tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post1228901127767553582..comments2024-03-29T05:19:30.673-04:00Comments on The Grumpy Elf: Is Too Much Choice a Bad Thing?TheGrumpyElfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-76933183593025011842015-07-28T08:16:46.771-04:002015-07-28T08:16:46.771-04:00I would like that Roo, but sadly it goes against w...I would like that Roo, but sadly it goes against what their design is. They want to keep you from getting that "perfect" piece so you keep playing. It is their bait, they believe people will keep trying until they get it and quit when they do, so they are trying to keep people from getting it as long as possible.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-36680773197065567522015-07-27T17:45:09.328-04:002015-07-27T17:45:09.328-04:00well, if I may add - I don't like the random a...well, if I may add - I don't like the random as I believe armor, whether crafted or drop should be for that class of toon. And the game is on a computer and an program, where it can look at what most of my gear is and drop or give me the same type - i.e. if I have mostly haste, then give me haste. Pretty simple, but Rick has it down - it's random and that gives the programmers an out, :) <br /><br />Egads, 3 beers gives me an exclusive to the game - time to play<br /><br />-roo-abhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14899567485973250660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-24213119953326282222015-07-27T13:50:54.532-04:002015-07-27T13:50:54.532-04:00Random is only consider fair by people that get th...Random is only consider fair by people that get the gear. <br /><br />Effort = Reward is fair for everyone as everyone needs to put in the same effort to get the same reward.<br /><br />So I will never, not in a million years, say that random generated gear drop, gear upgrades or gear stats is fair. Even if suddenly my luck turned for the better and I was winning everything all the time, RNG is still the worst way ever to design a reward based system.<br /><br />I do agree with you that if they want to use random they need to change random. So if you kill a boss for the 10th time without getting those tier gloves you are guaranteed to get them on kill 10. What that does is adds an effort = reward net over the RNG gear. It fixes the inherent problems with RNG, not perfect, but better than what is in place.<br /><br />I also agree, people will keep running the same bosses, because as you said, there will always be someone that needs to loot. Any good guild, even any casual guild with decent people, will have people that need nothing from the content helping those that do. Content does not automatically become useless when you have the gear you want, unless you are raiding for gear only. And who wants to raid with those selfish people anyway. :PTheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-76665140661271321632015-07-27T11:41:21.519-04:002015-07-27T11:41:21.519-04:00I don’t think this is true, I think the issue behi...I don’t think this is true, I think the issue behind this is Blizzard trying to be fair. They are constantly revamping looting and currencies in every expansion because they approached fairness in the least invasive way possible.<br /><br />Random = Fair as apposed to Effort = Reward = Fair. By making something random the developer can throw up their hands and say “its random, its out of my hands”. Everyone has the same chance, its random. But I don’t think the player base wants looting to be random. If you kill a boss 9 times looking for the tier gloves, should the 1st and 10th times have equal odds at dropping them? It behooves Blizzard to make this type of change, players expect their odds at seeing the gear go up after each kill, its called the gambler’s fallacy, and while its logically incorrect it feels correct emotionally. Each week a player see’s no loot, they become more and more frustrated. <br /><br />Quest’s where the player is tasked with collecting a number of X off mobs works like similar to this. After each mob killed the RNG equation updates. If the looted mob did not drop the quest objective the odds of the next kill dropping it increases, if it did contain the quest objective the RNG equation resets in short the solution has been in the game since vanilla. <br /><br />Blizzard does not need another level of RNG to make gear more rare to extend content. The current probably for a player not seeing ANY loot from a boss, (not factoring in if its usable or tier) is 10-33% after 10 kills. That’s why groups will be re-running the same bosses repeatedly because someone will always need a piece of loot need loot from them in even small raid groups.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05908688425325574778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-83007461780656165882015-07-27T11:05:44.119-04:002015-07-27T11:05:44.119-04:00@Anon
Tokens from dungeons that are not RNG. Sou...@Anon<br /><br />Tokens from dungeons that are not RNG. Sounds strikingly like valor. ;) I really do miss less RNG options in warcraft. Relying on RNG for gear and then RNG for stats and RNG for warforged or gem slot it just too much RNG for me.<br /><br />As you said, 48 would not be a big deal if you could pick which one to worth toward. No RNG involved. Work for it, get it. Reward for your effort instead of random stats. It is the random that make it bad, not that there are 48 of them.<br /><br />Using stamina trinkets used to be something I did all the time soloing. I used to use them all the time, had to use some PvP gear as well so my pet would not be crit while soloing.<br /><br />That was back in the day when we actually had talent trees too. Sure I would use a spec I could never use in a raid, but just like I wore the wrong gear sometimes I needed special talents or weird arrangements to get the results I wanted when soloing.<br /><br />In that case there were a lot more choices, those choices were good because I could change them as I saw fit. Sure there will always be 1 best spec for raiding back then, but having the ability, the choice if you would, to mix and match your spec was awesome in my opinion. Choice really can be good sometimes.<br /><br />I'd say they destroyed gearing in the game by leaving everything up to RNG. No other options to earn your gear, it is RNG and RNG only.<br /><br />@Casually Odd<br /><br />Another case of them talking away "fun" choices and replacing them with RNG choices.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-16593593878329311012015-07-27T10:43:46.865-04:002015-07-27T10:43:46.865-04:00I got lucky as in it did not take me that many, bu...I got lucky as in it did not take me that many, but still a fair deal. Did manage to get one of my three crafted pieces on the third try once. All others took a while.<br /><br />It is purely luck based and one hunter in my guild made himself three crafted pieces early expansion and all three rolled with the perfect stats to begin with and he did not need to change even one of them. lol How is that for luck. I wish I could borrow it with all this RNG.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-71181637998065926762015-07-27T10:41:51.925-04:002015-07-27T10:41:51.925-04:00I do understand that is why they are doing it. Th...I do understand that is why they are doing it. They had said that they want to make it harder to get BiS.<br /><br />I did no so much miss the point as I disagreed with the point. I do not like this format.<br /><br />I also do not agree with making it harder to get the gear you actually want is a decent way to extend the life of the content. Which as you mentioned, seems to be what they are trying to do.<br /><br />I am sure it works for some people, those that raid for gear only maybe. But not for me. I would rather be able to get my full BiS as quick as possible so then I could just raid for fun and not have to worry about gearing any more.<br /><br />I gear for raid, I do not raid for gear.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-62141991268944830202015-07-27T10:21:14.796-04:002015-07-27T10:21:14.796-04:00Adding an abbreviation page might not bee a bad id...Adding an abbreviation page might not bee a bad idea Roo. Should do it some day.<br /><br />They exchanged one level of complication for another. They didn't fix anything, they just relocated the problem. Standard for blizzard.<br /><br />They seem to not grasp the concept that if it is not broke, don't fix it.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-55300059985057771852015-07-27T10:18:40.821-04:002015-07-27T10:18:40.821-04:00Make content good, make content enjoyable, make co...Make content good, make content enjoyable, make content worthwhile, and it will be replayable. Add RNG for the sake of RNG and people start giving up. Which is what I have seen a lot of people do.<br /><br />I know a few people that have just stopped raiding completely. Or they only do LFR now when they want to raid. Why? Because the reward is not worth the effort. Even more so because if they get a plain piece without it being warforged or with a gem slot they feel as if they wasted their time.<br /><br />So they do not add repeatably to the content, they instead, for some, made them give up on it.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-68371087070295145922015-07-27T10:16:20.521-04:002015-07-27T10:16:20.521-04:00I think gem slots should be standard. A piece eit...I think gem slots should be standard. A piece either has them or doesn't. Gem slots are what throw off item level as sometimes lower item levels are better because of gem slots.<br /><br />I can say okay to random for warforged, that increases item level and power, so they move up together. If we have to have some random, that could be it. But random gem slots need to go.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-47808666906734672972015-07-27T10:14:44.118-04:002015-07-27T10:14:44.118-04:00That makes it even way more randomized. You could...That makes it even way more randomized. You could get one with 200 crit and 100 mutilstrike or 200 multistrike and 100 crit. If I delved into all those possibilities you are talking a difference of perhaps thousands of gear options. I did not feel like going too deep into it because none of those pieces with random stats are BiS, but as you said, I could have.<br /><br />I think that is blizzards idea, they want people to just say screw it and wear whatever they get and just be happy they got something.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-60626609070562000592015-07-27T10:12:26.593-04:002015-07-27T10:12:26.593-04:00@Calen
As a raider that gear is not an option. I...@Calen<br /><br />As a raider that gear is not an option. I already have my three crated gear and the baleful gear can and will never replace tier gear.<br /><br />So while there are other options, I am still restricted to luck and luck only. There was only one baleful piece I could make that would be an upgrade, it was a small one, but I made it and was done with T2 upgrades.<br /><br />So on my main at least, baleful gear was never needed.<br /><br />And those 695 pieces are 695, even if they are 695 warforged. Their base item level, as stated in the post, is between the range listed.<br /><br />While I do agree you do not "need" WF/GS gear, who doesn't want it? It is still the best piece for you and people want the best piece for them. Anyone that says otherwise is lying. Plain and simple.<br /><br />@Marrion<br /><br />Then what exactly is your explanation of "BiS" feeling?<br /><br />Mine is, as it says, best in slot. That means the best item that goes in that slot. A warfroged and gem slot piece of gear is BiS and as such gives that BiS feeling. Anything else is just an upgrade on my way until I get BiS. <br /><br />Is it "required" to down bosses? Not even close, you could down bosses on heroic with everyone in the group wearing only baleful item if they are goof players. Does it mean you would not want a better piece if you could get it? Nope. People like upgrades, it is what most play for.<br /><br />People do go to best in slot lists because they are easy to handle. No need to "feel" it, that is the flat out truth. People will always look for the best gear.<br /><br />Pick any game where there are randomized aspects to it. Search for the best team make up for this boss, best items for that battle, best skills for this level, best weapon for this quest, etc.<br /><br />It is human nature to see a list that says "this is best" and then try to duplicate it.<br /><br />If anything, that is the heart of warcraft and games like it. People see the best in slot as the fabled "ultimate weapon" and will keep playing until they get it. Lists telling people what weapon that is are extremely important. Making that weapon attainable is even more important, even if it takes a lot of time and effort.<br /><br />Actually, I am like you, I do not have much luck mind you, but each time I get one step closer to having that best in slot piece I am happy to get it. Like I said, even you and me (and I do not raid for gear, I gear for raid) follow those lists. Lists are good.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-47587865376821630802015-07-27T09:46:26.038-04:002015-07-27T09:46:26.038-04:00I have been over that post a hundred times in my h...I have been over that post a hundred times in my head and because of all the curse words involved I don't think I could ever write it.<br /><br />But I will try one day. It is a post that will come.<br /><br />I have often called it the feast of famine that I see with the RNG. You either win something off every coin you use that week or win nothing. And the win nothing can go on for months and months. You win gear in blocks, a lot at once and then nothing for months. I hate that, hate it with a passion.<br /><br />I would rather win one piece a week for 8 weeks than win 8 piece in one week and nothing for 7. The every week winning keeps me wanting to come back, keeps me enjoying it because I am getting stuff as I go. The 7 weeks with nothing makes me want to quit most of the time.<br /><br />Sid seems to have an idea of what I am talking about. There needs to be some sort of intelligence programmed into the game to "smooth" out the RNG. Blizzard lets it run out on its own and do whatever it wants, they need to learn to control it.<br /><br />Some people might say controlled RNG is not true RNG, but controlled RNG can, and does, keep the RNG from over rewarding and underrewarding people, which is good for the game as a whole.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-67628661318620230122015-07-27T09:41:11.435-04:002015-07-27T09:41:11.435-04:00"Gear stats are to be automatically converted..."Gear stats are to be automatically converted when you switch specs and you can only win the type of gear that your class wears.<br /><br />I miss the days of mixing equipment in all sorts of spectacular way on my feral druid."<br /><br />This drives me crazy! I used to love carrying around a set of gear to be whatever I needed to fill until we got a dedicated fill-in-the-blank. Tank drops? Bear up, switch spec, gear up, I can hold us at a slow pace for a while. Healer drops, I don't have the spec but I can probably keep us up if we are careful.<br /><br />Plus it was just fun! What a concept! Oh, nevermind, removed in 6.0Casually Oddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14127631692831609847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-11166118678371186412015-07-27T09:40:03.419-04:002015-07-27T09:40:03.419-04:00@Fiannor
I think it was intentional for us to hav...@Fiannor<br /><br />I think it was intentional for us to have an insanely low chance to get the "right" piece. It is their desire to do so. I just do not think they understood the bigger picture that we, as players, like getting that best piece once in a while. Thanks to RNG they took that away from us in many cases.<br /><br />I am like you on my horde hunter trying for BM pieces. I must have clicked on 100 pieces already. Guess how many I upgrade to 695 because they were my best stats? One.<br /><br />@Rick<br /><br />I hate rerolling those. But at least we have that option to reroll. It is something. One thing took me 25 rerolls, another 3. I hate random.<br /><br />If you had a 60 one I really feel bad for you. There was one guy in trade at the beginning of the expansion that was telling everyone his story as he went for the right stats. He was buying from everyone. Last I remembered he was up to 180 rerolls and still had not gotten his stats. I am sure he has gotten it for now. Or based on how his luck was going, he replaced it with a drop and all that work was wasted.<br /><br />I've explained before that blizzards "random" generator is not coded correctly. There has to be something wrong with it. It does not actually seem random. Or the most random you would be capable of making as true random is impossible. You need a start point to create a random number thus random in code is impossible.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-27154696295908379682015-07-27T09:29:45.374-04:002015-07-27T09:29:45.374-04:00That knowledge is a big deal really. For most pla...That knowledge is a big deal really. For most players they just play, that knowledge is nowhere to be found in game. For those that look outside all the choices just mean is clutter because we will always know what the best choice is.<br /><br />So it is lose lose. I like choice too, but in this case with so much choice it means the ones without the knowledge are more likely to make wrong choices and people with knowledge, lets face it, never have a choice to begin with, we will always look for what is best for us.<br /><br />RNG is not fun for anyone. Not sure why blizzard is hanging so much on it this expansion.<br /><br />Even people that used to fight against me when I spoke of my hate for RNG have started to turn to my side. The over use of it this expansion had shown everyone what I have been saying for years, RNG is not fun.<br /><br />If blizzard did anything right this expansion it is that. They have proved, beyond a shadow of doubt, that RNG is not compelling game play.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-68181455077430492742015-07-26T10:41:09.237-04:002015-07-26T10:41:09.237-04:00Hi Jaeger.
Thanks. I still think there should be...Hi Jaeger. <br /><br />Thanks. I still think there should be something on the right side showing that for folks who are either new or forget this. <br /><br />And no other thought about the different color armor- I did forget to add (a wonderful example of a mind that lags) there is only stats on it whatever the toon uses (str, int or agi) and health. As it gets better (goes up in color), then the extra stats are seen - haste, versatility, mastery, smack down (sorry, I forgot some of the others), etc. <br /><br />Or armor is just like heritage - once you get it, it goes up in values. All I know, is with each patch, armor/weapon numbers are climbing thru the roof like it did pre-WOD. And blizzard is there giving it out like candy. <br /><br />:-( <br /><br />-roo <i>a sad sad panda</i>-abhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14899567485973250660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-71848211170642386782015-07-26T10:27:23.836-04:002015-07-26T10:27:23.836-04:00I can only second the statement that WF/gems on d...I can only second the statement that WF/gems on dropped gear should never be considered required for the "BiS feeling"<br /><br />You can aspire to own a particular chest piece, but never that this will be warforged or having the gem slot. Trying to do that will really burn you out, because won't even feel the joy of achieving that intermediate step.<br /><br />I feel like people go with BiS lists because they are easy to handle. There's an item at the top and you can push hard (like use bonus rolls or never skip that boss) into that direction - you have a clear goal.<br />Having WF/Gems dillutes this goal quite a bit, because suddenly a normally worse piece of gear can actually be better than the one you really reach for, just because of 6 iLvl or +50 stats. <br /><br />If you're like me, just ignore all that randomness while setting your goals, but embrace any luck you encounter while climbing step by step that BiS list.Mattionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09697701554040619563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-35747490182548156112015-07-26T09:45:16.258-04:002015-07-26T09:45:16.258-04:00I would say that more choices are always better th...I would say that more choices are always better than fewer BUT only if they do not detract from each other. <br /><br />To give an example, I also play GW2 on the side and I applaud their decision to include 23 different stat combinations on maximum level equipment while keeping said stat combinations more or less equally easy/hard to acquire. Stuff is either crafted or acquired through dungeon tokens and said tokens are not RNG. You get a set amount after each run. There is a "meta" stat combination that the number crunchers go for but if I want to experiment, I can.<br /><br />48 chest pieces would be perfectly fine if you could pick which ones to work towards to. But because Blizzard decided that RNGesus shall be the playerbase's collective deity, the number of possibilities ends up frustrating people.<br /><br />It's just as heckling as no longer being able to mix and match items not designed for your class + specialization. I wanted to derp around with agility weapon and cloth spirit gear with stamina trinkets on my mistweaver monk (not in a competitive environment! just for my own amusement while doing dailies or soloing old content!) to see where I can push fistweaving but hey ho the developers seem to think that I'm a bad girl for not sticking to the status quo and as such I'm only allowed to have fun the appropriate way. Gear stats are to be automatically converted when you switch specs and you can only win the type of gear that your class wears.<br /><br />I miss the days of mixing equipment in all sorts of spectacular way on my feral druid.<br /><br />Blizzard somehow managed to change the game in a way so that it offers more choices but at the same time heavily restricts choices either through "quality of life" changes or pure RNG. I'm not sure whether I should be annoyed or amused.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-51438155000920196852015-07-25T19:50:24.727-04:002015-07-25T19:50:24.727-04:00Talking of RNG is burnt thru 60 of those engineeri...Talking of RNG is burnt thru 60 of those engineering devices until I got the stats I want on my helm and gun. There's another example of how poor this expansion is, if I can make it for myself I should get the stats I want not some random piece of crapTruwellanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11881231972481771817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-52273345575433705962015-07-25T19:40:07.325-04:002015-07-25T19:40:07.325-04:00Grumpy, i'm afraid although you are technicall...Grumpy, i'm afraid although you are technically right, you seem to have missed the point. The reason there are so many choices on gear is so that the gear you want is very difficult to get, but blizzard knows you will farm it anyway. The extra fluff stats are blizzards way of making the worst expansion in history last longer by making the gear you want less likely to drop and ensuring you take much longer to burn through the limited content.Truwellanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11881231972481771817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-76870948860042595552015-07-25T09:03:33.037-04:002015-07-25T09:03:33.037-04:00RNG is Random Number Generator.
LFR is Looking For...RNG is Random Number Generator.<br />LFR is Looking For Raid; it refers to Raid Finder.Jaegerhttps://twitter.com/makosdvnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-78365417351515327102015-07-25T06:49:08.661-04:002015-07-25T06:49:08.661-04:00what's RNG, LFR? I can't find what it stan...what's RNG, LFR? I can't find what it stands for on this page. <br /><br />Honestly GE, maybe have a side page that lists these abbreviations? Even in military documents before an abbreviation is used it is listed as for example - "Heavy Whipping Cream (HWC)" then after the first time "Heavy Whipping Cream" is used the initials "HWC" are used in it's place - like what you folks are doing. I am sure I know what it means, but truly have forgotten. <br /><br />Thanks. <br /><br />-roo<br /><br />PS - if I remember correctly, Blizzard changed every thing around on armor and wespons, dropping this stat, this gem slot, that stat to uncomplicated our gear. Now, it looks like they are going right back to the black hole of all this shyt is. I wonder if Ask Mr Robot wanting to stay in business has something to do with this or is it that 10 percent of "I'm de boss" players? I say, go back to having grey armor, green armor, blue getting from dungeons, purple from raids. And of course green armor can be great, but it needs to be able to be able to take on ALL mobs outside of dungeons and some inside of the beginning dungeons to be able to get that blue to start going inside higher level dungeons and blue to go into raiding, etc. <br /><br />as I see it, gear has become even more complicated. Oh well, what's a crazy roo to do, lol-abhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14899567485973250660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-62005092795691073112015-07-24T19:24:18.961-04:002015-07-24T19:24:18.961-04:00I would add that I suspect this system is a reacti...I would add that I suspect this system is a reaction to Siege. They always talk about it in terms of the re playability of content. If Blizzard thinks that turning loot into lottery tickets will keep players engaged in the same raid for over a year, they really don't know their customers.JC Swayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12580720277068633415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-21531933708578922842015-07-24T19:16:06.141-04:002015-07-24T19:16:06.141-04:00Right on the money Grumpy. Some RNG on gear (warfo...Right on the money Grumpy. Some RNG on gear (warforged OR gems instead of both) would still provide the re playability they want for farm bosses. As it stands, it's just too much. I don't even pay attention to tertiary stats anymore (which isn't much fun). Hopefully Blizzard will dial it back going forward. Right now the only upside is all the enchants I'm selling.JC Swayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12580720277068633415noreply@blogger.com