tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post9083567305245901085..comments2024-03-18T02:52:51.478-04:00Comments on The Grumpy Elf: Historical Revisionism: The Wrath Time Walker DungeonsTheGrumpyElfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-18395346081637612922015-07-31T07:35:44.396-04:002015-07-31T07:35:44.396-04:00I had better luck with wrath on release than with ...I had better luck with wrath on release than with cataclysm at release. Probably for two reasons. One was I was not 80 the first day of wrath, wasn't 80 for a month as I was not an active player at the time. So I did not get that first day feeling. And the second being that in wrath I assembled the group, in cataclysm I randomed into the group. This means my wrath group was a group I could talk to, my cataclysm group was a go go go group. Team work always makes things easier.<br /><br />Halls of lightning was a nightmare, that last boss could kill even a solid group unless they had a god like healer.<br /><br />When you had a group with everyone doing 4K then wrath dungeons got so much easier. But I still wiped more than a few times in those when people had good numbers.<br /><br />The sad part is people do not remember it used to be hard. All they remember is going through at the end of the expansion when even poor players could do 5K and the good players were doing 15K or more. For dungeons that required a minimum of 1K, no wonder they were easier with those numbers. But yes, on occasion, there were still wipes even then.<br /><br />The problem with cataclysm on release was everyone went into them with end of wrath mentality and we died left and right. Those beams on clorlia (name?) where people had to step in and out seemed to always be a wipe fest. Maybe it was just me, but it seemed at least 50% of the time when I got into that one no one except me knew how to work a beam.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-36156674479847794772015-07-30T21:48:52.204-04:002015-07-30T21:48:52.204-04:00Im late to the party. I missed the Wrath Timewalke...Im late to the party. I missed the Wrath Timewalker dungeons, had to work that weekend.<br /><br />However, this post lets me live them vicariously a little bit.<br /><br />Grumpy, your stories are awesome and i agree with you on almost all points, except I think the Wrath Dungeons were harder at release than the Cata dungeons.<br /><br />Wrath heroics freaking sucked. It was months before my guild group was even able to do Halls of Lightning. When Cata came out, I was admittedly a much better player, but I cleared all of them with LFD groups with only a few wipes to learn them.<br /><br />Wrath was a god damn nightmare. I remember breaking 2k dps. I remember the dps desperately trying to stem the tide of adds in Violet Hold. I remember getting one shotted by that Rhino charge. I remember fucking up the LoS pulls in Pinnacle and the wipes. I remember dying to the little plant guys in Nexus because we couldnt kill them fast enough to move and they would respawn. And then I remember getting some naxx gear and being a god in those wrath heroics that could pull a mighty 4k. My volley spam destroyed all!<br /><br />Cata dungeons: Oh, look a healer mod, guess Ill brush off the old freeze trap, "Hey guys, single target, no aoe" = perfect run.<br /><br />Troutmonkeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01862533672429720139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-37404524078692980912015-07-27T10:55:52.470-04:002015-07-27T10:55:52.470-04:00It is about noticing the packs and what to expect ...It is about noticing the packs and what to expect of them. As you said, you noticed which packs take forever to kill, so you adjusted. Some tanks in randoms do not notice things like that. They just pull pull pull and blame everyone else when things go wrong.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-73407554285874913722015-07-27T10:54:41.870-04:002015-07-27T10:54:41.870-04:00And the group as a whole.
An amazing healer can k...And the group as a whole.<br /><br />An amazing healer can keep tanks up for a lot longer then they should survive. Fantastic DPS can kill things fast enough to ease the pain on the tank and the work on a healer.<br /><br />But over all, the tank still needs to know if he has a group behind him that can handle the pull. As someone who enjoys tanking, I make an effort to try to only pull what I believe my group can handle.<br /><br />But sometimes, for fun, I too go crazy, but only with guild mates and I warn them what is coming.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-56988883996347228752015-07-26T06:51:25.192-04:002015-07-26T06:51:25.192-04:00@Grumpy: I can never understand overpulling. I cam...@Grumpy: I can never understand overpulling. I came in during Cata and I play tanks because of short queues. I recall some dungeons having trash that were so bad that downing one group takes quite a bit of effort. From then on, I told myself to never pull multiple groups of trash ever.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-74074741570504673902015-07-26T06:48:03.995-04:002015-07-26T06:48:03.995-04:00@Grumpy: Overpulling tanks wipe groups. The chance...@Grumpy: Overpulling tanks wipe groups. The chances of the group wiping on overpulling depend on how tightly tuned the dungeon was.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-34776492304907128502015-07-23T07:43:41.467-04:002015-07-23T07:43:41.467-04:00It seemed like a lot of the tanks I got seemed eit...It seemed like a lot of the tanks I got seemed either clueless or stuck with the end of wrath mentality too.<br /><br />It seems a great deal of new player came in after wrath. Honestly I am surprised when I really shouldn't be as I am always getting new raiders that just started in the last few expansion. But it amazed me that if I had to guess more than half the people I ran into were not playing in wrath.<br /><br />Sounds like you had the same tank I had. I wonder how many other people got the same thing, pulling the boss with all the trash.<br /><br />It seemed to me, for the most part, when you had a solid tank that knew what he was doing they were super easy. When you had a tank that just wanted to chain pull everything, like they were lead to believe they could, you had troubles.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-63305544430310774152015-07-22T16:02:38.594-04:002015-07-22T16:02:38.594-04:00I had some not great experiences doing the Time Wa...I had some not great experiences doing the Time Walker stuff. <br /><br />I was mostly healing it on my druid. I know the dungeons cold: I have Glory of the Hero and I got it when it was relevant. I've tanked and healed and DPS'd all of this stuff.<br /><br />So I zone in and invariably I'd have a tank who was clueless. I didn't know till last weekend that so many people never played during Litch King times. And that's fine, but no one wanted to listen to me.<br /><br />That first boss in HOL is like a moron check. If you want to see if someone actually LOOKS at de-buffs, that's the guy. After wiping twice from a tank who pulled all the trash up to the boss (seriously? Did he think someone else would tag it?) I said to him look at the buff...<br /><br />The trash further in was also fun. The whirling guys, the ones who stun. yeah pull it all at once!<br /><br />I'm not sure I'll do these again except in a group of friends and guildmates. The 150 gold repair bill was just silly. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-11493412058369636332015-07-22T07:18:24.521-04:002015-07-22T07:18:24.521-04:00When I leveled if I over pulled, I died. I think ...When I leveled if I over pulled, I died. I think there needs to be more of that in game. Recently when leveling thought FF 14 I experienced that. It was easy to over pull, even when pulling mobs back or trying to LoS them, you could very easily over pull.<br /><br />I believe it makes people better players when there are limits to what they can handle and they have to learn them. This blow everything up with no worries of over pulling sucks. Remember merloc back in the day? On mistake and you were doing a corpse run. They had pats, they came in groups, they ran when low, they feared, they were in heavily populated areas. Now that is how gaming should be.<br /><br />I still say people should learn while leveling. To me or you, maybe being we know what to do it seems like nothing, but to someone that has no clue, I am sure they can still over pull and die now. Because they do not know what they are doing. We might not die while leveling any more, but we are not new.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-65494966263094464132015-07-22T06:38:54.269-04:002015-07-22T06:38:54.269-04:00Everything dies so easily now. I learned in dungeo...Everything dies so easily now. I learned in dungeons though, not while leveling. Scarlet monastery, I think. In the open world there aren't many corners and no fear of getting feared into a wipe or overpulling. Even less so if you level as a tank, since you're pretty much immortal. Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18173436197557929355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-20049097280914678352015-07-21T13:01:16.073-04:002015-07-21T13:01:16.073-04:00As time goes on and the new people learn them we w...As time goes on and the new people learn them we will not even see those beginning wipes. Just the way things are. If people know everything it is easy, if they don't it is hard.<br /><br />I don't mind having the throwback to the past but over all I agree, it really is not a major draw for me and surely is not something that would keep me coming back for more.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-18845689940572638612015-07-21T12:59:23.527-04:002015-07-21T12:59:23.527-04:00I really enjoyed doing them again. Even when ther...I really enjoyed doing them again. Even when there were no funny parts the memories were nice.<br /><br />Forgot about the fish too, almost had a couple of people get eaten by those bad boys in gundrak. Luckily as a hunter I've never had to worry. I disengage over them completely.<br /><br />Good times for sure.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-19934681238946572992015-07-21T12:48:46.410-04:002015-07-21T12:48:46.410-04:00My luck is horrible.
And we majorly over gear the...My luck is horrible.<br /><br />And we majorly over gear them. We are doing end of wrath numbers, in some cases more, so of course they have the potential to be easy. As long as you do not get tanks like I did.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-71722476780321739382015-07-21T12:47:39.282-04:002015-07-21T12:47:39.282-04:00It is great, glad he got a chance to experience it...It is great, glad he got a chance to experience it for the first time with friends.<br /><br />You should point out to him that actually this was much much much easier than they were on release.<br /><br />It is amazing how people kept up the mantra that wrath dungeons were easy. It was like they had selective memory or something.<br /><br />One of my favorite, back originally, was with a gnome DK that was completely lost on what to do. He was a DPS, not a tank, but all he did the entire fight was drop death and decay and auto attack. He did manage 400 DPS however, but we got a kick out of him. He looked like he was having so much fun. He would make a long running start into the pack of mobs the tank had, drop D&D at his feet and then run away.<br /><br />Not sure why I loved it so much. Most times people hate players like that, but I loved him. Someone wanted to kick him but I said, no let him say, I like him. Of course this was late in the expansion and we really did not need his DPS, but he was entertaining.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-7001738292970957722015-07-21T12:11:13.555-04:002015-07-21T12:11:13.555-04:00My experience was like gnomecore in that it was du...My experience was like gnomecore in that it was dull overall but different in that it they were often full of a fair amount of wipes in the the start of each run.<br /><br />Overall, I give it a solid meh.<br /><br />I'll try them again but the fundamentals of what time walking is, just don't interest me.Casually Oddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14127631692831609847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-34287469678141822062015-07-21T12:03:37.642-04:002015-07-21T12:03:37.642-04:00My experience was closer to Anon's than yours....My experience was closer to Anon's than yours. I didn't get around to doing any Timewalking till last night (maybe everyone learned the fights over the weekend?). UP and Gundrak. The tank got himself killed on the drake boss, and everyone else but me ended up dead, but he was at about 4% by then and I was able to burn him down before he killed me. Everything else went pretty smoothly.<br /><br />I had a great time, I only wish I had gotten started sooner so I could have done more. Brought back some fond memories, those were my first dungeons.Jarnownoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-30799154421846733522015-07-21T11:28:36.081-04:002015-07-21T11:28:36.081-04:00Your luck is as bad in finding random groups as it...Your luck is as bad in finding random groups as it is in getting drops. I did 5 on my mage and 5 on my DK, all through the group finder with no friends or guildies. I don't remember a single wipe - no CC, no coordination, just burn stuff down. Wrath dungeons really were as easy and straight forward as most people remember them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-1064350192890470202015-07-21T11:15:26.646-04:002015-07-21T11:15:26.646-04:00Boy, did i have a laugh reading your experiences, ...Boy, did i have a laugh reading your experiences, it sure did bring me back memory lane. My runs went smoothly because we were all guildies and raiders. 4 of us were veterans plus a friend as a tank that started playing in MoP. We didint use much CC because we all knew what we were doing but the fun part was the awe of the tank since he never did some of those dungeons, even in leveling mode. <br />"This boss used to be a wipe fest" <br />"WOOW he does so much damage! Was this normal back then?"<br />"Careful with this adds, don't pull more than 1 pack or we will die"<br />"WOOW really? You can die from adds here??"<br /><br />He was so innocent about the whole thing, was so funnyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-75527966867797327232015-07-21T11:11:41.668-04:002015-07-21T11:11:41.668-04:00I don't really know.
I know I learned while...I don't really know. <br /><br />I know I learned while leveling when I leveled. Even when I level now I already know so it is hard to say where I would learn it.<br /><br />However, if I had to make up a situation where one might learn it, here is one.<br /><br />There is a caster mob you want to kill, if you run up to it you might pull another 4 or 5 mobs, but if you hit it with a ranged ability and get behind a rock it will come to you and you can kill it without pulling more mobs.<br /><br />Now, that fits for every single class in the game. Not just tanks. Every class in the game should know things like that, but for a tank, it is part of the job description.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-35609942993230854022015-07-21T11:06:49.932-04:002015-07-21T11:06:49.932-04:00So where exactly would you need/learn to los while...So where exactly would you need/learn to los while leveling to 100 nowadays?<br />Los, kiting and other slang are not needed leveling and you don't suddenly learn the terms. Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18173436197557929355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-5045333307826173552015-07-21T11:04:42.786-04:002015-07-21T11:04:42.786-04:00I admired those old school tanks. The ones that k...I admired those old school tanks. The ones that knew the way the pats went, knew how to line of sight pull, the ones that put up the kill order on the next pack while you were still killing this pack.<br /><br />And one of the key things I do that I learned from them that I do not see other tanks do often, if at all, is I wait for my group. If we are skipping a pack I just do not run past it waiting for them to come. I run up, stand and wait, until everyone has made it past safe and sound, then I move on. Now that is what a real tank does.<br /><br />It is amazing looking back at the tanks I first ran with, the ones I learned from, and seeing that none of that stuff really seems to matter any more.<br /><br />But when I am in a random and I see a tank do things like waiting for everyone to pass, or pulling back mobs, or marking targets, I always shoot them a whisper when it is over saying thank you for the nice run.<br /><br />I have a great respect for "real" tanks. I have no respect for the modern looking for group tanks.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-4889469650303715952015-07-21T11:00:05.337-04:002015-07-21T11:00:05.337-04:00As an American I can say, with full faith in the f...As an American I can say, with full faith in the fact it is true, many American players are jerks.<br /><br />I think I would enjoy your smooth professional attitude runs a lot better than the mouthy ego driven randoms I see people have in the US.<br /><br />I have a saying, which seems to usually be true most of the time for random groups. The person that speaks the most in the group is usually the worst player.<br /><br />Can I come to your realm? lolTheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-71475214955618705822015-07-21T10:22:48.602-04:002015-07-21T10:22:48.602-04:00I always liked the old dungeons where you actually...I always liked the old dungeons where you actually had to think and maybe CC even on trash. It was funny how one of the problems with older dungeons was you basically wanted all your dps to have CC but back then only a few classes did. Then they gave basically every class CC eventually and took away the need to ever use it. I loved tanking back then when you could show you knew how to tank instead of just run in and spam your aoe ability. Kill orders, cc targets, learning how to pull certain packs and what patrolling packs to watch out for. Actually had a need for marking so much that the main marks were keybound (after they added that to the game). Glad you enjoyed some laughs this weekend. Cainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787494494043104629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-77245576868702972182015-07-21T10:16:26.562-04:002015-07-21T10:16:26.562-04:00Idk, it seems all the described fails and wipes ar...Idk, it seems all the described fails and wipes are about poor tanking. Which is true for every dungeon, not exactly Timewalking. <br /><br />My experience is dull. LFG, then without saying a word in chat save voice chat, pug effectively swipes out everything in a dungeon (usually without deaths) and leaves. <br /><br />That's the style we normally do dungeons in russian language realms. So I didn't notice any difference between doing wrath timewalking and wrath while leveling.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com