tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post855055136105308913..comments2024-03-29T05:19:30.673-04:00Comments on The Grumpy Elf: A Few Words About MovementTheGrumpyElfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-18890151851223540932014-09-22T10:44:11.298-04:002014-09-22T10:44:11.298-04:00You make a great point. The classes as they stand...You make a great point. The classes as they stand now are designed around having a certain degree of moment. With the changes they are not exactly working as they should because they were designed for movement and no longer have it. Nicely said.<br /><br />I was going to mention that the being OP while standing still part will not work. Heroic guilds, world first guilds, etc, will stack that class and just tell healers to heal them through it so they get to be OP all the time. That is why I think it is bad design and it seems you agree.<br /><br />The slowness of it is why I never liked it. I love the fast placed game play of hunters that moving to a lock really felt like I was waiting forever for my nuke to go off. So I can see what you mean by not wanting it to be even slower. I would go insane if that were my main and they wanted to do that to me.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-10560044016710855232014-09-21T23:36:06.781-04:002014-09-21T23:36:06.781-04:00Long time warlock here. I played before move and c...Long time warlock here. I played before move and cast was an option, so I do I know how to stand still and play. But for warlocks, these changes are disastrous. Why? 1. Destro (and other specs) were redesigned around movement in MoP. Our resource generation depends on it. If they want to take away movement, then give us back our Cata rotations and I'm fine with it. As I said, I know how to handle a non-moving caster,<br />this isn't one. As currently designed, it's a joke. <br />2. Casters generally have instant procs, DoTs and things to cast while moving. Destro currently has none. My Shadowpriest has plenty to cast while moving if I talent her correctly, and I do for fights where there is high movement. My mage has procs and instants. My warlock has --- virtually nothing. They could balance our damage so that standing still we are so OP that it evens out dps-wise, but that is not good game design, nor is it what most locks are concerned with. We don't need to be OP sometimes and useless the rest. Playstyle and good design are our concern, not numbers.<br />3. Destro locks are not a spammy class. Our nukes are already slow and timed around procs. Our best damage comes when we plan our use of cleaves and executes. Playing slower is not something we really need.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-10522190114664536682014-09-19T13:50:19.803-04:002014-09-19T13:50:19.803-04:00I disagree. You can stand still for "split s...I disagree. You can stand still for "split seconds" and take the damage to get the numbers out. As a matter of fact many guilds let their casters stand in stuff, within reason, and leave it to the healer to heal them. <br /><br />If you stutter step between casts it is not a problem at all. Remember, as a hunter I am (was) well versed in stutter stepping and not clipping auto shots. Difficult, no, annoying as hell, yes. So casters are more annoying to play, but being annoying to play land locked is not harder. <br /><br />Moving is harder for one reason and one reason only. Because not many have learned how to do it, that is why they are so bad at it. <br /><br />I would be willing to bet money in real life that you let mages, locks, shadow priests, boomies, elementals cast everything while moving but told them they could not stop moving that their DPS would drop drastically. As in less than 50% of what they were doing.<br /><br />Then after seeing that try to tell me doing a rotation, following priorities, reacting to procs, ground effect, cool downs, trinkets, mechanics, etc all while moving constantly is easier. <br /><br />In the end it will always be a matter of perspective. I see how easy I do it and then see how bad others are while trying to do it, so in my mind it shows it is harder than just standing still. You are just looking at it from the caster perspective, so you think that is harder. It is human nature to believe what you do is harder than what other people do. Not just in game but in life.<br /><br />So perhaps we are both wrong and both right. But I'll still say my little test would prove I am right. ;)TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-54316801404880833772014-09-19T13:26:26.314-04:002014-09-19T13:26:26.314-04:00I only recently started druid healing for the firs...I only recently started druid healing for the first time since wrath, my heal set is 528, fear me, but I love being able to jump around as a tree while healing and I can't believe they are already taking that away from me.<br /><br />Lucky is not the word. If I spec BM I can just let my pet auto and myself auto attack and probably still be top 5 in damage done in an LFR. I think auto shots hit for way to much for a set it and forget it thing. The damage from them should be greatly lowered and the damage from shot increased. My opinion only of course, some hunters would kill me for saying that. lol<br /><br />Yes, I am hardcore. Sucks for healing however as I use my house to heal with mouse overs and end up having to move with my keys and because I am not used to it I always end up turned around and running the the wrong direction. :PTheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-55252888051386824682014-09-19T12:59:36.095-04:002014-09-19T12:59:36.095-04:00I am a relic. :(
Do you know how hard it is to fi...I am a relic. :(<br /><br />Do you know how hard it is to find a new mouse when mine dies? It is a freaking nightmare.<br /><br />Absolutely questing can be great practice for stuff like that. Just keep killing and moving, because, well, that is what we do. TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-87593235532777923252014-09-19T11:20:31.539-04:002014-09-19T11:20:31.539-04:00The skill cap on being landlocked while still need...The skill cap on being landlocked while still needing to move regularly is even higher than the skill cap when you can use any ability while moving. You say it won't have any effect on casters, yet you gave up your lock because Chaos Bolt required you to work it around movement. The game doesn't have patchwerk fights anymore where you stand still for the whole fight and perform your rotation, so comparing hunters to that and saying it's a higher skill cap doesn't mean anything. No matter what you are going to have to move at some point, so it takes more skill to deal with that if you can't cast while moving. You can prefer being able to always move on your hunters, I know I did because it was easier, but you can't argue it takes more skill.Cainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787494494043104629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-27126252174173068062014-09-19T05:17:04.860-04:002014-09-19T05:17:04.860-04:00Even my druid is going to be landlocked a little b...Even my druid is going to be landlocked a little bit! Casting time on Wild Growth oh my goodness. But it will be an interesting time - especially in PvP. And sometimes I think, it should be ok to have hunters move for crappy auto shots and low damage shots, but really, you should have to take aim and draw your bow longer if you want a big damage shot! And you have pet damage too and that doesn't require any movement. I think you guys are lucky - for now.<br /><br />Trackball! You are hardcore Elf :DNavimiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08504557372435466448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-51462039004006302572014-09-18T19:53:16.240-04:002014-09-18T19:53:16.240-04:00LOL, a trackball. I know what a trackball is. Pro...LOL, a trackball. I know what a trackball is. Probably haven't used one in 15 years though... :D<br /><br />With less buttons in WoD, I'll be changing up my keybinds a bit anyway. May try moving my interrupt and traps from my mouse and try using those for movement. Questing is a good time to practice those kinds of things.Jaegernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-89665953448584817172014-09-18T08:43:54.284-04:002014-09-18T08:43:54.284-04:00I am the same way, even if I can move I usually fi...I am the same way, even if I can move I usually find a nice place I am comfortable in and tend to stay there. I might bounce a little but that is only because I can. ;P<br /><br />Melee have some major advantages. Such as they need to move less so they can concentrate more on their rotation. They can also interrupt off the global cooldown and usually have more raid utility than a ranged. It equals out in other ways for sure.<br /><br />I use a trackball mouse, makes moving a lot easier. Sure I occasionally still need to hit keys for certain things, but not much. Most people do not use, or never have even tried, a trackball, so it would be hard to explain how it works to someone that never used one, if that makes sense.<br /><br />To put it this way, if I use a normal mouse, I can not play. lol I am horrible with it. And god forbid I try to fly, I am all over the place like a drunk driver. No thanks. Trackball movement is so smooth, so direct, so easy for me.<br /><br />About the one less finger, it would just take practice hitting multiple keys. Sometimes I have played one handed and move with my keyboard and did my rotation and barely missed a step. It can be done, just takes practice, like anything else in life. I just like the mouse because I like being able to turn faster and I have gotten so used to it.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-2556675357204562672014-09-18T08:37:03.727-04:002014-09-18T08:37:03.727-04:00We do, technically, but basically we do not. Reme...We do, technically, but basically we do not. Remember when they removed valley they said it was because it felt too much like a magical effect and they did not want hunters to feel like casters. It was part of the reason we lost mana too.<br /><br />But I agree, we basically are still casters even if we are not.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-51375153863680871602014-09-17T18:21:33.584-04:002014-09-17T18:21:33.584-04:00Movement is basically why I don't play my mage...Movement is basically why I don't play my mage very much. I instinctively always try to move out of the fire and always interrupt my casting...<br /><br />I remember having to stand still as a hunter and most of the time I still do. I find my spot in the raid encounter where I don't have to move much. Out in the world or doing PvP though, movement is much more important than it is in raiding (except for those boss encounters that require constant movement).<br /><br />The melee vs ranged argument is really the only thing to consider when it comes to movement. There needs to be a reason to bring melee... and ranged can't have a big advantage in PvP either.<br /><br />On a side note, I need to try using my mouse for movement. I use it for turning, but I still run/strafe with my keyboard. My dps is hurt a little during movement by that since I have one less finger to hit my keybinds. I can use the run by clicking both mouse buttons, but I rarely do that. I'm usually strafing (A,D) or moving backwards slightly (S); Shift-S is my disengage keybind :D<br /><br />Grumpy, do you strafe with your mouse? If so, how do you have it setup?Jaegernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-32994194092529876612014-09-17T16:17:27.537-04:002014-09-17T16:17:27.537-04:00we aren't?!? Why do we still have spells? :Pwe aren't?!? Why do we still have spells? :P-abhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14899567485973250660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-6195772423058061952014-09-17T15:36:35.600-04:002014-09-17T15:36:35.600-04:00Now that is a statement I can agree with but the f...Now that is a statement I can agree with but the fights are balanced around that fact. Melee need to move much less often. Most ground effects and things that force movement happen to ranged, not melee. Most bosses do not move too often. Most adds are the job of ranged, not melee. There is a balance there. But I do agree. I would rather have a full raid of ranged than even a half raid of melee any day.<br /><br />With all that said, it does not change the fact I stated. Moving is just more fun and more challenging. So it is a more compelling game play. My opinion of course. Some people would not agree movement adds anything to the game.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-56795639099149517762014-09-17T15:13:04.954-04:002014-09-17T15:13:04.954-04:00There's little enough reason to bring melee to...There's little enough reason to bring melee to a fight now, let alone if all ranged dps could dps on the move full time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-30553617322873215882014-09-17T12:53:50.967-04:002014-09-17T12:53:50.967-04:00I doubt it. Hunters have always had more mobility...I doubt it. Hunters have always had more mobility than all the other ranged classes. I don't think they want to change that.<br /><br />They did make a change to marksmans mastery that requires them to stand still for the most part to take advantage of it and I can maybe see them adding more to that spec in terms of standing still, but they will not go the full land locked way of the casters. After all, hunters are not casters. They are ranged melee and as such should be able to do everything while moving.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-15139975224020655302014-09-17T12:35:43.616-04:002014-09-17T12:35:43.616-04:00This is true. Hunters have always had a fair amou...This is true. Hunters have always had a fair amount of movement compared to other casters. Even back in the day when they could not move or auto shot while casting there were plenty of instants, mana permitting, that they could use. <br /><br />There are two styles of game play. As you say, tactical, and as I say active. I would prefer the skill of movement over the skill of hitting 4 or 3 while standing still any day. But that is just my opinion. I like actively playing so much more.<br /><br />In the end I would say the skill level for doing everything right while moving is massively higher than doing everything right while standing still. This is partly why I like it. The reward for doing everything right while moving well is more apparently than the reward for doing everything right while standing still.<br /><br />This makes me the exact opposite of you. If they ever took away the hunter movement I have become spoiled with I would quit or switch mains to a tank. I do not like standing still. It is boring game play in my opinion.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-67500131893625094052014-09-17T11:58:25.828-04:002014-09-17T11:58:25.828-04:00Hunters could always do more than casters while mo...Hunters could always do more than casters while moving. It was their niche. <br />But I love Blizzard going back to forcing casters to stand still if they want to deal serious damage. It makes the game as a whole more tactical and less fast. Something I like am lot. <br /><br />I never liked warriors getting 3 or more skills to close the distance and casters getting 3 or more building distance. Everything instant - of course. It is an arms race that hurts the game overall. <br /><br />However, I do expect them to not keep it, just like no flying. They are going to return cater to the forums again, and I will once again quit :/Nilshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06468755466492675831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-4046608671954672232014-09-17T09:48:12.136-04:002014-09-17T09:48:12.136-04:00if casters are getting land locked, then you can b...if casters are getting land locked, then you can bet, unfortunately, hunters will be next. <br /><br />I do stand still, but I do jump out the way of puddles and such. :) <br /><br />Thanks for the heads up. I won't make my one and only locky 1 lvl 90, but I will ook at her tonight and probable in all likely hood deleted her. <br /><br />I wonder if warriors and rogues will be be feeling any blizzard love?<br /><br />-roo <i>"time to clock in for that 4 letter word that is not spoken too loud - w o r k"</i>-abhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14899567485973250660noreply@blogger.com