The new looking for raid part is out and last night I decided to get it in before my guild would run their version with as many members from the guild as wanted to go. Guild runs are usually better because you are going with a group of people that are communicating. Even if we are not the greatest raiders the fact we all at least go into it knowing the fights and what to expect and have the ability to communicate with each other even if we run into some problems we can usually get through anything the LFR throws at us.
Without my guild it is a different story. It is a nightmare. And the nightmare keeps getting worse with each new release of a raid in the LFR. All I want to do is wake up and find out that this was all a dream, a very bad dream, but that is not going to happen. The looking for raid is now officially progression raiding for randoms.
I have to say I am done. I quit. I just can not do it any more. I have no desire to do progression raiding with 24 people I have never met and will most likely never meet again. I have no desire to do progression raiding in a group with 5 people that all think they are the leader and have different ways to go about the fight. I have no desire to do progression raiding with random people that all think they are better than everyone else even if they are the first one to have died to an easily avoidable mechanic. I have no desire to do progression raiding with people calling each other names and insulting each other instead of doing what they were there for, you know, killing things.
I have no desire to do progression raiding with no communication. I have no desire to do progression raiding with damage dealers who think DPS is more important than doing the right thing. I have no desire to do progression raiding with healers that think doing an AoE heal to increase their HPS is more important than keeping the tank alive. I have no desire to do progression raiding and have to explain everything all over again every attempt because people leave and come in and none of them even consider taking 3 minutes to watch a video or read a post. I have no desire to do progression raiding in a random setting that is intended to be so easy and it was for seeing content, getting loot and collecting valor in a quick and easy way when there is nothing quick and easy about it. I have no desire to do progression raiding with random people. I quit.
The looking for raid was intended for people that could not do real raids because of time or skill reasons by being something that was easy that they can do at any time of the day in short doses and it has failed miserably at being that.
Last night I waited in queue for 42 minutes and entered a raid that went on to wipe 10 times, could have been more, I think the determination buff stops at 10, but I guess it was 10 times because we had 10 stacks when we finally lucked into killing the boss over two and a half hours after I entered the raid. I say lucked into it because when it ended only 3 of us were still up thanks to nearly the entire raid dying from one mechanic.
Over three hours, including wait time, to down one boss? This is not easy, this is not something that people that can not dedicate a lot of time to raiding can do. Three hours on one boss is ACTUAL raiding. It is not LFR. I do not even raid three hours a night with my guild and yet I get stuck in a looking for raid, when including wait time, is basically three hours to down one boss. Then, just to add insult to injury, I win nothing and end up spending over 250 gold for repairs to get a 25 gold baggie. Yeah blizzard, you win, I quit.
I want to ask an honest question here. How exactly is playing for three hours to down one boss something that people that do not have time to really raid work?
People want to use the looking for raid for something quick and easy. Three hours is not quick, 45 minutes to an hour total, including wait time, would be quick. That is all any section of the LFR should ever take. No more than 1 hour, including wait time. Even if filled with player lacking skill it should never take more than 1 hour total.
Instead I waited forever to get in. Then waited after each wipe when people left. Some of those waits upwards of 15 minutes between pulls. Then twice the boss bugged out and would not come down so we spent 10-15 minutes jumping up and down trying to get a shot in on it to aggro it so we could continue. Then when we did start the fight it was a guaranteed wipe because the melee could not hit it and the visuals were not exactly excellent when the mob was hanging out in the air which caused more to die. But we had no choice, we had to work it and wipe, so we had a chance to get back in and do it right. Either that, or drop a group that we had already invested hours in, just to have the attempt to down one freaking boss. I quit.
Now for the adding insult to injury part. I had to drop group because I had guild commitments to deal with. This means I now need to wait in queue for god knows how long again if I want to try to finish the raid. I might even get stuck in on the first boss again and have to deal with that hell again. Or even worse, I might get put in on the last boss, be forced to deal with that hell, and then need to queue up again so I can get the second boss. Waiting for yet a third time in queue for one freaking raid I should have been able to do on three characters in the time it took me to down one boss yesterday. That third time it will most likely put me in on the first boss, unless I am really super luck, which I rarely am, and I will have to spend hours wiping on that again just to get the chance to experience the hell of the second boss. I quit.
More insult to injury is the fact that my entire game day play time was spent doing one thing, for nothing. I ended up with a repair bill 10 times the amount of gold the game gave me for putting up with this shit. I did not win any gear, which I should have been given just for putting up with all this crap. It should not have been some random chance to drop it. I should have received everything that is suitable for my class as soon as the boss was downed as a thank you for sticking it out in this hell they think is fun. It is not fun to wipe with random people blizzard, not ever and it should be near impossible to wipe with random people. I quit.
Tuesdays are the good days. I have always said it, tuesdays are the best day to do the LFR because that is when the better players do it. That is why I log on as early as I can on tuesdays, that is why I play a long as I can on tuesdays, so I can get the content done faster when the better players are there. If these were the better players, and this was what the LFR was like, what chance do my alts have of getting in a decent run when I do it on the weekend and there are lesser skilled players?
WTF was blizzard thinking with progression raiding in the LFR?
I quit. I can't do this any more. If blizzard does not want me playing why didn't they just say so. When I get over my anger of this issue I will be the fool that will go right back into it trying to finish it on all my characters because I am an idiot that way. But for now, I quit. I will not do the LFR any more. Not without at least a dozen guild mates.
I am not quitting the game. No, I am too thickheaded and stubborn for that. I also would not quit over one thing. But I quit giving a crap about the LFR. I quit trying it the day it comes out and will wait for my guild now. I will probably quit doing it on alts until most people get a hang for it and it is a push over, the type of push over it should be from day one. I quit going into there being the only person that watched the damn video.
Now for two little side bits.
Looking for a new guild for my non raiding alts.
I want to find a guild for my alts to do the LFR with. Because going solo doesn't cut it any more, it is way to hard for the average player so I want to go with a group that I know is capable of doing it. I don't ever want to be caught at the mercy of randoms any more. At least not unless blizzard learns how to make content intended for random groups. This release proves they have no clue how bad their average player is. Are there any guilds out there that just do the LFR a few times a week that I can tag along with on my non raiding alts? Can we even cross realm queue for LFR? I honestly don't know.
Side bit number two, I will leave you with some fun stuff from my nightmare run.
Warlock: You guys suck, this is so easy. ( posts achievement for doing this quarter on normal)
Tank: Says the person 14th in DPS.
Rogue: And 19th in damage done because he was the first to die.
Healer: He was the first to die every time so far.
Rogue: Guess that means you got carried by your guild.
Warlock: I am better than any of you.
Rogue: Just because you got carried does not mean you are good.
Hunter: Put a star on my head so people can follow me. I know the maze.
(during the fight, talking to me.)
Hunter: Over by me huntard.
Hunter: You are going to die if you don't follow me.
(I don't respond, I do not move to him)
Hunter: Kick him after this run, he is an idiot.
(We wiped, but I was the last ranged alive as he lead the entire group that followed him to their death)
Tank: Seems like the huntard was the only one that knows how to do the maze.
Me: I figured I was safer doing it on my own. Seems I was right.
Healer (and others): lol
(hunter drops group without a word)
Mage: gogogogo
Tank: We only have three healers.
Mage: Who cares, we are going to wipe anyway, lets build some stacks of determination while we are waiting.
(I must admit he had a good point)
DPS: A mob just spawned in my beam of light, what do I do?
Healer: Kill it.
DPS: Good idea.
DPS: First time here, anything I should know?
Tank: All you need to really know is where the closest repair vendor is.
(After four wipes)
Tank: Sorry guys, I give up.
(Drops group, and three minutes later)
Same Tank: Oh crap. Well, lets try this again.
(After the seventh wipe)
Tank: I am leaving again, not going to queue up right away, maybe I will get a better group, sorry.
DPS: See you in a few minutes.
(A few minutes later)
Same Tank: This game fucking hates me.
Entire raid: lol
Healer: Lock, you there?
Lock: Yes.
Healer: Why are you not taking the rez?
Lock: We are only going to die again and I am running low on gold, can you just rez me when we get to 10 stacks.
Warrior: How hard it is for people to find the clear path?
Rogue: Judging by the stacks of determination I would say very hard apparently.
(Shaman zoning in at 10 stacks)
Shaman: I did not know this went up to 10, this does not bode well.
Healer: It stops at 10, we are actually on our 23rd try.
Shaman: Please say you are kidding.
Shaman cries.
See, there were a few funny moments, but was it worth it. Absolutely not. The LFR needs to be tuned down to LFR players with LFR skills and LFR abilities. If the best players, those first day players, can't do it, what chance to the weekend warriors have? Yeah, that is why I quit.
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Wow... 10 stacks!!... I totally sympathize.
ReplyDeleteDon't know why, but I didn't have too many wipes in LFR so far. Maybe it's the difference between US and EU (I am in EU), maybe it's the playtime, not sure. One or two wipes per run is the most I have ever seen, honest. Don't mean to gloat, of course, perhaps I have just been lucky.
The moment my run wipes more than twice on the same boss, I am quitting the run for sure. To hell with the epics, they are not worth it.
Epics? What Epics? There is a rumour that there is loot on the new LFR Bosses, unfortunately nobody as been able to confirm this yet.
DeleteYou are getting the new LFR today in the EU, might have it by now even. Lets hope they made the floor graphics more LFR friendly for you or you might end up getting to 10 stacks too. The graphics are just horrible and impossible to find the safe space or move with it for most. Me, being color blind had an even harder time. I did die due to it 3 times in my attempts and you know what the said thing is, I was one of the better ones there even if I died to it a few times. Ouch.
DeleteAnd as bob said. What epics? There is a rumor they drop loot. Can't say anyone has ever seen any. :P j/k I have seen a few, but not really all that many. Not enough to feel as if we are being awarded for doing it.
I cursed at Blizz for days upon days because of Durumu. I still do. Who ever thought of making the clouds purple. And the patches purple. And the floor purplish. Needs to be yelled at. I thought they'd change the graphics as well, but 4 weeks in and it's still the same. Sure, after the 20 initial wipes, it's all easy but hell, is that crap the worst color ever.
DeleteI think they'll rather make the haze hurt less than change the thing.
Why make the maze hurt less, make the mechanic more visual so people can see it, and teach them how to raid.
DeleteIsn't that what is supposed to be happening?
People are not upset with much more than the fact that it is impossible for some people to see the maze.
But I agree, that is exactly what they will do. Just nerf the clouds, which in my opinion just ruins it. For LFR the clouds should hit for less, yes, but the key would be to make the maze bigger and more pronounced, so people could learn. That would be the right fix.
Sorry Grumpy, this was an unpleasant night without doubt, however I must confess I laughed long and hard at the conversations, especially the poor tank.
ReplyDeleteThat is not the first time I have seen that happen to a tank. Had one rage quit a while back and but put right back in the same raid. It was quite funny seeing the people he insulted before he left have the chance to get a few words in at him.
DeleteI wiped for the first ever time - twice. Maybe my clue should have been zoning in to 5 stacks of determination. Durumu the forgotten, will be Durumu the boss nobody fights in LFR. Anyway got it on the 3rd time with 7 stacks of determination. I have to say it took me a couple of attempts to find the safe zone. I did read the guide, and I did watch a video, but that didn't help me first time. We killed him with 6 people left alive in the end, all that managed to live through the void phase, so I guess we have the 7 stacks to thank for getting the last 20% with so few people.
ReplyDeletePrimordius took three attempts. Attempt 2 was very close, 4%, but we hit beserk. It's kite fight basically, as you just need to keep him out of the purple puddles, which move slowly towards him, that and not stand in too many red ones. It seemed more straightforward than the instant death mechanic on Durumu.
Dark Animus I was worried about before I queued for this. I read the guides and watched the video and still didn't understand it. The first attempt didn't really clarify it either. However, I did get to tease my co-tank who swore on vent when he died "I had 4 of those medium adds, too many!" and I had 7 plus the boss and didn't die until I got the ring and the big add as well. I did 150k dps, it was fun. We killed it on the 2nd attempt. I did 120k dps overall that time, and was top again. Still numbers weren't as high as the fun on normal Tortos last night though, I did 200k dps there. Vengeance is nice.
Anyway you know that I agree with you. I best stop there before I rant on and make my comment too big to post again. I just can't wait until I don't need LFR anymore. I loathe it and I go with guildmates, but I think there being 6 of us is the most I've had. Usually there's 3, or sometimes just me and my co-tank. It's doable, up until this wing I've never wiped, but it's a pain. Unfortunately even when I no longer need loot I'll need rep for a while. It is unlikely that we will be clearing the place for some time. We got Council last night, tried different tactics and got it on 2nd attempt. Tortos almost went down as well, so we will definitely get that next week. However, even if soon it'll be 4/12, that means maybe I can skip wing 1 now, but I'll be queueing for these later (and more annoying) ones for sometime.
LFR is the one feature of the game that I actively hate. Everything else is people's choice, but they make us do LFR (you have to, if you want to do your best) and LFR is horrible. Either don't make us, change it or get rid of it.
Sounds like the same as me. Watched the video, read the guide, looked up tips and tricks. Still died the first time I saw it. Got it the second and kept getting better at it.
DeleteThere are two problems with it. One is that it is way to complex for the looking for raid crew. You know, the people that did not do what you and I did by researching first. The second is that it is not easy to see. Actually it is near impossible to see. I had to bump my way around until I saw I was not taking damage because being color blind I had massive problems with it.
I had a lot of problem with it and even as the raid leader I will be left no option but to sit myself from the raid when we get to it in the real raid because my color blindness will hinder our raid team.
All I would ask is that they change it to make it stand out more for people, like myself, who have issues with colors.
But for the LFR, the complex mechanic for anyone that has never raided and the visual problems myself and many other non-color blind people have it just too much.
Yes, you have to do it, that is what makes it so bad. It is not optional content if you want to be the best you can be. I hate that so many people consider it as optional. It isn't.
Someone else in my guild was running it and complaining about how long the run was taking. I said that they needed to nerf it and one of my guildies, call him A, said "it doesn't need it".
DeleteMe: Yes it does
A: No it doesn't. It's new, wipes are normal.
Me: For normal raiding I would agree, but this is LFR, it has to be idiot proof, and this is nowhere near that.
A: If it was idiot proof it would be really boring. No-one would run it.
Me: You are a real raider, of course you can cope with it, and like progressing on it. This is LFR, it's not progression raiding, it's not raiding full stop, it's a mockery of raiding. It strips out everything that is good about raiding.
A: And you want to nerf it? That'd make it even more of a mockery.
Me: The difficultly level isn't why LFR isn't raiding. It's the whole approach, it loses the team dynamic of learning a boss, working together and overcoming obstacles, the community. Randoms don't make raids.
A: Well I think LFR difficulty is fine.
Me: Yes because you are a raider.
I'm paraphrasing of course but that was the gist of the argument. We had to stop there as things were getting a bit heated. His whole argument was if it's just a zerg fest everyone will be bored. Well I think he might be bored but then he's a real raider. Most people who run LFR, real raiders or not, just want to clear the bosses. If they wanted a mess of wipes and progression they'd join a raid team.
I also agree that they need to make the color difference between good and bad much more marked. Purple on black is hard for everyone, doubly so for those who have problems with colour. I'm surprised that wasn't raised in ptr testing. It doesn't add anything to the encounter but needless frustration.
"If it was idiot proof no one would run it" Excuse me?
DeleteI would run it more often if it were idiot proof. I don't run it as often as I should because I get sick and tired of bad groups and need to take a break from time to time from it.
Yes, it should be idiot proof because that is who they allow in there. Any idiot. Sure, there could be 30, 40 or even 50 percent are real raiders looking for gear or valor, ex raiders just for something to do, or people that do not have time, but that other 50 percent are idiots. No nice way to say it but that is the truth.
Purple on black? Honestly, not being my smart ass self here, but it is not purple on black. It is all black. To me. There is no purple there at all.
PS: And yes, I made it through without getting hit a few times. By trial and error and learning where it "should" be safe. I could not see any color difference. It should not be designed to be harder for me because of colors. But then again, I could always say, if I can do it and I can not even see the difference, anyone should be able to. So double edged sword maybe. I just want to colors changed.
DeleteI ran the new wing this morning. It took a couple of hours. I think we were up to 7 stacks of Determination on the first boss, and we wiped at least once on every other boss. Oddly enough, our problem was actually the tanks on the first boss. The first time we had one tank up after the maze, we finished the kill. Enough dps and healers had made it through every time but the first try.
ReplyDeleteActually, I think we must have died at least twice on Primordius. Was it you, Grumpy, who wrote a post talking about the social player who constantly talks in chat about how awesome and experienced they are, but it's really that they're in some guild that likes them and carries them? That was one of our tanks. He yakked it up big, but managed to stand in poo, screw up taunt swapping, and so on. Getting him kicked meant a quick Primordius kill.
Hm, seems like the lack of contrast on Durumu's maze is something that should have been caught on PTR. It probably should be changed.
I did laugh at the comments. Would have been tempted to kick the lock. XD
We did end up kicking the lock. The healer warned them, take it this time or I kick. They didn't, we kicked.
DeleteYeap, I wrote about things like that before. A few times even. Sometimes it seems like the people with the biggest mouths are the worst players. But someone likes them so they get to tag along.
I had some horrible issues with the colors. I never want to do that fight again, at least until they fix it. I read something about turning particle density to low and that makes it easier to see, so next time I might try that. I just "felt" around. I knew where it should spawn, give of take, and kept moving until I was in a safe place.
I thought I'd remembered reading a post like that here. I don't think I've ran into a good example of what you meant until today.
DeleteI hope the particle density adjustment helps you out. I ended up keeping an eye on my health as much as anything else, because it wasn't always clear what was good and what wasn't.
That was really how I ended up managing it. Run around like a mad man where I think it should be until I stopped taking huge damage every second. Not a fun way to play I'll tell you that.
DeleteI am going to try again tomorrow. Cross your fingers and pray for me. lol
graphic settings don't make a difference. None at all. Take it from another color-blind person.
DeleteAnd then you also wipe on Iron Qon because you forgot to put your graphics back and didn't see the spears >.>
Well, that is disheartening. They really need to add something to make it easier to notice for people who have issues with color, or seeing in dark places, as I have heard many others say is there problem there.
DeleteEverything has a learning curve. Even my wife understood the fight mechanics after 2 wipes on Durumu. Give it 2 weeks (like the last wing) of ToT and carrying the bads wont be so hard.
ReplyDeleteI understand that, but the learning curve is too big for the audience it is intended for. As is it is perfect for a real raid. For the LFR the maze should be slightly bigger and more pronounced so people can not miss it. And of course, for my own selfish colorblind reasons, in all versions it should be more color friendly. But I guess I can understand if that part is not changed.
DeleteI love the raid chat comments. Classic stuff.
ReplyDeleteI do everything I can for my guild raid and to make my character better. Last night I decided that I just needed a break and didn't run LFR but got some family time. Looks like it may have been a very good move.
An excellent move. Saved frustration and some extra family time is always good. :)
DeleteI got in on Primordius with a couple stacks of Determination already in place, so skipped the Durumu wipe fest. Although we wiped several times on Primordius and Dark Animus. First attempt on Animus killed us in what seemed like 20 seconds... We actually backed down our DPS and went more for single target (or at least the top DPS did) and we progressed a lot further that way. I got the ring off Animus so that was a slight upgrade at least.
ReplyDeleteThere were quite a few asshats in the group though, like the ones you encountered.
I really have no desire to queue again though, just to wipe on Durumu... I'll do the others first and come back to it next week probably. Hopefully, they fix it by then.
This game just really feels like the first people to do anything on live are all treated as Beta Testers. They should try to incentivize PTR usage or something to encourage us to test it more before it goes live.
I would not have minded if I was beta testing, I would expect bugs and things to be too hard for the average player. This should have never made it live like it did. In my opinion at least. This is worse than the big circle crush thing.
DeleteSummary of this post: Don't enter LFR one day before reset.
ReplyDeleteYou get the cream of the cream if you know what I mean :-)
I was doing it on tuesday, the day it was released. Not the day before reset. I am on a US realm, not a UK one.
DeleteWow, then you truly got a bad group.
DeleteStill I also think you might be just having very very bad luck in your team. We wiped a few times
That said, the last 3 bosses may be too complex indeed for LFR. I would not be surprised if they nerf it the next few weeks.
It was the worst of all the groups I ran it with, that is for sure. most likely first day hiccups because unlike most things the new LFRs can not be something you just go into blind.
DeletePerhaps they are trying to teach the masses to look at strategies but sadly I don't think that will ever happen. They won't. Only people like me will and continue to get frustrated that others don't.
This is a game. It's for fun. If I wanted to spend my time watching youtube or reading sites, I'd do that instead of playing.
ReplyDeleteFunny how many people live by this mentality. They'd rather wipe 3 hours instead of seeing / reading a guide for 5 minutes.
So what can you do? Try to reason with them?I just avoid it alltogether.
Then again, I've no idea what people do these things. Maybe it's 7-year olds. Maybe it's people who never heard of addons. So on and so forth. /shrug
I am with you on that one. It doesn't make sense to wipe for three hours when spending 5 minutes reading or watching a video can make that "game" more fun.
DeleteAlso, I don't know about everyone, but I have more fun playing a game the better I do at it. So wouldn't you enjoy the game more being better at it.
In my day reading about a boss before you fought him was called cheating. I guess MMOs are really more of a social contract than a game. I am old and oldschool. I prefer to learn by failing but I understand how that makes be a liability to those who pre-research. If this is a democracy then you are right. But I say the trial and error people are more right than you give them credit for.
DeleteDisintegration beam? What does that do? Sores? Come again? Oh, they're in the Dungeon Journal. Pffft. I'd rather trial and error.
DeleteSo no, they're just wrong, no matter how much credit you think they deserve.
Thats hilarious. How do you think people learned content before the journal??! How do cutting edge guilds learn the content? the REAL problem is NOT learning from mistakes. LFR should have Benny Hill music playing at all times and anyone who doesnt like it can raid with professionals or individuals with upper double-digit IQs
Delete@ First Anon
DeleteI am actually the same way when I play a game for PS3 for example. I jump in and then if I have trouble I will look it up. I like to learn by experience. This however is a multi player game and being others depend on my to do my best I feel it is my job to not let them deal with me while I learn, so to speak. So I prepare. But otherwise, I agree with you, I like to learn by doing but I changed because that would be unfair of me to do.
DPS: First time here, anything I should know?
ReplyDeleteTank: All you need to really know is where the closest repair vendor is.
This made me laugh my head off. I agree about the maze on Durumu being very hard to see, though I actually turned my particle density to full from low to try and fix that....didn't seem to make much difference either way honestly, I did get the hang of it after a night of wipes, I purposefully avoided doing the new section of LFR this week though on my alts, expecting carnage there. Funnily...our mage, who was leading people through the maze on our first few attempts and I think is about the only one who hasn't died to it, is also colorblind! I believe though that there's various forms of colorblindness so what was ok for him might well be totally unseeable for others.
For those who've had bad experiences this week, don't worry too much. I have noticed each time a new section comes out, that weeks LFR runs are pretty awful...but the next week, most of the people have done it once at least (eventually...) and things seem to go a lot smoother.
Totally agree on the changes though, odds are Blizz will do as you said and nerf the damage, making the path easier to see/wider would be a much better change for LFR, and making it easier to see would be nice for normal/heroic too!
Katzbalger-Arthas (US)
Yes, there are various types. There are some things I might have issues with that others do not and vice versa.
DeleteI can see it being harder to see on normal and heroic but in LFR I really think it should be another color that would stand out to anyone. Like yellow maybe?
I just found something on wow forums while bored browsing that might help you out, a colorblind shader command, haven't tried it out to see what it does myself yet, not logged on the game.
ReplyDelete/console colorblindshader 1-8
O_o
DeleteI need to check that out. I had made a few tickets with color issues and no GMs ever mentioned anything being in game.
I have to say I agree. I have never raided before the LFR, mostly because I don't have the time to commit in a single session that raiding requires. I have an hour or maybe two late in the evenings most nights and that's it. With the LFR, I finally decided to give the raiding a try in MOP because it seemed like it would be doable with the time I had available. I was mistaken. I've found it to be an absolutely miserable way to spend an evening. Our queue times are usually shorter than yours, fifteen minutes, but it seems like I spend all the time i have wiping, repairing and listening to people be unpleasant to each other. If most people are experiencing raids this way, and it's this unpleasant, I don't understand why they're investing more time in this type of content. I'd much rather see them put there time in more five mans or other content that people seem to like than investing their resources in content where people are just hating on each other and not having any fun whatsoever.
ReplyDeleteIf you ever had the time to really raid on a schedule then I would suggest finding a group of people that you like and going for it.
DeleteNormal raiding might be a lot harder than the LFR and you will wipe, but with good people that are willing to work together, spending 3 hours to down one boss becomes fun.
That design, with random people however, is horrible, as you have seen.
I normally don't run new LFR wings until a week or two after they've been released to let at least a decent number of folks learn the fights but I was off work for a few days this week and decided to give the new quarter a shot on Wed... did a bit of strat reading in advance, realized that I had no clue about how the Beholder boss worked even after reading a strat so I watched my first boss video in years (I don't even watch video for normal bosses). After seeing the fight I'm glad I did but it's not like it would have mattered if I hadn't, it's not like it prevented wipes.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I'd pegged the Beholder as the problem boss of this quarter, although I wasn't able to test it out right away, my first run was for the last boss... we did have a couple of wipes on that one (still not sure why dps find it so difficult to wait for the tank to collect all the mobs at the mark they that's been put on the floor before they attack) but it wasn't too bad. I re-queued, Beholder boss was about as bad as I'd expected, although not for the reasons I'd expected... I kept going to the wrong side of the kill beam thingie since apparently the cloud doesn't fill in equally quickly in both directions, which I find baffling... once I figured out that I had to go to the opposite side of where my brain was telling me to go (and I mentioned it in raid chat, which I think helped out a few others as well), we got a clunky kill on the next attempt. I also never really found that there were fully safe spots in the maze, there always seemed to be a bit of a partially formed cloud on most of the "safe" spots.
We had a wipe on the 8th boss as well but I think our strategy of just leaving the boss in the middle of the room rather than kiting him made it more difficult. Still, 2nd attempt was a kill... as a melee dps I have no clue how to actually do decent dps on that fight, though, I did 33K (usually 90-95K single target) due to an insane number of debuffs that I never even saw, I definitely wasn't trying to stand in extra puddles. An overgeared rogue in our group did 125K, though, so apparently they're possible to avoid, I just need to learn the trick. Seems like yet another ranged-friendly fight, though.
I had a fear after reading the strats before going in that this was going to be an even rougher quarter than the second one, especially in the first week... there are just too many mechanics in the LFR fights. The maze shouldn't be a maze, it should just be a rotating beam that you have to avoid... the coloured beams should rotate themselves rather than relying on a player to know what to do with them (one attempt didn't unmask the red mob until the maze phase was starting, apparently there's a time limit). I wouldn't call LFR progression fights, necessarily, but I get where you're coming from... they've said publicly, though, that they're fine with a 2-3 wipe average per boss, at least in the early learning stages, and there aren't too far off that... I thought second quarter was too tough but I don't think I ever had more than 3 wipes on a boss. This week's third quarter had, I think, 10 wipes total between the 3 bosses... a bit higher than what they want, but not terribly. I haven't had a 10- or 23-wipe boss fight yet but I can see how that would happen, these aren't necessarily mechanics that more health/dps/healing can get you past.
I also feel for healers... watching for maze safe zones, plus watching health bars, plus watching for ability cooldowns simultaneously... where are you supposed to look? We're getting to the point where I think it'd be easier to play on a small screen than a large one and that should never be the case.
As for the colour blind thing, I'm almost certain there's a checkbox in the Help section of Interface that will enable colour blind mode, the /console command might work as well but I'd use the built-in interface one.
When I ran it on me healers this weekend it was a matter of hoping the right people drop. We wiped over and over on the first boss until a few DPS dropped and a few that knew the maze came in and we got it.
DeleteSecond boss the tanks were running him around like a mad man, two wipes later they left, new tanks came in and we went from getting him down only 20% to a clean kill with no deaths, shows it was all on the tanks doing a horrible job kiting.
Third boss, sadly both tanks that came in for the one shot with them second boss left and we had two new tanks.
Both went down left and right like they were wearing tissue paper and people did not understand where to run with the debuff.
Two new tanks, and people finally gettting the debuff thing, and we downed it no problem.
So that was not all that bad, but really, we shouldn't need to have to wait to get better DPS, it is the LFR not normal mode. We should not have to wait for over geared tanks that know how to use cooldowns, it is the LFR. We shouldn't need excellence of execution where one person does not stand under the pack and get everyone killed, it is the LFR.
There is just too much going on for the LFR version of those fights. You said you knew it just looking at them, I knew it, 100s if not 1000s of others knew it, I wonder why blizzard did not know it.
The in game one only labels rare and epic items as rare and epic. I tried that before. Nice addition because I could not tell the difference, but ever since they added item level it no longer matters anyway.
Yeah, I did check out the tooltip for the colour blind option when I got home and it didn't look useful for in-game events, sorry about that. Not sure why they'd add it for something as trivial as UI issues.
DeleteIt's funny - I don't even know what debuff mechanic you're talking about with the last boss, apparently I didn't get it or was just able to ignore it.
Still, even with all of the issues and it only being day 2 of the instance being available (which still had a few folks calling people who didn't understand the mechanics "noobs" or worse... uh, yeah? First time in for most of us, pal...), it wasn't a horrible experience and the bosses did go down sooner than later. The biggest delay was waiting for replacements after drops... we lost a tank after the first Beholder boss wipe and it took 20 minutes to replace him. I was actually surprised we decided not to just wipe a couple of times to get the buff up while we waited.
I hate those people that call others noobs because they do not know something the first day.
DeleteEven if you read something, even if you watch the video, you are not going to do it well until you actually attempt it. If everything was as easy as reading or watching every raider would be a heroic raider.
Doing will always take practice and there will always be people who are there for the first time.
I have no problem with people that are new. The only problem I have is with people that aren't and still refuse to learn or can't get better.
This is why guilds have applications...
ReplyDeleteNot exactly sure what you mean, this has nothing to do with guilds. It was about the LFR and if there is an LFR application that people are filling out whoever does the accepting needs to be fired.
DeleteI would not even group up for a quest with half the people in the LFR because their ability is not even enough to handle that.
It's been nerfed now because they agree that it's too hard. They don't always get everything right first try.
ReplyDeleteIt seemed easier to see this time around. Either that or after doing it 6 times already I've gotten better at picking it out. But I can swear it seems much easier to notice now. Still, took 5 wipes for the group I was in to get it. The only people that survived on the kill were the 2 tanks, 2 healers and me and two other DPS. I was the only one that survived it all 5 tries.
DeleteIt was not nerfed, if it was, people have gotten worse since last week. lol
Not a nerf, more of a fix.
Delete---
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Late in the 5.2 PTR cycle we found that the Durumu smoke effects during the maze phase were causing debilitating performance issues for some users’ computer hardware configurations. We made a fairly last-minute change to the cloud effect that wasn’t quite what we had first planned on using, and as you’re likely aware, made traversing the maze more difficult than we had intended.
Last night we released a fast patch in addition to a standard hotfix, which both work to improve the readability of the maze visual, as well as make the way the maze appears a bit more intuitive. These changes will be noted in a future hotfix blog update.
It being Tuesday and all, we’re eager to hear how these improvements impact your runs tonight and/or later this week. Let us know in the comments below!
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The change made it much easier to see. Still suffered a fair deal of wipes.
DeletePeople will still die to it even if it easier to see, but at least now they can actually see it which should make them learning it a lot easier.
I still stand by what I always say, there should never be a learning type mechanic like that in the LFR. It is not fair to subject people that know how to do it while other learn week after week. Guilds teach new players, randoms should not have to.
One word struck me: progression. Is LFR meant to be progression? I only ask because I never thought it was, but merely a means for players who can't raid with "real" raid teams as a way to get some half-decent gear and see content that would otherwise be blocked. I am truly asking respectfully, having seen more than my share of asshats in LFR. What are your thoughts on this?
ReplyDeleteIt is not meant to be progression. It just is.
DeleteWiping over and over and talking strategy and running leaders for other spots and where to line up and kill crews, all things I have seen now in the LFR, are progression things. Tweaking your team to progress on the fight.
LFR is NOT meant to be progression. It is means to be a loot pinata and needs to start acting like that.
Once we have to mark people to learn others, the follow me theory, then you have already went well past what the LFR was intended for.
As always, in my opinion.
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