This is not so much one of my normal posts but more so a comment and complaint on this one line I saw in a post about the new Ashran PvP area that will be in warlords. I would love to comment more on Ashran as a whole but being I am not in beta and I can not say anything from experience and only have what I can see and read to go by I really can not pass judgement. So instead I will just make this post about that one little line.
I hang on that line in the title because everything else, in the forum of words at least, sounds fine even if not perfect. That line however, that changes everything for me. I always liked the PvP areas. I like Tol Barad, I liked Wintergrasp, I missed not having spot like that in mists. So even as someone that very rarely PvPs I was actually looking forward to at least trying Ashran.
For as much as I don't like PvP sometimes I can say that I really do love a good world PvP skirmish, it is just that they happen so rarely and I think that is why I always loved them. With all the things they are announcing for Ashran it made it seem as if they were creating a place where they were encouraging world PvP and I can really get behind an idea like that and support it. Until I read that line.
"You can loot other players currency"
Fuck no!
Sorry blizzard, just lost me there. I was looking forward to Ashran, was even thinking it might make as a great way to pass some time and get into PvP for the non PvPers of the game because it would be a place we can walk into or out of as we see fit and go into with any size group unlike non rated battle grounds which limit you to a group of five.
It was a great idea but the second you tell me that someone can steal my currency you lost me. I will never step foot on Ashran soil and I even more so now than before completely oppose the new capitals being anywhere near this horrible idea of a world PvP area. I want to be as far away from it as possible. So far away from it that I can not accidentally walk into it because you might think that me entering it means I support it, and I do not. Move the capitals back to where they were originally intended to be, get us the hell out of that place.
Now I do not know what currency this is talking about. It could be some sort of Ashran only currency, it could be honor currency, it could be your very own gold currency. I really do not know. I really do not care. If I earned something through whatever means be it some sort of Ashran currency, honor points, or gold, it is mine and I am not going to participate in a zone where it can be stolen from me.
Simply said blizzard, when it comes to others being able to steal anything from me, my response will be fuck no.
Now don't you dare even think about adding this sort of complete bullshit to garrisons and let other people attack mine, disrupt my productions, or steal from me there too. If you do that, and being garrisons are the only new content next expansion, you lost a customer. That is not a threat, it is a promise.
The next expansion if chuck full of bad ideas, horrible ideas and then worse ideas, this is really one of the worse ideas. Do not add this crap to the game. Give them something for killing us, but do not let them steal from us. Big difference blizzard and you have been doing this long enough you should know better than to even consider adding this sort of stuff.
So to end this post I need to repeat this again, and you rarely if ever see me use the word, so it should show how I feel about it.
"You can loot other players currency"
Fuck no!
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I can't see them implementing a system where beating somebody in PvP means you can take their stuff (loot or whatever currency this may be).
ReplyDeleteOne of the major aims of Ashran is to allow people to join in some casual PvP, and hopefully encourage new people to try it.
This system would be at cross purposes to that ideal - Only the top players, those that were confident of being able to kill more often than be killed, would be happy to risk their 'currency'.
People new to PvP, or people like me who enjoy it but are hopeless at it, would just stay away. It's discouraging enough to die constantly in PvP without having to pay your killers for the privilege.
For that reason, I think it will be more like the insignia model rather than 'stealing' somebody's hard-earned currency.
"Give them something for killing us, but do not let them steal from us"
This... 100%
I actually think it will be a currency similar to the ones used in 5.1 which will only be useful on Ashran.
I have been really looking forward to Ashran... let's hope they don't ruin it with one small mistake.
If the stronger players (read people that are good at PvP) will be able to feast on the weaker players (the casual PvPer that might not be good) by stealing their stuff it would really defeat every single purpose of trying to make a place where you can go to casually PvP once in a while. At least in my opinion.
DeleteIf it is just something like an insignia then it could be something that is okay. But if it is anything otherwise, such are things with real in game value that are earned outside of Ashran, then it will be a huge mistake and I will stay away, that is for sure.
I would like to see him expand on what he meant by taking other peoples currency. I wonder sometimes if the people at blizzard think before they speak. You can not say something like that in passing and then not explain what you mean by it.
Hey Grump, I believe from previous reading that the currency is Ashran only currency that is used for the side objectives, so similar to all the AV scraps one can loot. If that's the case, I don't think it would be that bad, and actually give dying a slight (but not too punitive) penalty; however, if it's a currency that can be used for concrete rewards, especially gear, then that would feel far too punitive.
ReplyDeleteAs long as they do not extend that to garrisons where they can steal our supplies while we are offline, then I can deal with it.
DeleteThat is what I am worried about, it might be some sort of currency that is for something non objective related. If it is just some objective, then it is just part of the PvP battle.
I agree. there is another pvp area up in the northern area (aera name escapes me at the moment - but even if you fly over it, BOOM, pvp marked you are. Much less one of the fishing dailies is in there. All piss poor ideas.
ReplyDeleteNorthend or northrend... anyway that area that is home of the freaking litch king.
DeleteThat is wintergrasp. Yeap, even if you fly over it you get flagged. I accidentally flagged myself more than a few times when I was not in the mood to fight.
DeletePro tip. If you ever want to lose your flag fast, jump on a quick flight path, it removes the PvP flag when you land.
thats it. mind is more foggy these days. like when those dead sea reavers come ashore killing the wally walrus folks.
Delete-roo
My mind is always like that. :P
DeleteI know there is way to see how long one has been playing a toon. But I forgot it. DO you remember GE and if so, can you explain it to me (again, I think)? Thanks.
ReplyDeleteThe "/played" command will tell you how long that character has been played.
DeleteAs dimli said, /played.
DeleteIt will tell you how long you have played that character only, not your account total. And in actual hours of how long you were logged on.
ok, thanks you two! I will check to see how long bigwasp the locky has been plying tonight.
Deletemade 63 yesterday - no lfg, lfr, no instances, just quests. :) so far she has made over 2K gold by herself and only 1 profession - skinning. thats what I am doing these days.
Need to see how long I have played her.
That is how I usually level, questing only. I do not do any random content with random groups. It only slows you down, or at least me. I have got the leveling grind down to a science when it comes to wow.
Delete2 days, 9 hours, 2 minutes, 24 seconds. I guess that is not bad. Though to be honest, I have on enough equipment to grant 45% experience and "Trollbane" for another 10% (in Hellfire Peninsula). So, 63 is not bad, I am guessing.
DeleteNot bad at all. You are a bit behind my normal progress, but I am a freak when it comes to leveling. At the rate you are going you will most likely hit 90 in 5 days played, maybe 6. Which is not bad at all for taking it as it comes.
Deletemost of the time it is maybe an hour a day, but not every day - sometimes I can't get on to a computer for a few days because of medical. I do tend to go to zones where the mobs are orange or red to me, though - for crying out loud I'm a Gnome locky - all fear where I tread!
DeleteMu-hahahahahaha
-roo {aka Bigwasp the Lock}
More like they fear you. A gnome caster is the devil in disguise.
DeleteNo. This would incite a PVP mafia on every server. How stupid. I'm ok with insignia's provided they reward something pvp related with no stat boost, maybe cosmetic something or other, otherwise I'll never set foot in the area. Why would they even say crap like that?
ReplyDeleteIt very well might be an insignia only sort of thing but in standard blizzard style they did not expand on what they meant, just said that one line is passing.
DeleteIf it is anything from outside of the zone I think it will be horrible for the game. If it is a zone only currency like insignia or something then it is just part of the PvP. I sure hope that is what he meant and just had one of those "stupid comment" moments.
I am near certain it is for that currency only. I do however seriously object to the way it was mentioned as a throw away matter of fact comment and left for people to have no idea what they were talking about.
DeleteBlizzard employees need to be a hell of a lot smarter than to say things like that and not elaborate on it.
I am more upset with the fact of how they said it then I am about what they said. As I mentioned, I am pretty darn sure it is for Ashran only currency, but as they said it, that leaves it up to interpretation and that is wrong of them.
Personally, the only thing in game I call currency is gold. While other things might "be" currency for something, gold is the only actual currency. So taking them at the way they said it it means that they said people can steal gold from you.
How you say things matter. Blizzard really needs to learn that.
how about this - what is this 'aspect of the fox" crap I am reading about? Allows a group or party to cast spells for 6 seconds while moving????
ReplyDeleteOf what use is that to a hunter for we don't use spells.
Roo "the curmudgeon"
Beneficial to the casters in the hunters group during a fight that requires a lot of moving around. I can see the plus side , just not for the hunter so much.
DeleteIf there is nothing for the hunter in this aspect (the aspect has to be on, called out to make sure casters aren't using something like this at the same time) while giving up aspects that make their attacks more powerful, I would have to say "nay, it ain't worth it" and adds to the feeling as GE said so many times - Blizzard treats the hunter class as a red headed step child.
Delete-roo the red headed step child
But then, we all have opinions, don't we. :)
It is basically for raiding. While it might not be useful in a 10 man make up for some teams in a 25 man if you have say 10 casters the hunter losing a small percentage of his DPS so those 10 people can keep doing max DPS would be a raid wise increase.
DeleteI would say over all it is not a very good utility because now the hunter does less while allowing the others to do some more for 6 seconds because the hunter has to leave hawk.
Now, if the hunter maintained his hawk buff while in fox and gave everyone the ability to cast while moving it would defiantly be better. Or if they increased it to 12 seconds it might be better. But as long as the hunter is losing DPS to help the casters you would need to have a fair amount of casters to ever even consider using it.
If anything I see it being used more as a healing cooldown so the healers can cast on the move than I can see it being a DPS cooldown.
Aspect of the Hawk is being removed in Warlords
DeleteI did not see that in the notes. Must have missed it.
DeleteWonder what they will do to balance hunters now every tier because we scale so horrible with gear. Hawk was how they scaled us every expansion. Just add a dew more percent and we were good.
IIRC they are making Hawk a passive that is always on. The replacement aspect is just Iron Hawk that gives us a 10% damage reduction while its equipped. So activating Fox wont be that big a deal, we lose a little bit of DR for the duration but thats it. If it allows healers to keep doing their thing during a dance phase of a boss fight, it will be a net gain.
Deletein that case, I can see it then. Besides it doesn't matter much what I think anyway, Blizzard the all powerful knows better!
DeleteThanks Trunkmonkey and GE!
That makes it much better than as is. As I said, I see it as something that would be better used as a healing cooldown for movement than a DPS one. You can easily get by for 6 seconds with a couple of casters being stuck with instants but sometimes 6 seconds without healing if healer are forced to move means death.
Delete@Roo
DeleteBeing you are not really a raider and just do your own thing it is basically useless for you. There would never be a reason to use it for solo play.
Well, if it really allows you to mount up in combat like some players have hypothesized, then that will be very useful soloing. Especially with no flying. However, if it works that way at launch, then expect tears from the hunter-support classes who aren't as cool as us, and a likely removal of that aspect of the utility.
DeleteI doubt that will happen. Really doubt it. It would be OP in PvP and I doubt blizzard would let that through. But hey, you never know, they already surprised me once today. ;)
DeleteIt would be cool to get away from mobs and for soloing like you said, but yeah, the tears, blizzard always caves when people cry about hunters. It is why we can't have any cool toys any more.
That's true, I didn't think about the pvp aspect of it. Hunters would become nearly mandatory on certain maps for RBG. If there is a scrum in the center and suddenly one team can mount up and ride away to an objective and the other team doesn't have a hunter and has to hoof it. Crazy unfair. Not that I would be complaining.
DeleteWell, it is one of those things that it is great when you do it but sucks like hell when the other person does.
DeleteAs I like to say, if it is something you do not want your enemy doing, it is probably too powerful.
bitch bitch bitch. HA! I may not raid now, but I have you know I do have titles from when I did. :-Þ
DeleteLOL, I am glad "trout"monkey didn't yell at me for mistyping his name. Sorry about that.
And if it does allow one to mount up and get out range, then yes, it would be useful to me as a solo player.
-roo the tired
I don't think that mounting while using it in combat will make it live.
DeleteIt's an Ashran-only currency, not gold, not WoD's analog of warforged seals, etc. Don't worry, it's not much.
ReplyDeleteStill, I am not sure it's a good idea, because for people who care about this currency this will probably make PVP too serious business. If suddenly I stand to lose a lot, I will absolutely not PVP like I would normally, I will try to survive much harder. If you are out to kill me, I won't just make it difficult for you (that's fine and expected), I will make it much less fun for you as well (that's not expected, and, dare I say, will kill this - I will evade / CC / outheal / trap / everything else, it won't be at all like normal PVP, and, chances are, you won't like it, not to mention that I won't like it either).
Maybe I am wrong and Blizzard are right, but I don't think this is a good idea.
I saw what happens in games with full loot - it's not fun at all. You have epics, but you aren't wearing them, you are wearing trash that you can replace easily by crafting or visiting a vendor, because if you wear epics, someone will kill you and take them. The kicker is, after that someone kills you and takes your epics, he isn't going to wear them either, he is going to continue to wear trash and your epics go straight into the chest (LOL). It's weird.
I send you up to a previous comment.
Deletehttp://thegrumpyelf.blogspot.com/2014/07/you-can-loot-other-players-currency.html?showComment=1406302288553#c4071361402852938497
Better than typing it all over again.
I agree, it might still be a very bad idea and you are the PvPer so you would know more than I would and would be in a much better place to comment on how this would work in PvP than I am.
I still think the idea of stealing from your fellow player, even if they are on the opposite side, is a bad idea.
Reward the winner, even give the loser nothing for their attempt, but to let one steal from the other, as you said, will make people take it way too seriously. And from what I gather, I thought Ashran was supposed to be to get the casual PvPer out there. Making it all this serious will not help in that endeavor.
I didn't want to read all forty comments, so I'm not sure if someone has answered this for you already. Just in case:
ReplyDeleteThe currency are called Artifact Fragments. They are used to help "win" the map, and for little toys/items that are only usable in ashran. However, you don't just collect tons of them and save them up. You can turn them in to various npcs in areas your faction controls.
Also, it's waaaaay easier to just loot them from random npcs in the game than from players (though perhaps that's just because the pvpers who are in the beta right now are tougher than your average pvpers).
Some of the items you can get with Artifact fragments include:
Proximity Alarm-o-bot - 20 - works like a hunter's flare, but a little better/longer
LeBlanc's Piccolo - 20 - makes opponents unhealable, but also undamagable for 8 seconds
Preserved Discombobulator - 1 - Dismounts your opponent
Phantom Potion - 1 - 25 sec invisibility plus speed boost.
Pocket Flying Machine - 1 - summons a little machine that will take your artifacts back to the base for you (so they can't be stolen if you die).
And finally:
Flimsy X-ray Goggles - 40 - Lets you see if enemy players are carrying artifact fragments.
These really aren't things that will make or break the game. They're a little more exciting than the 5.1 items in MoP, but won't make someone super OP. And, as I've now lost plenty of these from PvPing, I can say fairly confidently that it didn't upset me at all. They're pretty easy to get if you sneak to an area where the pvping isn't happening, and then kill all the npcs (none of which are hard to kill as a hunter).
I haven't even tried teaming up in ashran yet, I've just been going solo, and I suppose I've only played there for a couple hours, but it's been impressively fun. I imagine it's better right now because everyone in the beta has the exact same gear levels, but still, I can't believe how much fun I'm having. I can't wait until live when I can bring my whole RBG team in.
I'm not sure how it will be for "beginner" pvp. I imagine in live it won't be the best idea to just jump in solo if you don't know what your doing. However, as an average (at best) pvper, i'm having a lot of fun.
That does make it better. A few people in the comments, and myself, all speculated that is what they meant and it was just another case of horrible blizzard decisions on how they mention things. They have been suffering from major foot in mouth syndrome a lot lately.
DeleteI still think it is a fairly poor idea to allow players to steal from each other. It will only lead to bad feelings. Even more so for the poor PvPers or beginners. Giving someone something for a kill is fine, giving them the persons stuff is not. Warcraft is not that type of game. Never has been and never should become that type of game.
Anything for the solo player when it comes to group PvP will also work out worse. A group gives you power and does make PvP much more fun. I think you are enjoying it because you probably are experiencing it as it should be. People of fairly comparable skill and exactly the same gear. But once it goes live and you can walk in with less gear against much better geared players it will lose any feel of fun you get from it instantly. Trust me. It is not you, it is human nature. Blizzard needs to understand that if they ever want any sort of open world PvP like this to work and to grab the attention of new players to PvP or casual PvPers they need to balance what they can, gear, so that is one less advantage the skilled have over them.
One more update, I don't know if this is by chance, or how it's intended, but I think you can only loot one of these from an enemy player, regardless of how many they have on them. At least, I've only gotten one from any enemy players. Could be they all only had one, but I'd doubt it.
DeleteIt still will leave bad feelings for people trying to collect the currency. Especially if they ever let you buy more valuable things with the currency. But, it's a little assurance to know they can only take one, and since you rez at graveyards like in BGs, you can pretty much always make it back to your base to deposit them.
And yeah, the more I play in there, the more worried I'm getting for when the game goes live. I don't know a ton about the theory behind making games fun, but this will be really brutal for someone who's undergeared. It seems to me, that with competitive PvP, you're not really getting more powerful as you get more gear, since everyone (except for with the stupid celestials pvp gear) gets gear at the exact same rate. So relative to your opponent you should always be the same, assuming you're playing against "PVPers". So why not just make everyone the same ilvl in ashran? I wouldn't think the serious PvPers would mind, since they'll be good enough to have an advantage regardless. I mean, I do think some idiots on the forums would complain, but that'll happen regardless, so who cares... Balancing ilvls when you enter ashran sounds great to me.
Oh also, I saw somewhere a Dev was saying that while the PvP battles would be going on in the middle, on the Road of Glory, that less serious PvPers would still have things to do there, because there are all these other things to do around the outside of the island. I'm 100% sure that these areas will be camped out by jerks waiting to gank under geared players.
DeleteIt's already happening in the Beta. It's not too bad there, because, as previously stated, everyone has the exact same gear. But once we get to live, especially on PvE servers, there's going to be some jackass who's not good enough at PvP to go into the middle and win, so will instead sit around the edges and take out unsuspecting, undergeared players.
I am thinking being there are items you can buy to effectively protect your currency that it will end up that more than one can be looted. People would not go out of their way to protect their 10,000 if the person could only takes 1.
DeleteI think making everyone "even" in Ashran would be a nice touch. The real PvPers would still have the advantage of being good at what they do whereas I would not. However, if I were even with them in terms of gear at least, it gives me a benchmark to see if I am getting better because I will know it is not a case of "he only destroyed me like that because I have no PvP gear".
Those areas will be stalked by people looking for easy kills. Which means basally every PvPer that ever PvPed. Why do you think heavy horde servers and heavy alliance servers go that way? Because people want to be on the winning side, people like to win. Same will hold true here Fight with the other PvPers or go to the outskirts and kill the PvEers. Which do you think most PvPers will choose?
Ashran will not be a fun place for a lesser skilled, lesser geared player and it will be absolutely no place for a casual PvPer or someone that just want to learn. It will be a nightmare.