tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post3344183739681958617..comments2024-03-27T07:57:48.010-04:00Comments on The Grumpy Elf: Top 10 Reasons We Need More Fights Like UltraxionTheGrumpyElfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-2353561667230736662012-02-07T00:42:52.178-05:002012-02-07T00:42:52.178-05:00Late post, but I wanted to mention that Ultraxion ...Late post, but I wanted to mention that Ultraxion isn't really fair to at least 3 specs. Cat druids and sub rogues can't use their primary attack due to Blizz's STUPID ASS let's-all-attack-from-the-front-but-still-force-positional-requirements-on-some-classes'-main-attack mindset. (also screws over mut rogues somewhat)<br /><br />Whatever gives you the idea that I am bitter?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-43810902162687661232012-02-01T14:52:26.699-05:002012-02-01T14:52:26.699-05:00I guess that is where I am willing to accept thing...I guess that is where I am willing to accept things at a different rate.<br /><br />I don't give a flying F if the hunter is doing 80K DPS, if they die they are useless and I do not want them in my raid whereas I don't care what the tanks DPS is. If he keeps the mobs interest and keeps using his cooldowns in a way to make the healers life easier, I am happy with him. More DPS is welcome, but not demanded.<br /><br />Then again, it is no secret, I am really hard on the damage dealers. I hold them to a much higher standard of play because of the importance of their role.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-18000395296081931472012-02-01T14:12:57.848-05:002012-02-01T14:12:57.848-05:00And I can do damage on a hunter doing nothing but ...And I can do damage on a hunter doing nothing but auto shot. If you're doing nothing but CSing, then you're being a lazy tank.<br /><br />Tanking is your number one job when you're tanking, and it's a multi-faceted one. Just as DPS encompasses both DPS and handling group mechanics. The hunter who faceplants every Hour of Twilight but does 40k DPSwhen he's alive is still a bad hunter. Just as the tank who survives the fight but only did 12k DPS wasn't doing his job to the fullest.The Renaissance Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15218269024132171600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-53067999084160323952012-02-01T07:11:56.088-05:002012-02-01T07:11:56.088-05:00It is true, the reason it is so fun for me is we d...It is true, the reason it is so fun for me is we do not see it often, if we did I probably would get tired of it quickly. I still like it however because it is a rare thing.<br /><br />Not meant to be offensive to anyone but if they need help to press a button they should not be playing any sort of video game. <br /><br />I can see people not getting out of an ability fast enough, you can teach them to know when the ability is coming based on boss visuals or vocals that are telling that it is coming. <br /><br />I can see people not seeing ground effects due to graphics, but graphics do not matter here. <br /><br />I can not see people not being able to press a button when in some cases they have as much as 10 second to hit it.<br /><br />If it takes anyone more then a 10 second warning to press a button they need to find another game to play. Again, not trying to be disrespectful, just honest.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-35409826373849668992012-02-01T07:01:34.592-05:002012-02-01T07:01:34.592-05:00I understand what you are getting at but I am stuc...I understand what you are getting at but I am stuck in the mindset that my job is to protect people and as such that is job #1. Funny part is, with the threat buff, that is no longer something to worry about. Once you get a nice aggro lead you rarely if ever lose it.<br /><br />I actually prefer the tanking concept where aggro is my main focus and it takes skill and effort to maintain but it is not like that. By the time you are 30 seconds into a fight you can AFK now and watch TV and most likely never lose aggro.<br /><br />I once joked with someone that you can tank on a paladin using crusader strike and nothing else, this was before the threat buff, and he tried it and did perfectly. Never lost aggro even once.<br /><br />This, in my opinion, is what makes tanking boring.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-82875485234562851612012-02-01T04:13:52.973-05:002012-02-01T04:13:52.973-05:00Because it's less fun? I agree with Shintar, I...Because it's less fun? I agree with Shintar, I would play DPS if I wanted to.<br /><br />As for the mechanics, it's one of the "challenge the worst" kind. This is positive ("if you can't do this, you're not good enough to raid") but also negative as there is nothing you can do to help the person failing in the mechanic, no matter how well you execute the fight.<br /><br />The indisputable positive quality is the uniqueness but that would be lost if we had more encounters like that. :o)Imakulatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18327043103775428011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-28303976382244632402012-01-31T20:13:00.972-05:002012-01-31T20:13:00.972-05:00Tanking should never be boring. You're not jus...Tanking should never be boring. You're not just some "meat shield" passively getting punched in the face. You are the tip of the spear. You are the keystone of the raid. You are the only person in the raid who actually trades blows with the enemy. Emphasis on trading blows. The boss punches you? You cave his face in with your shield. The boss punches a mage? The mage explodes into a fine pink mist. One is decidedly more heroic than the other. <br /><br />Don't look at tanking as a passive act, it's the most aggressive role in the game. You control everything. Your performance sets the bar for DPS. They have to react to your threat generation, they have to react to where you take the boss, and if you fail in your job, they're the ones who are scrambling to flee in horror from the abomination that they can't control. Even healers are bound to reacting to the damage intake of the raid. But as a tank? You're in control, you make the decisions that can wipe the raid in an instant if you make the wrong call.<br /><br />So don't think of it as something that's there to simply support the DPS. Think of it as "Heroic DPS" Because that's what it is. You still have to do everything that you did when you were a normal DPS, only there's new mechanics you have to deal with.The Renaissance Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15218269024132171600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-78777076883964693662012-01-31T19:09:04.040-05:002012-01-31T19:09:04.040-05:00I think you might have just given me a new aim for...I think you might have just given me a new aim for tanking. Or at least something that will turn into more then just the boring meat shield I play it as.<br /><br />I tank with all four classes, but this expansion I've been primarily a warrior and druid.<br /><br />I do most of what you say but not the R and R as often as I should or could. I know I lack on using those.<br /><br />When I started warrior tanking I had this amazing, and I mean he made tanking look fun type of amazing, warrior tank in guild. He quit when cata came out because he was sick of it and it was boring. He was teaching me the finer points before he left, stance dancing was the last thing we went over extensively. Now I just read a lot. <br /><br />I've read about using R & R but I am still "living in fear of the cooldown". That phrase is what I use when people are afraid to use cooldowns.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-66007806074475398062012-01-31T18:58:36.372-05:002012-01-31T18:58:36.372-05:00You are completely correct.
The reason I like thi...You are completely correct.<br /><br />The reason I like this fight is because we are not seeing it all the time. If we saw it all the time I would probably be sick of it.<br /><br />It is one of those "be careful what you wish for" things.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-62444641635169449852012-01-31T18:57:41.962-05:002012-01-31T18:57:41.962-05:00See, I find playing DPS in a raid trivial because ...See, I find playing DPS in a raid trivial because the entirety of the DPS experience, all the micromanaging of CDs and trinkets and plotting out a nine layer deep priority rotation, the pre potting, and planning my movement ahead of time, all of that stuff, I already do on my tanks, while worrying about all the stuff that DPS don't have to worry about like lining up defensive CDs, proper positioning of the mobs being tanked, ensuring that tanking transitions happen smoothly, picking up adds, and maintaining TD uptime. Things that I can completely ignore when playing a DPS.<br /><br />Assuming you're playing on a warrior when tanking, are you maximizing rend uptime? Are you using shattering throw in conjunction with Heroism? Are you using Recklessness and Retaliation at the proper times without compromising your survivbility? Are you synching up your shield blocks with the shield slam and revenge CDs? Are you leveraging Colossus Smash when you're not actively tanking? <br /><br />If you love DPSing because of the percieved complexity of DPSing, then just look at tanking as DPSing with even more responsibility. Approach your rotation while tanking not only as something to keep aggro off the other raiders, but as your own contribution to the boss's demise. Give it every bit of the same attention you give to your shot rotation on your hunter to eek out those last few hundred DPS.The Renaissance Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15218269024132171600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-21584030085388216342012-01-31T18:56:54.443-05:002012-01-31T18:56:54.443-05:00True, but why should DPS have all the number spamm...True, but why should DPS have all the number spamming fun. They should share. :P<br /><br />Given the option I would only play my hunter, but I'll help any group out in any role they need and as odd as it might seems they always need healers and tanks. <br /><br />So share the fun once in a while.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-23553715413023121842012-01-31T18:20:45.710-05:002012-01-31T18:20:45.710-05:00I was always of the camp that fights akin to Patch...I was always of the camp that fights akin to Patchwerk were enjoyable *because* they were standalones in simplicity.<br />Incorporating more of these fights, or spreading simplicity around would only result in quicker times in reaching boredom.Ahtchuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02137426873819158649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-60299855815725033962012-01-31T18:11:11.224-05:002012-01-31T18:11:11.224-05:00I'm not sure you're making a very strong c...I'm not sure you're making a very strong case for this fight being interesting to all roles by arguing that<br /><br />1) as DPSer you get to feel like your DPS matters<br />2) as tank you get to feel like a DPS<br />3) as a healer you get to feel like a DPS too. :P<br /><br />I always thought that the spammy fights were the most tedious to heal. If I wanted to play DPS... then I would play DPS. ;)Shintarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16758343475446510635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-10832626602384100852012-01-31T17:35:24.955-05:002012-01-31T17:35:24.955-05:00I liked nef only from a tanking perspective but it...I liked nef only from a tanking perspective but it was not my favorite for that tier. Did not enjoy it from a healing or DPS perspective. <br /><br />In that tier I liked chim best as DPS and healer and Mal best as a tank, add tank that is. I think the three bosses to start throne were fun all around for all roles and I think the last boss there was the worst boss since EoE. I hate anything that sends me in the air. <br /><br />Maybe we need more like this. ;)TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-55324609676473315872012-01-31T17:26:36.853-05:002012-01-31T17:26:36.853-05:00I know that tank DPS matters. As a DPS main I am ...I know that tank DPS matters. As a DPS main I am always preaching how important DPS is and in some of my older posts you would see that I always say, and still agree, that DPS is the single most important role in the game. Tanks and healers are just support classes for the damage dealers.<br /><br />So of course the more DPS the tank puts out the easier the fight becomes. However, with that said, this is the first fight where I actively felt like my DPS was needed and not just a bonus to make the fight easier.<br /><br />Perhaps if I looked at all fights the way I look at Ultraxion, as my DPS matters, I would enjoy it more but I tank out of necessity, not because I am a tank. I am a hunter. So for me, tanking is boring as sin and I like fights where I can feel I am contributing. Hence the reason I love tanking adds on nef and mal and things like that. Because it is fun to actually feel like you are contributing and for me, Ultraxion makes me feel like that.<br /><br />Sure, my 18K will never beat anyone in my guild or any guild really but in raid finder, I can finish as high as 6th or 7th and pull closer to 22K and that is fun.<br /><br />That is why it is fun for me. I can out DPS the DPS and for a DPS that is playing a tank, that is what it is all about.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-37925921379362896162012-01-31T17:10:19.657-05:002012-01-31T17:10:19.657-05:00So do you think we need more fights like this?
I ...So do you think we need more fights like this?<br /><br />I do enjoy Ultraxion. It's not my favorite fight of the expansion (Nefarion was, probably), but it is enjoyable to have a fight where your focus is tuned, laser-like, to squeezing every last drop of output out rather than somewhat dispersed in dodging things.Minstrelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12065427413307217086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-78916774741351697372012-01-31T16:10:43.903-05:002012-01-31T16:10:43.903-05:00One of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to brea...One of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to breaking in a new co-tank is the prevailing sentiment that tank DPS doesn't matter. This has come out of the woodwork in spades since the idiotic 500% threat buff.<br /><br />If you're tanking something that the raid is going to kill, then your damage matters. When my guild was struggling to find the DPS to get Heroic rhyolith down, we altered our strat. I soloed the Sparks down. If I wasn't running my rotation perfectly, the spark would have killed me. The first night we downed Heroic Bethtilac, we had multiple sub 2% wipes. I tightened up the rotation of the tank going upstairs, and we killed it the next attempt. Tank DPS has always mattered.<br /><br />From a mechanics perspective, there really isn't anything separating Ultraxion from every other tank and spank out there. What made you enjoy Ultraxion more than tanking Baleroc, or Chimaeron, or Magmaw?The Renaissance Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15218269024132171600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-18359217735361375792012-01-31T14:02:37.151-05:002012-01-31T14:02:37.151-05:00Yeap. I love tanking adds. In the first tier Mal...Yeap. I love tanking adds. In the first tier Maloriak was my favorite fight to tank and I was upset if I had to main tank it. Same with Nef. Alys was boring and I only tanked beth once downstairs and it wasn't exactly what I would call fun or challenging.<br /><br />I think I dig the fact my DPS matters. I get to tank like a DPS and that is fun.<br /><br />Mind you, I have never touched any heroic encounters on any of my characters this expansion, so I can not speak from that standpoint.<br /><br />Each person likes the things they like. While I loved Mal's adds you might have hated it. I even made a spec for tanking adds back then and was always excited to use it.<br /><br />Ultraxion was the first fight (non add related) that I enjoyed this expansion from a tanking perspective.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-17848389751235892162012-01-31T13:53:34.704-05:002012-01-31T13:53:34.704-05:00You really feel like you're doing more on ultr...You really feel like you're doing more on ultraxion than on Alysrazor, Downstairs on Beth'tilac, or handling constructs on Nefarian? <br /><br />Cataclysm had a lot of engaging encounters for tanks, but I think Ultraxion ranks near the bottom, especially on normal mode.The Renaissance Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15218269024132171600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-48033190390401223142012-01-31T12:38:39.064-05:002012-01-31T12:38:39.064-05:00That is why I try to tank the boss if capable. Wh...That is why I try to tank the boss if capable. While the group hates losing my DPS for the fight I know the fight from a tanking standpoint and can do around 18K DPS as a tank.<br /><br />This fight can be a little iffy for new tanks, even more so tanks without a longer tanking history. They are the only role that actually has a learning curve on this fight. Kind of a shock to the system to new tanks that only know taunt at 3.<br /><br />Once your tanks learn it, it will be fine. Just give the time, it should not take more then 1 day or wiping to do it.<br /><br />It took me 1 day to train another tank, next time in there we downed it.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-72953917840700821572012-01-31T12:32:46.708-05:002012-01-31T12:32:46.708-05:00That is one of the reasons I love the fight. It m...That is one of the reasons I love the fight. It makes it so everyone has to get that little extra in there and every single person can make a huge difference. First time ever with that particular set of 10 but with everyone knowing the fight we got it on the third try. Pretty sweet if you ask me.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-458431394315340172012-01-31T12:26:05.472-05:002012-01-31T12:26:05.472-05:00Ultraxion was a bit frustrating for me personally ...Ultraxion was a bit frustrating for me personally only because we have a new tank to our group who had more problems with the combination of Fading Light / Hour of Twilight and he should and we had one full night of just him dying. <br /><br />Despite all that I still agree that this is a good fight. I also like the option to 2 or 3 heal it on 10 man. The DPS in our group isn't stellar and 2 healing it prooved to be much easier for us, however if you have great dps and perhaps some newer healers that route works well too.<br /><br />And I didn't even know he dropped a mount! Even more exciting now.Dimlinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-2679857733497354182012-01-31T12:13:14.996-05:002012-01-31T12:13:14.996-05:00I know Ultraxion fell for us last night, so I can ...I know Ultraxion fell for us last night, so I can understand your enthusiasm. I am glad our raid group got that boss down before the patch today. I know 5/8 normal isn't nothing to brag on regarding super progression, but I am still very proud of our raiders for playing with enthusiasm and still allowing us a very relaxed casual atmosphere. Considering the small amount of time we actually do progression raiding, I do think we are doing alright. <br /><br />Anon, Grumpy's GLAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com