tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post6409894169904433237..comments2024-03-27T07:57:48.010-04:00Comments on The Grumpy Elf: Public Penalties Would WorkTheGrumpyElfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-50740654992349056152013-07-24T15:31:34.409-04:002013-07-24T15:31:34.409-04:00PvP anon does have a good point. If they can take...PvP anon does have a good point. If they can take the time to see that all the reports of the bot where filed from the same guild they could take the time to see if the bot being reported is indeed a bot.<br /><br />The system does not work and can not work as it is. They need to actually do something for it to work. If they are not sending me a warning "for over using the report function for no reason" and they are not taking action on the reported ones, it is not working. Either way. Action me or action the person I reported. Do not just sweep it under the rug. It is not working.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-78552562558570315712013-07-24T10:00:30.818-04:002013-07-24T10:00:30.818-04:00And this:
"Anyway. Number of different peopl...And this:<br /><br />"Anyway. Number of different people matters. Realm matters. Guild matters. If it's the same guild reporting one guy then, again, it can be one guild who decided to report someone they don't like."<br /><br />If this is really the case, then apparently Blizzard have time to look into the realms / guilds / what not of those who are reporting something, and do various cross-checks to determine similarities there -- yet they DON'T have time to check the actual offense.<br /><br />I don't know if this is the case, like you suggest, but if it is, that would easily qualify for BROKEN as well, no?PVP anonhttp://nowhere.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-42672980184205171042013-07-24T09:55:22.013-04:002013-07-24T09:55:22.013-04:00"System, as it is, works, just not like you w..."System, as it is, works, just not like you want it to work."<br /><br />Sorry, I refuse to characterize the way it functions as "works".<br /><br />Sure, with every reporting system there's a potential for abuse. If the means to protect from that abuse are so rough that they are shutting the system down in the case I explained (which is what you are suggesting), this is a very serious flaw.<br /><br />To see how serious, ask yourself the following simple questions:<br /><br />Was there a bot? Yes.<br /><br />Was the bot easy to detect for Blizzard? Yes. (Same hours, same dumb software.)<br /><br />Was the bot there for a prolonged time period? Yes. (More than a month.)<br /><br />Was the bot reported? Yes.<br /><br />Was the bot banned? No.<br /><br />You are suggesting that the bot was NOT banned because it has NOT been reported enough in a proper way, fine, but honestly I am not sure how much more proper this can get. The bot was being reported by several people every day for many days. In addition to that it was perhaps being reported at least several times by some other people who noticed it. If that's still not enough to make Blizzard look ONCE into what's going on (the bot logs showed NO incoming chat from GMs, but several incoming chat from other players), I don't know what to say.<br /><br />---<br />Seriously, if this experiment is still not enough to show that the system is broken, then I can't see what kind of experiment could possibly convince you in that.PVP anonhttp://nowhere.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-80217918089211939542013-07-24T07:39:32.721-04:002013-07-24T07:39:32.721-04:00I've seen their penalty volcano. It is just a...I've seen their penalty volcano. It is just a theory, they do not follow it in any way shape or form.<br /><br />There was a post on MMO-C when the annual pass was added where one guy was trying to get banned so it would effectively void his contract. He committed 100s of offenses from small (curing in randoms) to large (buyign gold and admitting it) and they never banned him. It took well over 100 "warnings" before he ever received a 3 hour ban.<br /><br />The penalty volcano only works if they use it. They do not. It was written and released to appease people into thinking they actually do something when they in fact don't.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-58980082460420849332013-07-24T07:36:21.607-04:002013-07-24T07:36:21.607-04:00I understand what you are getting at. Like if I w...I understand what you are getting at. Like if I wanted to I could have people in my guild all report someone that I do not like and suddenly that person has 30 or 40 reports on them.<br /><br />But they should look into it and instead of telling us "we can not give out information" or not even say anything about it, tell us, stop filing reports for no reason. Or, we found reason and have taken action.<br /><br />Letting people know what you are doing would work. Even if you are letting them know you are putting a note on their account for filing a false report.<br /><br />A little transparency goes a long way into making the system better. Keeping everything hush hush is a bad way to do things.<br /><br />The only time I have ever seen swift action taken was when someone was threatening to find and rape a female friend of mine. She put them on ignore and reported them. They responded with the "we can not give any information" crap out instead of, you know, actually doing their job. <br /><br />When the person made a new character and started to whisper her again how he was going to rape her. She ignored and reported, and he made another and another and another, this went on through about 6 characters over a half hour. Then suddenly, all his accounts listed on her black list disappeared. Yeap, he was banned. <br /><br />I think the only reason it was handled quickly was because it was a real life threat and the guy kept making new characters.<br /><br />The sad part is, the original character that threatened her never even got a suspension. Not even a one day one. He was always there in trade trolling.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-39073335380948402832013-07-24T07:18:03.019-04:002013-07-24T07:18:03.019-04:00Yes, the system is there, Blizz calls is Penalty V...Yes, the system is there, Blizz calls is Penalty Volcano, if you google it you can see the pyramid.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18173436197557929355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-5945146831825985972013-07-24T07:13:04.867-04:002013-07-24T07:13:04.867-04:00Two people reporting the same person every day is ...Two people reporting the same person every day is worth exactly two reports. You're persistent, sure, but it's one person reporting the same person for the same offense.<br /><br />System, as it is, works, just not like you want it to work. It's meant to also prevent abuse from some, say, two people who don't like a third (same realm and maybe even say guild) and keep reporting him every day (maybe even when not in the same bg as him) in hopes the count will eventually get them.<br /><br />Anyway. Number of different people matters. Realm matters. Guild matters. If it's the same guild reporting one guy then, again, it can be one guild who decided to report someone they don't like.<br /><br />I've been subject of harassment. I know it works. I also know how long it took and how many reports and what eventually got Blizz to ban the two guys. Yes, ban, not suspend.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18173436197557929355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-38545044083400667872013-07-23T15:26:33.272-04:002013-07-23T15:26:33.272-04:00And that is exactly why I think sharing the inform...And that is exactly why I think sharing the information with the masses (and actually enforcing bans) would help the game. Everyone has lost faith with them doing anything and even if they do something we do not see it so we stop reporting.<br /><br />I too have seen an actual ban take place. It was back when the LFD was first added to the game someone was rally being a jerk hard core and I reported them. They got banned for it, so I am guessing that they had a long history of doing it. Funny part is he made a character on my realm to curse me out for getting him banned with turned his short ban into a lifetime one when he did it multiple times. But after reporting many bot, many people doing worse things than that guy, and many other thing, I have never seen any actions taken, ever.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-37601902563926604202013-07-23T15:12:08.920-04:002013-07-23T15:12:08.920-04:00The only time I ever found a player actual banned ...The only time I ever found a player actual banned for a report I made was when some were exploiting terrain bugs in battlegrounds. Even that wasn't banned consistently. Language and offensive behavior was never punished to my knowledge. Bots were allowed to roam free and destroy certain markets on the AH unchecked.<br /><br />After awhile I stopped filling out the reports. It was a huge waste of time that Blizzard never used to make the game better. I don't think I've opened the report feature since BC.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08527861642043001372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-79551222128565972252013-07-23T14:12:56.481-04:002013-07-23T14:12:56.481-04:00I agree. They do not need to be super harsh, they...I agree. They do not need to be super harsh, they could even allow for multiple offenses. A few 1 day bans a few 3 day bans, things like that. And actually follow through.<br /><br />Blizzard has this habit of completely ignoring their own terms of service. They let people get away with anything really because that monthly fee is worth more to them then taking the chance of losing a paying customer.<br /><br />@Roo<br /><br />There is a player on my realm, has been since wrath, called niggerslayer. He has been reported multiple times and he still held on to that name until recently. Even at that, I am not sure if he quit or switched servers, but I have not seen him in a few months. But to go from wrath to mists with that name and never having a name change forced on them shows blizzard does not give a crap.<br /><br />Yet a friend of mine decided to take a name, not sure what it was now, that was not offensive in any way, and they were flagged for a name change nearly instantly. I wonder why.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-52760992605588859152013-07-23T12:59:33.655-04:002013-07-23T12:59:33.655-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.-abhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14899567485973250660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-7033453733787475682013-07-23T11:52:38.691-04:002013-07-23T11:52:38.691-04:00Public ban announcements are an option. However, ...Public ban announcements are an option. However, I think the real problem is that they just don't ever ban anyone. If they implemented that feature, the list would probably be empty most of the time.<br /><br />I think they need to hand out more bans. They need to explain what the ban is for. The ban duration can be short at first (3hrs maybe) but escalate quickly with each repeat offense. Your ban history would be cleared after a period of time: maybe 3 months or something.<br /><br />They probably have a system like this in place, but there's no point to the system if they never ban anyone.<br /><br />The only times I've ever heard of people getting banned were for cheating during raid progression (abusing bugs in Blizzard's poorly tested code) or giving away large amounts of gold and triggering the gold seller checks. I don't care about gold selling and it's Blizzard's fault that the world first raiders are beta testing the raiding encounters on Live... Blizz needs to fix that crap before it even goes to PTR...<br /><br />I never hear about bots or toxic players getting banned. You just keep seeing them repeat their behavior over and over.Jaegernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-1259498328866730242013-07-23T10:45:32.294-04:002013-07-23T10:45:32.294-04:00Nothing really, but not when you are supposed to b...Nothing really, but not when you are supposed to be working. ;)TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-44862353920346176962013-07-23T10:44:14.454-04:002013-07-23T10:44:14.454-04:00See, that is exactly why we NEED to see that it is...See, that is exactly why we NEED to see that it is working (when it does) so people know that action will be taken. Otherwise all we have are situations like yours, where we lose faith in the system and just stop reporting because it does nothing.<br /><br />If they want people to use the report system they need to do two things. One, actually do something about the reports, and two, let us know what is being done so we see it is worth us reporting.<br /><br />As it stands now most people do not waste their time reporting because they believe, just like you, that it does not work.<br /><br />I saw a mining bot and asked everyone in my guild to come report it. We all did, over 25-30 reports every single day for over a week and we just stopped reporting. The bot still kept going, our reports where ignored, blizzard does not care.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-79812766949679886702013-07-23T10:40:09.071-04:002013-07-23T10:40:09.071-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.-abhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14899567485973250660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-24176529910045152592013-07-23T10:18:45.744-04:002013-07-23T10:18:45.744-04:00It's a tough topic. I am not sure if making ba...It's a tough topic. I am not sure if making bans public would make things better.<br /><br />But I can state this: the report system is not adequate and has never been adequate.<br /><br />Example (I may have posted this story earlier, sorry if this is the case):<br /><br />The start of Cata has immediately broken a lot of BG bots. This happens with all major patches. OK, after about a month, bots started reappearing. Then their numbers increased to whatever it was before Cata, and then surpassed that.<br /><br />Me and my team have been reporting bots left and right. It's not fun being on the same BG with bots, whether or not they are on your side or on the enemy side, so we were busily reporting. Every day, tens of reports.<br /><br />We didn't see any reaction to our reports so we decided to set up an experiment. One of the guys agreed to take it for the team, installed a bot and subjected himself to launching the bot every night. Same characters, same playing hours, every day without exceptions, etc. And all of us kept reporting that bot, filing at least a report a day.<br /><br />End result? The bot was up and running for more than a month, and didn't get a ban, despite being reported several times every single day.<br /><br />So, no, the current system doesn't work. I don't care why, quite frankly, it just doesn't.PVP anonhttp://nowhere.comnoreply@blogger.com