player could have been carried.

- I guess I can somewhat understand that but from my own experience I can not, will not, agree with that line of thought.

- So me, for this example, is better on my rogue at 524 with the cloak who has not stepped into normal except for the occasional boss to try and get daggers where it was really being carried because I suck at playing it but it is better than my druid at 558 without the cloak who has done all of SoO?

- Sure the tank cloak is not as important as the damage dealer one, but the fact still remains, I will take skill as a marker over a cloak any day.

- Just because I got the cloak on my rogue at a low item level does not mean I am good at my rogue, it just means I stuck without it until I figured out how to do it.

- It shows I had dedication and the determination to figure out how to manage to get it done, that is it.

- Even if I am extremely proud of doing it at a low item level on a character I am not good it, it does not validate me as a good player.

- It does not mean I am a good player on it.

- It does not mean I know how to play the class because I was able to do it at a low item level.

- Yet if you listen to people in trade they would take me on my rogue having never done normal for a pug before they would take someone else that has heroic kills without it?

- Wow, people amaze me.

- The power of the cloak goes well beyond what it can do in game.

- It even overpowers people looking at it from the outside.

- People see it and think it means the person is good.

- I did the final quest on a rogue with a 520 item level and two 502 daggers.

- I must be the best rogue ever.

- I have the cloak, that is proof, just ask trade.

- Speaking of cloaks my tanks still do not have one.

- I wanted to do the final quest on each one so I can get a full feel of it.

- Did the ranged one multiple times now, the melee one with my rogue that is the greatest rogue in the world as far as trade is concerned and the healing one but never got around to the tank one.

- I reached critical mass with LFR and my head was about to explode so I had to quit going for it.

- My DK actually had some sigils from doing the early ones.

- My warrior never even stepped into any raid this expansion.

- My paladin never even stepped into any raid this expansion.

- My druid has been sitting at the PvP part for the better half of forever and might stay there for all I know.

- And then there is my monk who was the furthest along.

- Been so long since I played it I do not recall if I was collecting secrets or runestones however.

- Yeah, it has been that long.

- The only reason my monk is so far along is because it is, by far, the one I can DPS best in while in my tank gear.

- I can cat in my druid, but I do not like it.

- I can frost in my tank gear for my DK, but it is not exactly what I could refer to as good.

- And my warrior and paladin can not, under any circumstances, DPS in their tank gear, so they don't have any progress.

- I just can not tank for random people, sorry, not doing it.

- If I had a tanking partner I might do it but not braving those waters solo.

- My monk was moving along so slowly with the quest too.

- I was doing one LFR each week, and it was not even one with a guaranteed drop.

- So it was taking forever.

- I was doing the 3rd ToT and using a coin on the second boss, every single week, to try and get the pet.

- All my alts do their legendary quest line that way.

- Third ToT only.

- My lock did it to catch up on sigils when it started, that one and that one only.

- Now my lock is locked, excuse the pun, at the PvP part like 4 other characters of mine because I can not get wins and gave up.

- It only did all the others once on my lock.

- Funny story with it, one run and one only, through SoO LFR and ended up with the 4 piece set.

- My mage does that one and that one only.

- I have another priest and another hunter that were working their way there, doing that one only.

- So I have killed that boss so many times, used a coin as many of those times as possible, and I still do not have the pet.

- And people wonder why I hate RNG.

- My rogue did almost the entire legendary quest line in that one wing basically, as did many other characters.

- If I added up all my kills on that boss over all my characters for LFR (more if you add normal and heroic but those do not drop the same pet as LFR but I never got that one either) I would not be surprised if I have over 200 kills on it and maybe 150 if not more coins.

- Maybe I should count, I would not be surprised if that number were closer to 100 and it just feels like 200.

- If I had ever got the darn pet even if it were 200, once I have it, it would not feel as if it were that horrible.

- Ever notice that while waiting for something it seems like hell, the hell of 200 kills, but once you get it, that hell is all but forgotten.

- If anything it becomes one of those "that one took me forever to get" and the 200 times to took you to kill it grows each year, to 250, to 300, until wow 8.0 when you will be telling people you killed it 1000 times to get that pet.

- It is human nature, we all do it, we all know we do it, we all keep doing it.

- It is not really lying, it is how the mind works.

- I think it is kind of funny.

- Like when I was trying to get the pet from garnia on the timeless island.

- I kept track of each kill.  Kept my character parked there.  Switched on a timer just to kill it.

- I know that it took 94 times before I got it, or was it 96.

- See, I already forgot.

- And in a year it will be "about 100" and who knows in two years it might be "over 100".

- Amazing how the human mind thinks.

- Just like the human mind thinks my rogue with the legendary and a low item level is proof that I am a great rogue.

- Sometimes people scare me.

- Sometimes warcraft people scare me more.

- Have a great day.


  1. Wow you have a source. That's pretty cool and if that's correct, and I do believe you, then that really sucks. How stupid are blizz? Do they believe that people think so highly of them that they are all white knights and will excuse this appalling gap? Do they not believe that they have to provide value for money anymore? Do they really think that there won't be an effect from this?

    My sub runs out in 19 days. I was counting the days practically but now I no longer care. I may not even login again. I quit the game because I didn't want to support blizz right now, because I'm not continuing to pay for nothing. I quit my guild last night because even though I only had 3 weeks left to go, I could not take another day. Enough is enough. My guild leader was in one of his rages where he acts like a spoiled two year old. I realised that I'd already quit, already given my notice and so why should I continue to put up with it. I was good and didn't call him out on it, I don't do drama and quitting and spewing venom (even if it's deserved) is really bad form. So I said my goodbyes, was very vague and non-specific on reasons, left and that is that.

    I can't believe that crap about the cloak. I mean sure the solo scenarios might have been tough at lower ilevel but not that tough. I got my cloak as soon as I logged in when 5.4 went live. So I only had 520 something from Throne for the final scenario. I one shot it, the tanking one at least was easy. So I would say it was quite common to get the cloak at that ilevel. Now if someone with I don't know 480 had the cloak, then that would be different, even then the tanking one at least was a lot about not standing in stupid, nothing very demanding that I can remember. Though it was what 6 months ago now? So I can't be trusted to the recollection.

    Even so cloaks are a badge of honor in terms of time commitment and dedication to rng stupidity, for all those bloody drops. They aren't an indication of skill, just a time sink but then I've never expected trade to be smart.

    You are a good man, and a responsible one. Logging in, doing what needs to be done. I did that for a while and I couldn't do it, they will have to manage without me. Maybe it would do them good to try and manage without you for a while. It's a hell of a lot of pressure on you and it's kinda unfair. You need to do what's right for you, not always work for other peoples benefit and happiness. I'm not saying you shouldn't, I'm saying it's really good of you but maybe it might be nice to have a break sometimes? I don't know. I'm not sure that made sense.

    Anyway it's nice to see another Monday random thoughts. I still want your "December are they crazy??!!" post. Until then we'll just chat away in your comments on here. Maybe we can say enough interesting stuff to get responses from you again. Somebody said in last weeks that half the fun of the post was your responses in the comments, I agree with them.

    Have a nice week!

  2. wow, GE came, GE posted, but GE did not care - go back to last week and the week before and answer your readers, damn it.


  3. I love and hate the legendary cloak. I love what it does for me and how it used to be viewed as every person who has it is a bonus for the raid.

    We lost 2 players a month ago - AT Garrosh normal because they were mad that our top healer and a dps who had swapped mains a month before [to give them the crit/sp buffs] did not have the cloak.

    Forget that one of them waited till the catch up mechanic came along.

    But yes, suddenly THE reason we weren't knee deep in heroic modes was that two people didn't have the cloak [our problem has always been and will continue to be dps being on the lower end].


    One blew up in raid and one left without a word a few days later after claiming to be staying.

    My fear is garrisons will be that way. I'll have a couple people who won't have garrisons maxed and OMG we're not as far as we could be if ONLY they had it maxed this very second.

  4. - Cross realm announcement was very weird. They said they weren't going to do it and then a couple weeks later, they surprised us and enabled it.

    - I got an invite to raid with my old raid team that is now on a different server, but they're into heroics and I haven't even done flex. It was also rather late on a weeknight, so I declined. Figured I be more of a liability than a help.

    - Got an upgrade off Ordos finally. Only thing left is shoulders and a minor upgrade for the belt. Nothing off Celestials since the new PvP gear came out...

    - Lvled the druid for a few hours as well up to 50 something.

    - Definitely understand your feelings towards WoD. I'm not excited about it either. (Got my fingers and toes crossed that ESO is going to be a lot of fun; otherwise, I'm not sure what I'll end up playing)

    - 520 w/ legendary vs 560 w/o is not enough info for me to make any sort of judgment.

    - Never even got the legendary quest for my mage and DK (my only other 90s). I don't have any desire to play them.

    - Speaking of LFER, I actually need some valor points since I upgraded an item and I've been tempted to do LFR... but I just can't get myself to queue... Watched a couple strat videos for Siegecrafter and Klaxxi since I've never even done those, but couldn't really get into it (thinking about all the trolls and morons that I'll run into). I might try tomorrow night since I need to knock the achiev out still... I certainly don't need the gear (556 iLvL).

    1. WRT this:

      "Cross realm announcement was very weird. They said they weren't going to do it and then a couple weeks later, they surprised us and enabled it."

      Here's the exchange along the lines that they weren't going to do it (which got overridden later):

      That's Zarhym, A CM. I have been saying for a long time, including on this blog, that CMs aren't worth listening to and aren't worth talking with, because they (a) don't know what they are talking about, and (b) don't care. They *really* are nothing more than glorified autoresponders with a couple of messages programmed in. You can see one of these messages in the tweet above, too:

      "But even making a patch to implement such a change would be a big derailment of our dev pipeline."

      I know a thing or two about developing software and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the whole "enabling SOO normal / heroic for cross realm, similarly to flex" is just modifying one or two constants in the code / database. In fact, that's how a reasonably experienced developer would implement this "enabling" thing from the very beginning, even without knowing beforehand that he'd need to enable some additional raid modes which were at first disabled for cross-realm tech. Yet here we have Zarhym who very likely knows very little or nothing at all about development stating authoritatively that yeah, this is a big deal which takes a lot of time to implement.

      Never, ever, ever take CMs seriously. Unless they are delivering a message from someone else, they don't know what they are talking about.

  5. Glad to see you post again Grumpy. You're being nice in helping with the raiding, but if that's enhancing your burnout, take a break. You're not the GM are you? Seems like you're miserable doing that now, so why not give them a heads up that you'll be taking a break for a while?

  6. Hi, new reader here.

    I had always assumed that they would indeed release the new art assets as they were finished, I never imagined they'd hold up an Xpac over it. But then, they were probably encouraged to wait on it by the mothership, wanting to give hearthstone and Diablo a chance to make them some cash.

    That said, I do look forward to WoD for one reason. Draenei are my favorite WoW race, and are also criminally underused. I want to see more of them, more stories about them, and get a feeling for them. Even if I have to put up with ANOTHER orc centric Xpac. My only wish is that we don't get another Dwarven Wedding instead of actual Draenei content.

    1. "But then, they were probably encouraged to wait on it by the mothership, wanting to give hearthstone and Diablo a chance to make them some cash."

      One or two months is more than enough for that. That can't be the reason for the delay. Damn, they didn't even announce the beta yet, we are talking 6+ months here.

    2. Tear the roof off
      We're gonna tear the roof off the mother sucker
      Tear the roof off the sucker
      Tear the roof off
      We're gonna tear the roof off the mother sucker
      Tear the roof off the sucker

      Oww, we want the funk, give up the funk
      Oww, we need the funk, we gotta have that funk
      Oww, we want the funk, give up the funk
      Oww, we need the funk, we gotta have that funk

      Parliament's "Mothership Connection" album, 1975 (no cd's back then) takes me back to 1976, oh yeah, baby! I was walking the Korean DMZ remembering this one.

  7. Good to hear from you, Grumpy.

    The notion that a 520 player with the legendary is better than a 560 player without it, because there's a guarantee that the first player did the solo portions of the legendary questline by himself, is pretty entertaining. I have no doubt that this is mostly said in jest, in that noone who is saying this would actually prefer a 520 guy with the legendary to a 560 guy without the legendary. It's not that I don't see how some could try to kick or abuse a 560 guy without the legendary, because that guy is "obviously" lazy and holding the raid back (sarcasm), I have no doubts that situations like this - however idiotic - can happen, I just think that whoever tries to kick a 560 guy without the legendary will absolutely not accept a 520 guy or even a 540 guy, legendary or not. :-)

    (Also, eagerly awaiting your post on the December date, like Taitrina.)

  8. (@GE - Your site was a lot easier to skim back in the early days when you had a cut... just sayin'... :) )

    It's interesting... all of the angst about the delay until WoD had me wondering if blogs were of a similar attitude back in the Wrath late expansion period... so I went back to the beginning of this blog to see when it started.

    Mar, 2010... basically 4 years ago and a very similar point in Wrath that we're in now. Perfect!

    People not showing up for raids, guild issues, etc? Yep, same ol' stuff, unfortunately, not that I figured any of that was new or unique, that always happens in the late expansion period.

    What I wasn't seeing during my search was any actual angst. Much complaining about things, sure (because Grumpy Elf), but no angst... no "when's Cataclysm coming out?" No "What the f is Blizz smoking at they think this is acceptable, for us to be spending 6/9 months raiding the same place with no end in sight?"

    Nothing. Just posts about everyday things.

    I'm up to June now... nothing.

    Through July...

    Still no angst.

    Another guild swap in Aug... still no angst about Cataclysm or the between-expansion lull.

    Ah! Finally a post that discusses possible Cat timeframes... not with any negative connotation, just matter-of-fact info being presented.

    This year, while there haven't been any specific complaint posts (mostly just comments in the Monday ramblings), it was late Feb/early Mar that there was a real shift in attitude, culminating with the Fall '14 release estimate.

    What's changed from late Wrath to late MoP? Serious question... my personal opinion hasn't really changed between the two, if anything I'm staying engaged longer in WoD than I did in Wrath... but there's something happening that's made things turn toward a negative. What is it?

    1. I don't know if you are interested in POV of anyone but Grumpy, but for me the long wait at the end of WOTLK is radically different from the long wait at the end of MOP because:

      1. The long wait at the end of WOTLK was the first such long wait that I met in the game, the long wait at the end of MOP is the third one. During the first two waits quite a lot of people expressed that long waits are super bad and not fun and a big issue, and begged Blizzard to do something about them, and Blizzard even agreed and said they will do their best, etc... except that changed nothing and we have the long wait for the third time. In a row. A third long wait in a row is much more frustrating than the first long wait, you kinda lose hope.

      2. During the long wait at the end of WOTLK I was looking forward to Cata, I was looking forward to the rework of the old world (yes, it turned out not what I expected it to be, was much worse, they could do it much better, long story), I was looking forward to the development of lore past Arthas (same here, turned out much worse, they could do much better which I was expecting), etc. With WOD, there's nothing to look up to, I am not big on garrisons and they are the only thing that is reasonably new, I am not big on incremental improvements to existing things - they are welcome, but they are nothing exciting, partly because many of these changes are a combination of good and bad, and many have been tried in some way before (a revamp of raid formats, for example, it's hard to be excited about a revamp like that when it is the fourth or fifth such revamp, the lore is in the trash can, etc.

      3. During the long wait at the end of WOTLK there was much less focus on "money, money, more money, and please pay extra". The shop was smaller, there was no paid-for character boost, the price of WOTLK stayed at the same level as TBC instead of being raised as it is with MOP. There was no talk about more microtransactions. Right now, during the long wait at the end of MOP, you can expect that they will try to monetize the game in WOD more. In that they will keep your sub and they will take your money for the expansion, but they will try to eek more. There was no such expectation during the long wait at the end of WOTLK for me.

      That's basically it.

    2. By the way, I went to read MMO-C and here's something that signifies the current wait for WOD for me:

      Remember that we are getting the new models, which is a big deal (tm)? (I agree they are a big deal to some, mind you. But it's also true that they aren't a big deal at all to many others.)

      For anyone reading sites like MMO-C or WoW Insider, the following exchanges would seem familiar:

      * Hey, why don't we get a new race or class in WoD? We used to get one or the other every expansion, it was so good!
      * Stop with the whining, we are getting new character models, that's 10 NEW RACES, you idiot.

      or this:

      * Hey, how come we only get garrisons in WOD and nothing else new?
      * Shut up already, we are getting NEW CHARACTER MODELS, that's like a whole new game, I am sick of your whining...


      Well, here's the latest on character models, from MMO-C:

      "There is no guarantee that all character models will be done by release, but they hope to have most ready."

      Yes, we get no new races. Yes, we get very little new features, so few that they have to put new character models as an item in the main bullet list of features for the expansion. Yes, we have to endure the long wait. WOD is not taking less time to develop than MOP, it actually might take more time. And with all that, we learn now that this glorious feature - new character models - is not going to be complete.

      That's a good example of what's wrong with WoW and Blizzard these days. A fail upon a fail on top of a fail, getting even more fail every passing month.

    3. Any opinions are welcome, just addressed it to GE since the Wrath-era lack of angst was his and was documented... the rest of us are working off (likely misremembered) memories and assumptions. The nice thing about blogs is that they're legitimate snapshots in time that can't be viewed through coloured glasses, rose or no.

      Just looking at a few other random sites that were around back then... many of the big blogs I read back in the day are gone (RIP BRK, PPI, Righteous Orbs, etc) but I'll find a few.

      BBB: Checked both Mar and Aug '10 timeframes, no angst to be found.

      Huntsman's Lodge: Checked Mar and Aug '10, no angst.

      Pugnacious Priest: Checked Mar and Aug '10, no angst.

      Blessing of Kings: Checked Mar and Aug '10, no angst. In fact, they were recruiting for a H LK kill!

      Kurn's Corner: Mar and Aug, no angst, etc.

      (KC is especially useful... a March Q&A that didn't mention Cataclysm at ALL, plus a "We killed everything in ICC so we went back to ToC" that also didn't mention Cataclysm at all)

      What's especially interesting as I'm reading/skimming the posts is that there isn't just a lack of angst, there's almost no discussion of Cataclysm at all aside from a few "incoming changes" discussion posts... the posts are almost all about current activities or general topics (gold selling, for example) that don't have an associated timeframe.

      Also, not a single March timeframe post mentioning the beta that I saw in any regard. Not that it's coming. Not that it hasn't come. Not that it's time for it to come. Not about when it might or should come. NOT ONE.

      So, opening it up... here's a useful list of blogs (female bloggers specifically, which shouldn't matter) that were around back then.

      Every single blog I checked was entirely angst-free... 100%. So, a challenge... find me a blog post from that list that isn't. JUST ONE. Something that has a similar tone to what we're repeatedly seeing these days. And let me know how many it took to find that one.

    4. So, addressing your specific points in order:

      1) Far as I can conclude from my blog research, nobody was yelling that in Wrath. Not one person. Try to keep personal flawed memories or assumptions out of this.

      2) Nobody seemed to actually be looking forward to Cataclysm at all, the posts were all shockingly in the current day... what they were doing at that time. There was some talk of how Cataclysm would have an impact on their gameplay (things like shared lockouts, etc) but none about how they were looking forward to Cataclysm to fix anything in their current experience. Seriously. Not one.

      3) True, but I don't think the store actually existed at that time so it couldn't have been a topic of discussion. Me, I'm spending exactly $0 more on WoW than I did back in Wrath... I believe my sub is still the same $12.99 (6 month renewing) that it was then. Inflation is an actual thing, stuff costs more money now than it did back then in general... until WoD, that wasn't the case with WoW. Compare the price of milk today vs what it was then. Gas. HOUSES. Blizzard keeps adding more content to the game over time but you're arguing that they aren't allowed to make any more on it which means that, in terms of value, you're wanting to pay less today than in Wrath. How does that make sense?

      4) New models... I don't consider that value, frankly, so you won't get any argument from me on that one. Lots of people do and they're entitled to that opinion but to me it isn't value. Garrisons? Value. New zones (they are new zones)? Value. New raids/dungeons? Value. I'm going to include the full list here but there's a lot of new stuff coming that has actual value, even to someone like me who's only interested in PvE, solo activities and making gold. I don't pet battle, I don't PvP, I don't tmog, I don't buy store items, I won't boost... yet I still see tons of value.

      But that aside, none of that has any impact on my enjoyment of the game TODAY. The one thing all those bloggers were doing, whether in Mar or Aug, was playing Wrath! Why the heck have so many people seemingly lost the ability to just play the game?

      I don't think we've gotten to that answer yet...

      Reading your last post, I think it's an entitlement issue... blue responses in forums. Twitter. GIMME GIMME GIMME. Don't appreciate what you have, instead spend all energy on complaining about what we DON'T, both positively or negatively (good stuff we don't have yet and bad stuff we'll be getting).

      Is this a new social paradigm thing in action? Kids of today, get off my lawn, etc? Problem is, all the blogs I mentioned were established blogs at the time, they haven't gotten any younger since then (or if they have, they aren't sharing how).

      Was it because we were all new(ish) then and old(ish) now? What are the new bloggers saying these days? I'd bet you more than a little bit that they're on the complaint bandwagon as well. Why??

      I saw an article recently on entitlement and how, no matter how much Blizzard gives us, we always seem to want more than we're getting while complaining about having too much to do. I'll try to remember to track that down... it won't answer the question but it'll help establish the boundaries.

    5. "So, a challenge... find me a blog post from that list that isn't. JUST ONE."

      You didn't understand my point. I said that for me the long wait prior to WOTLK was radically different than the long wait prior to MOP. I tried to explain why. Your 1-2-3 responses to my explanation are a bit strange, to be honest. I don't know why you felt like you had to respond to the explanation in that way. I mean, you asked "hey, guys, what do you think changed from WOTLK to MOP", and noted that this is a "serious question", no less. I thought about your question and summarized my thoughts, explaining how it looks for me. Now, you ...what? you want to tell me that my perception is wrong and flawed? It's a weird way to ask for others' opinion, that's for sure.

      You want to talk about the entitlement, bla bla bla bla, fine, go ahead. I will know better than respond to your posts in the future.

    6. "long wait prior" -> "long wait at the end"

    7. I will say one more thing.


      "Why the heck have so many people seemingly lost the ability to just play the game?"

      is an idiotic question.

      Maybe, when millions of people express their dissatisfaction with a game and vote with their feet, there's something wrong with that game. Just maybe.

      Maybe - OMG, it's so scary - maybe it's the authors of the game that are responsible.

    8. Dammit, R, re-read your post and you are even making an argument on inflation.

      You know that inflation is just one mechanism that affects prices over time? There are other factors, like, well, technological progress, for example. You know those cellphone games that solo devs stamp by the week (heck, there are contests where you have to write a game in something like 6-8 hours, competing with others)? Can you guess how long it'd take to develop a similar game back when WoW was starting? We are talking about a productivity gain of 10x-100x.

      There are multiple factors working in opposite
      directions, and so some products and services cost more with time and other products and services cost less. Now, check what sector WoW is in. It's software. Any talks about effects of inflation in software are moot. Or rather, if it is inflation that drives your costs in software, you have failed at it, because you failed to tap numerous other factors that are far more powerful than inflation and counter it. Serious.

    9. Um. The whole premise of that original question was that I was talking about blogs.

      "It's interesting... all of the angst about the delay until WoD had me wondering if blogs were of a similar attitude back in the Wrath late expansion period... so I went back to the beginning of this blog to see when it started."

      I understand that you don't have a blog (that I'm aware of) but was willing to consider your responses so I responded to your points accordingly. Your point #1 claimed that "During the first two waits quite a lot of people expressed that long waits are super bad and not fun and a big issue, and begged Blizzard to do something about them."

      I responded: "Prove it."

      Your #2 point I read as speaking for the same group of people as you did in #1, if you were just mentioning yourself personally then that's fine but based on my blog research you seem to be in the significant minority there.

      And yeah, I'm absolutely saying that your memory about what you felt 4 years ago is wrong. Memory is HORRIBLY inaccurate, especially over time. That's why I specifically looked at blogs, which are SIGNIFICANTLY more accurate in terms of how things actually were back then.

      You may think you remember, you probably believe that you remember, but you don't... what you think you remember has been tainted by everything that's happened since.

      (as has mine, that's why I'm focusing very little on my own memories from back then except to say that, best I can recall, my opinion was pretty much the same as it is today... I spent my time deciding what to do, same as today, not worrying about Cataclysm's release)

      Actually, your response to that "why can't people just play?" is what makes it a valid question. People are still playing, few are leaving (I think the last number we saw they INCREASED subscriptions), but they aren't JUST playing... they're playing and complaining. Or not playing and still complaining, as the case may be.

      Yeah, inflation, it's a thing in every industry, including video games.

      So, yeah. I'm fine leaving it there, we're still speaking different languages here.

    10. Speaking for myself, what makes this wait different than the Wrath one is that Wrath was much better for alts. In Wrath I could level an alt, run through the dungeons for badges and gear (level of previous patch), and within a week or two was done and could move on to the next one or try some raids. MOP, on the other hand, has a very quick Timeless Isle gear bonanza followed by weeks and weeks of merciless grinding. Either you are grinding Siege for random drops or grinding timeless coins for burdens. It's just awful, and the no 5man philosophy has proven to be a failure so total that Blizzard is reversing course. The end result is that I have my main with LFR siege gear and a stable of alts just sitting at around ilevel 480-490 after their initial TI binge. There's just no motivation to endure an hour long queue and hour long run to get gold, and then have to wait a week to do it again.

      Aside from that, I bet the one statement Blizzard would like to take back now is the whole "we are farther along in WoD than we were in MoP" at Blizzcon. I don't think the holdup is just models...they've also been totally changing the stats from what they proposed at Blizzcon, but in any case they failed to manage that expectation.

      All that said I'm not really raging or anything. I'm just not playing, which is not much better for Blizzard. BUT...I am still subscribed, so there is that.

    11. As another person who was regularly blogging about WoW at the time, the wait for Cataclysm wasn't as big of a deal because there was a perception that there was still lots of stuff to do. WOTLK was the expansion that introduced the achievement system, so after finishing all the current content, people went back and re-did old stuff for the achievement. (I spent about a month getting Loremaster myself back then.) Nowadays there seems to be more of a perception that there's nothing to do - you tell me why.

      Also, people didn't care about the Cataclysm beta as much because at that point, betas weren't open to everyone, so you read the news about them but didn't necessarily play yourself. MoP set the precedent of using beta access for all subscribers/pre-orders (or whatever it was) as a sort of "content patch", giving everyone something else to do, which is why people are now impatient to get into the WoD beta.

    12. On a personal level I was also struggling to be excited for Cata since I predicted that the changes coming to 10/25 raiding at the time would kill my guild - and they did, so watching my guild in its death throes it was hard to go: "Woo, gimme that expansion!" :P

    13. R, I didn't really get from your first post with the "what has changed" question that all you are caring about is blogs. I thought you were asking question to everyone, blog or not. Apparently this isn't the case, so, fine, if I had understood that from the beginning, I wouldn't have answered.

      That said:

      "Your point #1 claimed that "During the first two waits quite a lot of people expressed that long waits are super bad and not fun and a big issue, and begged Blizzard to do something about them." I responded: "Prove it.""

      I really don't have to prove anything, but since it was so easy, I fired a couple of Google searches and here're some results that discuss how Dragon Soul is taking way too long and how there's nothing to do:

      I went to look up the same for Icecrown Citadel and it has proven more difficult because search results for ICC are contaminated much more compared to DS. Also, quite a number of blogs of that time appear to no longer be around. I went to Pink Pigtail Inn, for example, because I remember that Larisa had a topic on exactly the subject of everyone having nothing to do with how long the content gap after ICC was, and she was asking bloggers who were under that vibe to please not feel negative and maybe quit playing for a while. Apparently, Pink Pigtail Inn is no more, and you can't even get to old posts. Still, there's a mention of that article of Larisa on other blogs, for example:

      So, yeah, people being bored to tears with ICC and being bitter about that was a real thing. Including in blogs.

      I hope this is of some help to you.

      People do notice gaps in content and they do dislike them a lot. They did notice the gap after ICC and they complained. They did notice the gap after DS and they complained more, in part because that was the second gap, not the first. Now we have the third gap. Guess what, people complain about gaps in content again, and they complain more now than they did the first two times, again, in large part because this is the third gap already - Blizzard don't seem to be learning / capable of fixing the issue.

      It's not rocket science.

    14. The PPI is still accessible actually, it's just that the old domain name (which is what most people linked to) is gone. You can still manually check it out under :)

    15. Thanks a lot, Shintar! Some of the reads on that blog stir quite the memories...

      R, just in case, the post I was talking about above is here:

      There's more, of course, like this one, for example:

  9. Also, @GE...

    How was the NY/NJ Superbowl in person? I don't recall a post on the topic... :)

  10. There's a rumor on MMO-C that the actual reason for the delay is that when Street (Ghostcrawler) went to Riot, 15 other key developers went with him, mostly people from his systems team. Look at posts by a guy named Smudge.