tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post1629100383035358621..comments2024-03-29T05:19:30.673-04:00Comments on The Grumpy Elf: What Keeps Good DPS From Becoming Tank or Heals?TheGrumpyElfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-14732659463712146972015-12-25T07:23:02.011-05:002015-12-25T07:23:02.011-05:00I seems that 10man gave much more opportunity for ...I seems that 10man gave much more opportunity for healers to shine than 20man now. We used to run heroics with 2 healers usually - they had a much tighter toolkit to deal with. Fewer cooldowns, frequent range issues (you coulnt just assign one healer to follow 2 players with a special task far apart thebulk) one healer CC'd meant lots of stress for the other one to make up for it. One of the healers, along with one of our tanks who was a beast (a bear, incidently) were the superstars of our team. This has completely changed in 20 mans. Usually the DPS who ranks highest on special high danger targets, think doomfire or phantasmal resonance, are hailed (good times for hunters...) Rilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09709340351453428073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-15054138030491660222015-12-23T17:16:00.923-05:002015-12-23T17:16:00.923-05:00Anon, Grumpy's former Guild Leader:
For a lon...Anon, Grumpy's former Guild Leader:<br /><br />For a long time, I was the principal healer in our guild, dungeon and raid after dungeon and raid. There really isn't any great secret to being a competent healer. You see a player take damage, you cast a heal. <br /><br />The good healers cast the spell that will be best suited to the damage being taken, whether it is a HOT or quick expensive heal or a slower less expensive heal. It is really that simple. <br /><br />The trick is picking the right spell time after time, watching the health of the others (as well as yourself--something all healers seem to have a problem with at times) and making sure to keep all the other little things going on, like stepping out of the fire, etc. <br /><br />So yes, I think healing is a relatively easy part of the trinity of roles. Doesn't mean everyone can do it well, even for those who use add-ons to basically try to automate as much as possible. <br /><br />Partly I would say that is because ending the fight with the boss dead, and the players all alive and healthy is as good as a healer can do. No one likes giving healers credit for that state, assuming that it is what should be the result. No Glory in other words.<br /><br />Also in this vein, is the fact that healing numbers mean virtually nothing, unlike DPS numbers. The good or bad play of the tanks and DPS are far more influential on the numbers a healer has than the skill level of the healer.<br /><br />That is why DPS don't become good healers by switching specs or classes. There is nothing for them to gain other than healing gear and a headache. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-84026712143010404292015-12-23T10:45:17.947-05:002015-12-23T10:45:17.947-05:00I think the problems you describe here are real an...I think the problems you describe here are real and the dynamics accurate. However, I don't think they take in the whole complexity of the issue.<br /><br />The social arrangements and obligations we have to our raidmates and friends can be quite significant, and I feel they influence the migration of players. Both healers and tanks have very defined numbers within a raid group, and as you say, the more accomplished the group, usually you need less healers, and definitely no more tanks. So, what happens to a person on a team that wants to switch to one of these roles that has a spot filled. Sure you can put it up for discussion see if ppl want to switch up roles and make room for them, but if they really want to be a healer but there isn't room, they are faced with a choice: Do I stay with my team, my friends, my connections, and my schedule or do I go in search of a new team (and all the implicit and explicit uncertainty involved in that). It is the same issue for tanks as well, but DPS are much much more fungeable. Having a great DPS player (not just numbers) can really cover for teams that have other weak technical players. There is a value and contribution to the team that the good player can see and feel viscerally. There's the social status and respect you get from the team on your performance which should not be discounted either. There's a whole host of reasons why staying is preferable, and only a few reasons why a good player would leave a comfortable team. Either their life conditions (work schedule, family obligations, etc) change and they have to change raiding times or they have one or more goals that they want to achieve but feel they can't with the current team. Then consider, they are going to be trying out for a new team in a new role? If they are progression oriented, their best chances are putting their skill forward as that great DPS. If its a life change, then that performance level pressure isn't there and the good dps can change roles.<br /><br />So, how often do both the good dps player wants to change roles and they have a team that will adjust or find a team that will accept them in the new role? I think of all the personel changes to a team, this confluence of factors happens a small percentage of the time.<br /><br />I just believe there are a lot more pressures or reasons on a good DPS not to move teams or switch roles. In fact, I think there are a lot of pressures not to have any change roles. Hopefully ppl find teams with the maturity and flexibility to allow people to change up as needed between tiers.Thuggs@Alecmazzarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-84102996411590619912015-12-23T08:06:23.095-05:002015-12-23T08:06:23.095-05:00I sticked to the hunter class for 11 years because...I sticked to the hunter class for 11 years because of the responsibility. There are several bosses in hfc alone whete i am always in because of some special role (eg xhul add kiting duty, archy fire soaking).<br /><br />Also I expect that high skull difference among dps ("that one terrible guy" vs 2 or 3 ppl constantly on top) is mostly due to the numbers. You have 5-8 times nore dps than tanks in a raid. Of course the bell curve for skill is going to be wider, it is natural to have a wider skill gap than between 2 tanks or 4 healers. Your point of smaller number of spots for tanks and healers still stands. Rilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09709340351453428073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-17218209874660541802015-12-23T08:02:48.470-05:002015-12-23T08:02:48.470-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Rilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09709340351453428073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-66334068728157468902015-12-23T04:16:01.557-05:002015-12-23T04:16:01.557-05:00I think it goes both ways. Usually, people stick t...I think it goes both ways. Usually, people stick to their chosen roles, the one they enjoy the most (and is closer to their personality). If they have an offspec, it's for questing or shorter queues, backup at best, but not something they're willing to put up as main.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18173436197557929355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-28201583437609156642015-12-22T17:01:11.968-05:002015-12-22T17:01:11.968-05:00Anon, Grumpy's former Guild Leader:
I know yo...Anon, Grumpy's former Guild Leader:<br /><br />I know you firmly believe in a class tanking or healing if it is possible for the class. It was always one of the points on which we totally disagree. Being a tank is not as easy as you make it sound, at least not for everyone--and it is on that clause, that I base my disagreement. You are one of the very few players I have ever seen who really can switch from class to class and role to role to role with no problem. There are a fair number who can handle one of the roles, a lesser number who can do two roles well and only a relative few players who can master all three.<br /><br />Your wrong assessment of your playing ability clouds your judgement on this. You think you are a slightly above average player, when in truth you are absolutely one of the best players world wide. Sure there are a ton of players who are better than you, but remember a ton is only 2000 pounds and allowing around 150 pounds per player...Ok, that part is a joke, yea, but the point remains that while there are players who are a lot better than you, most players would be happy to reach your level in one role--much less all three roles.<br /><br />I have more to say on this but for this posting alone, my point is that the trinity roles are not easily filled with competent players and certainly not ones who can switch from one role to another.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-64105330975697521632015-12-22T14:45:33.359-05:002015-12-22T14:45:33.359-05:00another chains of sindragosa link from before it w...another chains of sindragosa link from before it was nerfed<br /><br /><a href="https://sanguinefortitude.wordpress.com/2015/03/28/breath-of-windragosa/" rel="nofollow">https://sanguinefortitude.wordpress.com/2015/03/28/breath-of-windragosa/</a><br />--<br />Regards,<br /><br />regardsanonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-66163633795034191592015-12-22T14:44:00.006-05:002015-12-22T14:44:00.006-05:00The tanking metrics aren't great because there...The tanking metrics aren't great because there is so much that is situational. The Theck-Meloree Index (TMI) from Paladin theorycrafter Theck, KRSI (Kihra's Resolve-Weighted Survivability Index) and <a href="https://twitter.com/kihraoftemerity/status/559927422234017793" rel="nofollow">EHRPS</a> from Khira of WarCraftLogs, and the "Heal Req/s" at AskMrRobot all can show misleading numbers making you think the tank is great when really they just taunted too early and ended up tanking the boss longer or something simple and dumb like that.<br /><br />... HOWEVER ...<br /><br />I can't speak for healers, but for tanks (DK tank here) as you get better you focus less on mitigation and more on damage.<br /><br />This was extremely relevant in Mists of Pandaria with Vengeance. While it is less applicable now that Vengeance is gone and Resolve has no damage dealing element to it, tank damage can still be equivalent to 1 dps (or more) worth of damage rather than 1/2 a dps.<br /><br />Death Knights were using Breath of Sindragosa to deal massive damage in prior 6.x patches, it had massive RNG but someone found out you could pair it with Chains of Ice to reduce the RNG.<br />Troxism from mmo-champion forums originally called it Chains of Cancer, but re-evaluated and decided that reducing the RNG was a positive change and allowed for smart tanks to trade surivability for damage, which he deemed an interested gameplay decision for good tanks to not get bored being super surivable.<br />* <a href="http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1607763-Blood-DK-Warlords-of-Draenor-Patch-6-2-Guide-(Long-but-has-TLDR-Version)?p=33588609&highlight=google#post33588609" rel="nofollow">http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1607763-Blood-DK-Warlords-of-Draenor-Patch-6-2-Guide-(Long-but-has-TLDR-Version)?p=33588609&highlight=google#post33588609</a><br />* <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NFWCisTeIjwQM_OSCKVonGw5cLg1eF5dTw8Z63QOAAM/edit" rel="nofollow">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NFWCisTeIjwQM_OSCKVonGw5cLg1eF5dTw8Z63QOAAM/edit</a><br /><br />...but that got nerfed to be just pure RNG.<br /><a href="http://blizzardwatch.com/2015/05/23/plaguebearer-chains-of-sindragosa/" rel="nofollow">http://blizzardwatch.com/2015/05/23/plaguebearer-chains-of-sindragosa/</a><br /><br />As someone in a non-progression guild who carries players like you describe, I never felt comfortable using Breath of Sindragosa. However, over time, I have created a "tank dps" gear set with multistrike and some dps-ish trinkets (currently using fully upgraded Knight's Badge with flat bonus armor and proc crit, and Discordant Chaos with flat strength and proc cleave) and discarded the set bonus in favor of better stats.<br /><br />Depending on the fight, I will beat dps and/or healers, so I don't prioritize survival gear unless we are wiping repeatedly and I am a factor in it.<br /><br />tldr: tanks can measure improvement by wearing more dps-ish gear<br />--<br />Regards,<br /><br />regardsanonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-58329380210245602792015-12-22T14:02:33.833-05:002015-12-22T14:02:33.833-05:00I personally agree with #1. I have one of each rol...I personally agree with #1. I have one of each role in my 100 stable and the DPS currently has the best gear out of all three. Despite the 30-45 minute random queue timer, I love to be able to simply sit in the back and dps instead of actually 'knowing' the fight. My healer is now starting to catch up, because she can hide among the other 4-5 healers in LFR. She won't ever be the top healer because she is doing her dispells. <br /><br />Tanking has always been a bit difficult because you're often considered the automatic raid leader of the group. While I do my research, I haven't tanked this before on higher levels. It's very intimidating when you're the cause of the wipe (like when I pulled aggro off the better geared tank in Siege). Elkagorasahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16868176919786509891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-18035993966369076962015-12-22T13:27:38.215-05:002015-12-22T13:27:38.215-05:00It ties into your responsibility mention, but as a...It ties into your responsibility mention, but as a dps you don't have to show up to every raid. If you are missing your main tank it's a bigger deal. <br /><br />You also kind of touched on it in your healers section, but having to be replaced for fights that don't need another tank or healer. This is less of a thing for tanks anymore as it seems every fight is designed for two tanks now, but used to be "ohh we only need you to tank these fights the rest you can sit for."<br /><br />Having to try and gear two specs without being able to really get gear for one of them unless no one else wanted it. <br /><br />Which class you played as a tank used to matter a lot more as well. I remember during wrath being asked to switch from tank because they wanted a DK. Only to be asked to switch back for Heroic LK because druids had the highest health pools. Cainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787494494043104629noreply@blogger.com