tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post9148522503460131527..comments2024-03-27T07:57:48.010-04:00Comments on The Grumpy Elf: PvEers: Blizzard Wants You to PvPTheGrumpyElfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-53558195836382428212013-08-27T07:13:33.359-04:002013-08-27T07:13:33.359-04:00There are many other things to do in game. I have...There are many other things to do in game. I have a few friends that are on nearly daily and do neither.<br /><br />Admittedly I do not know a great deal of them but then again I do not float in those circles as I raid. That is the same reason I do not know a great deal of serious PvPers, they are not in the same gaming circle as I am.<br /><br />I guess a lot just hang out with friends, level, do dungeons, maybe role play.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-30805041287387238672013-08-26T20:18:00.194-04:002013-08-26T20:18:00.194-04:00Problem with Blizz's numbers, ie 7% Raid and 3...Problem with Blizz's numbers, ie 7% Raid and 30& PvP is well ... what do the rest do?<br /><br />Gee, what else IS there to do besides Raid or PvP? Uh ... spam trade chat? Well, people do that anyway, regardless of whether they raid, pvp or whatever.<br /><br />P V E<br /><br />Which means ... Blizzard is pandering to the vocal minority. All because they have a PLAN.<br /><br />"If they PvP, they'll want to get into Arenas. If they get into Arenas, they'll want to get into Tournaments. If they want to get into Tournaments, they have to BUY THE TICKETS!"<br /><br />Yup, its all about GREED. It's not about making a better game or one that lasts longer. It's about GREED.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-33716354999051266842013-01-30T11:35:46.760-05:002013-01-30T11:35:46.760-05:00Have you completely lost your mind? You are sayin...Have you completely lost your mind? You are saying I want to fox news you because I want real numbers? Apparently you do not know what that means. <br /><br />Sit down and good old grumpy will teach you the difference.<br /><br />Let me explain the difference between me (real data) and you (fox news).<br /><br />You:<br />You want to count only people already 90 and on multiple character and raiding. So your numbers will be skewed as it is only asking a tiny portion of the people. Just like fox news will only ask republicans what they think about hot topics and pass it off as this is how all people think.<br /><br />Me.<br />I want to count everyone, because everyone matters even if they are not 90.<br /><br />Thinking anyone under 90 is a second class citizen or anyone not raiding does not matter just stinks of fox news mentality. If you aren't with us you are against us.<br /><br />If you want to think that the only people that matter are the people that are already 90, feel free to. <br /><br />If you want to believe that because I did something on 4 characters it should count 4 times, feel free too. <br /><br />You can play any game you want with the numbers, feel free to, but that does not make them right.<br /><br />What you are right about is saying we will never know certain numbers unless they tell us. But that does not mean we can't speculate on the numbers we do have.<br /><br />So back the beginning. The last solid number we have is 2.5M characters have finished DS in LFR.<br /><br />Now speculate. Because that is all we can do.<br /><br /><br />And I speculate that the 7% number I can swear I read somewhere even that I can not find it, seems about right when looking at the 2.5M number of people that completed it.<br /><br />At least I can reasonable explain why I believe that number, true or not.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-86332733579439867902013-01-29T20:51:16.176-05:002013-01-29T20:51:16.176-05:00if 50% of people aren't even interested in get...if 50% of people aren't even interested in getting to 90 they aren't interested in any of the things happening at 90. PVP, raiding, daily's, farm, that's why its good to not wring your hands over subscribers. if 50% of the population is happy just questing then they should just spend there time making more and more quests (which arguably they probably do IE expansions) My point is since you don't know and can't know one of the numbers you need to find out the % of subscribers that raid unless blizzard gives you that # which they haven't it is of no use to make up a # use real data and real #'s to make up your arguments. Don't fox news us. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-81669157208261150072013-01-29T10:44:59.540-05:002013-01-29T10:44:59.540-05:00That would work in the effort of interest, but it ...That would work in the effort of interest, but it would also be an amazingly high number.<br /><br />I have 7 max level characters, only 4 have done raid finder, the others might get there some day, but that would mean me alone would unbalance the results.<br /><br />I would not be surprised if the number of characters that did raid finder at max level is at or close to 50%. But that would not even be remotely close to anything accurate.<br /><br />Remember, less than half the subscribers even had a max level character at the end of cataclysm. So if less then 50% have a max level character it is impossible for 50% to have finished the raid.<br /><br />It would still be an interesting number to see. But I want to see subscribers. Characters do not matter, people like me screw up those numbers, sorry. Subscribers do matter when taking about who they should aim content at.<br /><br />Even if I dislike PvP, subscriber wise, that is where they should focus. I might not like it, but I can understand it.<br /><br />Just because I like to raid doesn't mean I think everything should be designed for me. A very small percentage raid and a very small percentage of development should be spent on it because of that.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-68579442895552313662013-01-28T18:01:58.334-05:002013-01-28T18:01:58.334-05:00If you want a better # you could probably get from...If you want a better # you could probably get from mmo champs the amount of level 90 characters since that's a known quantity thanks to the armory. then divided how many characters have completed raid finder by the amount of level 90 characters. This has the quality that dividing characters by characters instead of characters by subscribers ( I know you were dividing characters by characters but you were using a made up # before hand that is of no use to us when trying to think about these things. now you will have an accurate % of all level 90 characters. I know your more interested in subscribers let me posit this when talking about raiding do the subscribers that wont ever max a character really matter? I actuality think a this % of level 90 characters # would be of more use because its going to already remove the people that have no interest in ever getting max level and doing end game things by not precluding these non max level subscribers we would be working with another # that doesn't really mean anything. more to your point if you said X % of level 90 characters have completed raid finder by putting that level 90 part in you make the reader switch to thinking about characters and not subscribers. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-52732766410743670742013-01-28T14:21:49.487-05:002013-01-28T14:21:49.487-05:00Find it or not, it is now old data that is out of ...Find it or not, it is now old data that is out of date.<br /><br />We need new data. Until we have new data, that is all I have to roll with sadly.<br /><br />And saying 2.5 million characters gives the FALSE impression that 25% of the player base has done it.<br /><br />My 7%, even if I can not find it, is more accurate then letting people believe 25% of the player base did it. <br /><br />Even if I read or remember wrong, saying I "read 7% somewhere" is a lot better then having to explain that 2.5M characters does not mean 2.5M subscribers every time I posted it for people that can not understand there is a huge difference between characters and subscribers. <br /><br />What would you believe 2.5M characters means subscriber wise? Not asking for facts, just opinion.<br /><br />If neither of us can find numbers, that is all we have to go on now as that seems to be all we can agree with being said.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-29021839663592051752013-01-28T11:39:05.829-05:002013-01-28T11:39:05.829-05:00I'd suggest if you can't find it then you ...I'd suggest if you can't find it then you need to stop using it. Instead say something like only 2.5 million characters have completed it. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-62472101298565429322013-01-28T11:35:20.818-05:002013-01-28T11:35:20.818-05:00@James - Why yes!
@Grump - Hot dang, you read me...@James - Why yes! <br /><br />@Grump - Hot dang, you read me mind....<br /><br />"Someone swiped a female sheep<br />They couldn’t find a clue,<br />So the Night Elf bought another one<br />And gave his I. O. Ewe."<br /><br />-roo -abhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14899567485973250660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-73548123740033020362013-01-28T07:42:51.342-05:002013-01-28T07:42:51.342-05:00I agree James. But I still think you have to enjo...I agree James. But I still think you have to enjoy PvP at least to some extent to gear up that way. Sure it can be done much easier than raiding but if you don't like doing it how long do you think people will put up with it before they just say screw it and quit?<br /><br />I do not know the RBG numbers but I would guess you are raid. RBGs are like raids for PvPers, and I am sure there are a lot less of them.<br /><br />To Roo's defense a little.<br /><br />There is a lot to the game you do not need anyone for. It is actually some of the most relaxing stuff to do also. Solo player games have much more success than multi player games and that is for that exact reason. Warcraft would do well to take a page out of that book and keep things more solo based with the option of group content. I think it would be best for them in terms of growth.<br /><br />I know that if I needed to be grouped 24/7 when I played I would have never made it to level 10. I would have quit. I do not play games to make friends, I play game to play games. Group content is optional.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-90931160728853361742013-01-28T07:37:41.202-05:002013-01-28T07:37:41.202-05:00I can not find it either.
You can feel free to di...I can not find it either.<br /><br />You can feel free to disagree and disbelieve me if you wish. I know that 7% is accurate because I have been talking about it here since the day ghostcrawler posted it. I even had a post saying how I did not believe the 7% number and thought it was a lot less.<br /><br />The only solid number I could find is him saying that 2.5M characters finished the LFR. Now that might be 25% of the player base IF everyone had one character, but people like me that completed it on 11 characters throws that number off completely. Heck, in my guild alone there are at least 5 players that completed it on at 8 or more characters.<br /><br />So even if that number is all you have, that means 2.5M characters, NOT subscribers, finished looking for raid.<br /><br />Being that is the only number I can find you decided what they means. I will think of it as the average player completed DS LFR on 3 characters, which means 8.3%. So even at a complete guess, 7% seems reasonable.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-71589897246644211642013-01-28T07:29:32.492-05:002013-01-28T07:29:32.492-05:00Why? Because I like to have everyone raid ready, ...Why? Because I like to have everyone raid ready, so if a pug pops up, I have characters that can run it. If we need another tank or healer or whatever for a second group, I have one ready. So when I want to play I am ready to play.<br /><br />I don't want to have to do the build up all over again and waste time just to catch up to being able to play. I see no reason to add a second tier of leveling. Level 1-90 then level in gear? Nope, I just want to be ready to play when I reach the end level.<br /><br />I do not mind a grind or a week or so, but if you really will still need to work reputation and work random drops, etc, it could take weeks, even a month or more to gear an alt to catch up and that is if you are lucky.<br /><br />I do not level a character to get to 90 and do nothing because I do not have time to do that all again on an alt.<br /><br />I love mists, do not get my wrong. I think the expansion was designed for people like me in mind, people with a fair amount of free time to give us things to keep us busy.<br /><br />I do not mind the weeks of grinding on my main. I do not want to have to do that on every single character I bring up however. <br /><br />If my character needs a lock I want to be able to level my lock this weekend and be raid ready on tuesday. I do not want it to be a major long process because it is an alt. It should not be one.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-48197539929827829422013-01-28T05:37:55.619-05:002013-01-28T05:37:55.619-05:00@Grumpy It's not just the reward for failure t...@Grumpy It's not just the reward for failure thing. You can do pvp at any level, unlike raiding, it doesn't take long (usually a lot less than a LFR) and you don't have to get involved with other people. It doesn't require much, either, to do a battleground. No item level, no one will laugh at your dps. Sure, there'll be rage for mistakes, but that happens everywhere. I think most raiders also pvp, at least for the achievements. How many pvp-ers do RBGs though? Should be a lot less than raiders.<br /><br />@Roo What would the game be without raids? Kill the big bad in some dungeons or in some quest, on your own?Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18173436197557929355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-63462479692309421512013-01-28T05:17:06.111-05:002013-01-28T05:17:06.111-05:00The rep on gear requirement was announced on 1/10 ...The rep on gear requirement was announced on 1/10 and the 458 one on 2/10.<br /><br />My question is - why hurry up with gear? PvP one week and get all geared up in 476 for? <br />You know why I find this odd? Becuase if we need a new player for our normal / heroic raids, we get them all the crafted gear, run them through LFR once and then gear them up in the actual raid. We're doing that right now actually - we lost our mage so we're making gear for one of the guildies (was lvl 78 yesterday) so she can take the mage spot immediately. From this pov, a new 90 is raid ready in a couple of hours, while not really sure how long it would take if doing it only through pvp.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18173436197557929355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-58486681771670412662013-01-28T02:11:10.648-05:002013-01-28T02:11:10.648-05:00I can't seem to find any posts to back up your...I can't seem to find any posts to back up your numbers at all and I've been looking. Please post a link. In fact I remember seeing posts from GC saying that LFR participation was a lot larger then what your claiming here of course I can't find them either which is why I'm super curios to see where your getting your data. I can't find anything backing up your 7% at the end of cata BTW. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-17903566260258197562013-01-27T10:18:52.484-05:002013-01-27T10:18:52.484-05:00I don't see how that's possible. Maybe 30...I don't see how that's possible. Maybe 30% of players with a max lvl toon tried LFR in Cata.<br /><br />I remember seeing a post that a large portion of players don't even have max level characters.<br /><br />If we look at RealmPop for the US (it's biased to auctioneers/guilds so the it probably overestimates the % of higher lvls a little bit), there are just under 1.7M lvl 90 characters. If there are 2.5M subscribers in the US, that's 68% having a max lvl toon. That's not considering people like Grumpy who have 6 max lvl toons... Let's say the average is only 2 max lvl toons per player, then only 34% of players have max lvl toons and I doubt that every single one of them runs LFR.<br /><br />PvP can be done at any lvl. Raiding is max lvl only, so just because of that it will be significantly less popular than PvP.Jaegernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-40943381887919069432013-01-27T10:01:36.360-05:002013-01-27T10:01:36.360-05:00you hit the nail on the head - if only 30% pvp and...you hit the nail on the head - if only 30% pvp and 7% raid, why in sam hill is blizzard with 5.2 going crazy and forcing me (one of the 70%) to PVP? And for raiding, why does it seem that Blizzard is creating new end game for that 7% and not for the other 93%? (If that 7% left the game, it would not be a big lost.). I tell ya why - because that 30% or 7% are the loudest. Here, have some Gouda and wheat thin crackers with it. <br /><br />Yeah, I woke up on the wrong side of my floor this morning.<br /><br />-roo <i>"Thats not peachy! Stoopnocracy is peachy!"</i>-abhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14899567485973250660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-80426386237811599302013-01-27T09:19:31.991-05:002013-01-27T09:19:31.991-05:00Added note. MMO champion can only post data they ...Added note. MMO champion can only post data they collect. Sites like wow-progress and guild ox, etc.<br /><br />Those are completely and totally inaccurate ways to judge. Those sites only have people listed who have searched for their characters or guilds. <br /><br />I had many level 85s that were no where to be found on those sites.<br /><br />So if their number was 30% finished it on LFR that means 30% of people that searched for themselves or their guild, not 30% of the level 85s.<br /><br />At the moment I have 2 level 90s that are not listed on either of those sites, so they would not be included, does what they do count any more or and less because of it? No.<br /><br />Those stats are inaccurate, the numbers ghostcrawler quoted himself hold a great deal more weight than those. So live by his 7% and not MMOs 30%.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-15997380941798414052013-01-27T09:14:08.669-05:002013-01-27T09:14:08.669-05:00I get it from ghostcrawler.
He said toward the en...I get it from ghostcrawler.<br /><br />He said toward the end of cata that 7% of max level characters have at least finished the LFR version of dragon soul and called that a great success.<br /><br />I don't know about you, but when less then 50% of people even have max level characters, and when people like myself had over 10 that did it, and he is only saying 7% of max level characters finished it on its lowest level, that would have to mean less then 3% actually raid.<br /><br />I just say 7% to be generous. It is not a made up number however, it is the next ghostcrawler said himself.<br /><br />If you think the number is wrong, complain to him, not me.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-11600369638638594902013-01-27T08:27:22.822-05:002013-01-27T08:27:22.822-05:00Where do you get your "7% of people raid incl...Where do you get your "7% of people raid including Lfr" pretty sure I've seen dev posts that its much higher. A quick google search had mmo champs showing 30% of people did dragon soul Lfr and that was published just a few months after Lfr was released... Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-13803159445581792022013-01-26T21:01:30.027-05:002013-01-26T21:01:30.027-05:00I think one of the reasons that PvP is so big in t...I think one of the reasons that PvP is so big in the game is that it rewards failure. You can get great gear even if you are bad. Hence the reason 30% PvP and only 7% raid, even at its easiest level. People like that they do not need to be good to get gear.<br /><br />So with that said, they would need to make it that you need to win to get points to buy gear in PvP and that would DESTROY participation in PvP because most people like the catch up mechanic that even if you are not good you can still gear up, even if it is slower.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-72188109073464984252013-01-26T19:06:56.715-05:002013-01-26T19:06:56.715-05:00That's the thing. Blizz would have to balance...That's the thing. Blizz would have to balance it so that it's not easier to get gear one way or the other. <br /><br />They'd also have to go with all gear being crafted/purchased so that it was balanced. You don't loot other players to get epics... :)<br /><br />I'd really like to see a survey when I logged in asking for my opinions about these things in the game. Make it a meaningful survey that takes a few minutes to fill out and give everyone a pet for answering the survey to encourage as many people as possible to answer the questions and then publish the results. Let's see what the community really has to say. Because I really don't think Blizzard knows what their player base would really like. Only so much can be gleaned from the vocal minority on the forums and from in-game statistics. I mean they say that only a small portion of players even have max level characters, let alone do rated pvp or raid...Jaegernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-80291564222331568152013-01-26T14:57:57.728-05:002013-01-26T14:57:57.728-05:00The stat increases are a little insane, make that ...The stat increases are a little insane, make that a lot insane. One one character I went into a dungeon as soon as I hit 90 and did 20K, came out and got a few 450 pieces, which were not a huge upgrade at all, and did another and did 35K. All for such a tiny stat allotment. Things are completely out of control and out of line stat wise in my opinion.<br /><br />Nice ideas PvP anon, will have to try to remember those.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-60847894897727587052013-01-26T14:56:08.743-05:002013-01-26T14:56:08.743-05:00I agree. Not sure I like the idea of different ge...I agree. Not sure I like the idea of different gear, never have really. It makes no sense but I guess that it because they do not want to mix things so PvPers feel the need they have to PvE and the same the other way around.<br /><br />They also know that if they made it all the same, they would be giving people a super easy route to gear for PvE. No need to down bosses, go into a few battle grounds and tada, you have all the BiS raid gear if they were all the same gear.<br /><br />People on the forums would cry like babies because they will not be "special" any more because they got their raid gear in a raid because someone got it from PvPing which is a lot easier to gear up in.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-34604588502807385132013-01-26T14:48:44.741-05:002013-01-26T14:48:44.741-05:00I think their reasoning is that at last report onl...I think their reasoning is that at last report only 7% raided, including LFR and over 30% PvP. So they figure that PvP is a more popular thing and if people like it more maybe making a few more people test the waters might make even more people happy.<br /><br />While I do not like PvP really myself I see why they work toward that. If you own a business with many people doing many things, where you you put your effort most? Keeping 7% of them happy or keeping 30% of them happy? Amusing that you can not do both all the time of course.<br /><br />I do like to PvP sometimes, but I do not like feeling as if I have to.<br /><br />For me they made 2 errors here. 1) I PvP when I am done doing all my PvE stuff. I play A LOT and I am not even close to finished with my PvE stuff, I could imagine 90% or more of the population is in the same boat. I like having content but this is a little much. I can't PvP when I have other things to do. 2) PvP is such a rude atmosphere, and they do nothing to stop these people from insulting everyone that does not do things their way. It is bad in random PvE content, very bad, but it is 100 times worse in PvP. Why would anyone want to be part of that environment?<br /><br />As for the farm, have not heard yet. I too and interested to see what it will be.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.com