tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post4363176587385818626..comments2024-03-29T05:19:30.673-04:00Comments on The Grumpy Elf: What if There Were no Such Thing as Soulbound?TheGrumpyElfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-25510759049186078322013-03-27T14:22:21.456-04:002013-03-27T14:22:21.456-04:00@ Roo
I liked Torchlight quite a bit, it fit my n...@ Roo<br /><br />I liked Torchlight quite a bit, it fit my need for a relatively mindless dungeon crawler button masher. Had a really awkward difficulty curve, though, it was quite manageable until I hit a wall relatively late in the game and I just put it down at that point. Still, got a lot of hours out of it for a $20 game (now a lot less, I expect).<br /><br />I bought TL2 but haven't had a chance to play it yet, wee bit too many things to do in MoP still. I've heard it's a more enjoyable game than D3 but of course, opinions can vary a lot with that type of thing. Still, for the price, I'm sure it'll be more than worthwhile without most of the baggage that D3 came with (AH, RMAH, online requirement (?), etc).<br /><br />Amalar... might just want to skip that one unless it's in a discount bin somewhere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-30767956104171669132013-03-26T17:00:17.923-04:002013-03-26T17:00:17.923-04:00@ GE - It takes me just about 2 hours to run 6 too...@ GE - It takes me just about 2 hours to run 6 toons thru the daily fishing and cooking in SW then it is oft to bed at 8:30pm. How do I have time to do all the dailies in Mists!?! <br /><br />With me little friend in me head, I need at least 9 hours of sleep, if not 10. :( <br /><br />See and you worry about LFR, LOL.<br /><br />-roo<br /><br /><i>A Night Elf decided to commit suicide by hanging himself from a tree in the park. A few days later, a Dwarf walkes by, spotted the Night Elf hanging from the tree. He asks the Night Elf what he is doing and the Night Elf replies, "I'm hanging myself." <br /><br />"You're supposed to put the noose around your neck, not your waist," said the Dwarf. <br /><br />"I tried that," replied the Night Elf, "but I couldn't breathe.</i>-abhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14899567485973250660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-44785824783432157322013-03-26T16:50:49.417-04:002013-03-26T16:50:49.417-04:00@ anamoose - I dont know your name, but I hope it&...@ anamoose - I dont know your name, but I hope it's the right anamoose - How do you like torchlight? I see there is a torchlight 2 out. That and Kingdoms of Hmalar (I think I have that spelled right - can't read my friend's writing very good) have been recomended to me. Thanks in advance.-abhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14899567485973250660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-5223676591733491832013-03-25T15:35:57.702-04:002013-03-25T15:35:57.702-04:00Hopefully you meant 10K, not 10000K... I'm sti...Hopefully you meant 10K, not 10000K... I'm still slowly working my way up to 10000K, wouldn't even be able to afford one extra page at that price. :)<br /><br />My main beef with the D3 comparisons is that it's a completely different type of game (or should be viewed that way). When I played D3 I played it as a single-player game to be beaten and put aside... I wasn't expecting end-game activities, it isn't an MMO. I played it the exact same way I play Torchlight, or Mass Effect, or any number of single-player games that have an ending. To me, D3 never had the kind of end-game potential that, for instance, Starcraft had/has... the competitive gaming head-to-head aspect. It was a fun diversion for 20-30 hours, then I moved on. I'm surprised so many people had different expectations.<br /><br />That's the last direction that Blizz would want WoW to go in... a subscription-based game needs to keep you engaged on a daily (or at least regular) basis. It may FAIL, but that's the goal. The rarity of gear you want is one of the knobs that they can tune in that regard. I love that they're implementing some bonus token "magic" to increase your win odds every time you lose that'll reset once you win. I love mechanics like that - I wish when I'm trying to get the last tick of a green profession item that there was something similar.<br /><br />(fun aside - I once burned through something like 170 lobsters at huge expense trying to get one last point of cooking skill to get up to the next recipe... actually put in a ticket, thinking that, who knows, maybe the profession tick system is broken... GM politely responded back that it was working as intended)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-7391924461947968502013-03-25T15:16:25.223-04:002013-03-25T15:16:25.223-04:00"I don't want to run LFR to cap. I don..."I don't want to run LFR to cap. I don't want to run 5 mans to cap. I do them because I have to and not because I want to and I would welcome not having to run them. But I do see your point how this could really hurt a multi player game."<br /><br />There are probably a lot of quality raiders out there who agree with you on that, too. Problem is, if the quality folks no longer run the random group content, that leaves us with a 30K dpsers in charge... and seriously, nobody deserves that, even the 30K dpsers.<br /><br />At this point, the game is tuned for a mix of skill levels... remove the top layer and current groups would get smoked even more than is happening right now. They could certainly tune things down but I don't think Blizz wants LFR to be as easy as playing an interactive movie... they want it to feel like a win when a boss dies.<br /><br />As a bit of a thought experiment, if they removed all rewards from the game entirely, whether gear, cosmetic, gold, etc... and had the content stand on its own as "movie alternative" entertainment... would you still be playing the game?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-78724445661740800402013-03-22T10:25:25.262-04:002013-03-22T10:25:25.262-04:00Just throwing a gold sink sort of number out there...Just throwing a gold sink sort of number out there.<br /><br />You can make money easy this expansion. Just doing your daily junk you can get a grand a day. At least it seems I do.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-63897886710351050972013-03-22T09:50:34.123-04:002013-03-22T09:50:34.123-04:00you might have 10,000K to spare, but I don't. ...you might have 10,000K to spare, but I don't. Don't give them any ideas on cost factor. :Þ<br /><br />-roo <i>"aye and you know how the great chasm got there? A dwarf dropped a copper down a gopher hole!"</i>-abhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14899567485973250660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-66154214746288779692013-03-22T07:13:16.008-04:002013-03-22T07:13:16.008-04:00I have not played D3 since it has entered the heav...I have not played D3 since it has entered the heavy farmed and everything is on sale phase you mention it is in now but I can see it and understand where you are coming from.<br /><br />It still gives people a choice. Someone that is new and does not have gold will still have to grind to make gold or get gear.<br /><br />The fact that so many would actually go and buy the things to turn them into superpowered super heroes shows that is what they want. Just because you have the gold does not mean you have to spend it gearing up your character. People do it because they want to.<br /><br />I do agree however that in a single player game like that, losing all that time playing could be a bad thing for design. But as you mentioned, wow really is a different story.<br /><br />You are very right. There could be factors that none of us mentioned here that come into play. And that is what I pose these what if posts about. To talk about... what if.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-86566013258563185622013-03-22T02:43:05.858-04:002013-03-22T02:43:05.858-04:00The problem with D3 taking 30 hours instead of 100...The problem with D3 taking 30 hours instead of 1000+ hours to complete is that this is the whole game. You just walk in and go kill everything all the way to the last boss, making occasional stops at the auction, without being challenged, ever, and then you stop playing. And I am not exaggerating about not being challenged, ever - I think I only died *once* and that was just something random, not the result of difficulty.<br /><br />I agree that WoW is different from D3 in that WoW constantly adds new raid tiers, so perhaps it won't suffer from the "I did everything there is to do, multiple times, no reason to play anymore" quite as much, but I am not convinced the world would be too rosy either. The lesson that D3 taught just seems too strong to me (no difficulty *whatsoever* all the way through the game). At the very least, all raid tiers before the last one won't matter one bit. It can be argued that they don't matter much now either, but there is still a difference between "level to 90, spend two weeks doing heroics and then easy raids, done, you are prepared for the last tier" and "level to 90, spend 10 minutes and 500 gold on the AH, done, you are prepared".<br /><br />All in all, maybe infinitely tradeable gear will kind-of work for WoW, with some caveats, but I'd advise extreme caution as the effects can be really extreme. I wouldn't be surprised at some bizarre factor which we don't discuss here completely ruining the game in ways we don't currently imagine. Noone thought that gear would trivialize D3 to the extent it did. The argument was "but people trade items already in D2, things seem fine". That didn't go as expected.PVP anonhttp://nowhere.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-81241966808865907182013-03-21T23:09:15.423-04:002013-03-21T23:09:15.423-04:00And make void storage much bigger. Like let us ad...And make void storage much bigger. Like let us add more pages to it, 10,000K per page even, so we can keep adding more to it.<br /><br />Sort of like the shared loot box in diablo 3. There we go with that game again. ;)TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-31026921537206657942013-03-21T23:07:48.650-04:002013-03-21T23:07:48.650-04:00It would still take my guild months because we do ...It would still take my guild months because we do not raid often. And if we do not extend lockouts how deep do you think we would get in one two hour lock out? <br /><br />With all the trash and most fights now taking stupidly long even when you do them well we can get down 4 or maybe 5 a night at most and then start at the beginning the next week.<br /><br />When it comes to coordination only, as you mentioned, I usually say it takes us one week to learn a fight. So 2 hours. When we are progressing it usually takes us one night to beat a new boss the first time we see it, so 2 hours is a fair assessment.<br /><br />So even if we extended, a 12 boss raid, one new boss each week, is three months of raiding. If we over geared it, even with extending every week, it would still take at least, 2 months, because we would still need to learn the fight even if we over gear it. <br /><br />That is all also assuming we had all purchased all that gear to be over gearing it ASAP and not need gear which also means needing to restart it.<br /><br />And my guild is nearly dead middle of the pack, which means we are the average guild. So can I see it still taking 3-4 months, absolutely. If people do not go out and buy all their gear, which most won't because they can not afford it and do not buy gold.<br /><br />I do not see a guild like mine having all 10 members spending massive amounts of cash to buy gear to power through it. That is not what we do, we raid to have fun and downing one new boss a week is just fine for us, the average guild.<br /><br />The 30 to 1000 hour example is a bad one for both of us. I might want to do 1000 hours, you might want to do 1000 hours, but the majority of players want their stuff ASAP and would prefer 30 hours. <br /><br />Just because I would not mind grinding my butt off doesn't mean everyone does. Just take a peek at the forums. People want to hit 90 and have full epics waiting for them in the mailbox. That is the majority of the player base. We, are the exception, not the rule.<br /><br />You idea for account bound on everything, with the change to looting so you could not take it from someone that actually needed it that I mentioned, would be perfect and would basically do everything I mentioned, with the exception of being a gold maker for some.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-16191985382355359602013-03-21T22:37:56.540-04:002013-03-21T22:37:56.540-04:00Converting BoP to BoA would extend the alts are a ...Converting BoP to BoA would extend the alts are a good thing that Blizz says they're striving for.<br /><br />Then all they'd need to do is make void storage into a Battle Pets type all toons/all factions/all servers box and I'd die a happy man.EchoNotEchohttp://www.parallelguild.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-30105675549269723372013-03-21T22:16:52.800-04:002013-03-21T22:16:52.800-04:00That would be pretty sweet.That would be pretty sweet.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-3964394852053962032013-03-21T22:15:32.171-04:002013-03-21T22:15:32.171-04:00Oops... just realized Azurial said the same thing....Oops... just realized Azurial said the same thing. :)Jaegernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-50624148705923170602013-03-21T22:14:05.554-04:002013-03-21T22:14:05.554-04:00How about everything that is soulbound being BoA i...How about everything that is soulbound being BoA instead and most gear starting off as BoE? If you "need" something, it's Account bound just like it's soulbound now.<br /><br />It'd be a less extreme change and would address some of the gear trading/hand-me-down issues.Jaegernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-27393887960648473152013-03-21T20:47:29.046-04:002013-03-21T20:47:29.046-04:00Why would it still take you 3-4 months to complete...Why would it still take you 3-4 months to complete a raid? If gear was irrelevant, as it inevitably would with unbound gear, raiding simply comes down to coordination. Coordination that assumes a <i>lesser</i> gear level (else it would be undefeatable by anyone but pro players). It shouldn't take more than a month, tops - especially given there would be no reason to let the raid reset. Just imagine your group in full 535s running Normal Throne of Thunder. Still 3-4 months, really?<br /><br />The greatest argument against unbound gear is exactly Diablo 3. Quest rewards were meaningless. Crafting was meaningless. 100% of all item drops were meaningless beyond their function as being sold for gold. Whatever challenge the actual content provided was meaningless, as you could simply equip uber-gear that was being sold for vendor+1g due to there being no item decay. Supply of uber-gear always increases.<br /><br />I was stuck with everyone else in Act 2 Inferno because it required crazy amounts of +resist gear to survive further. Up to that point, the game was terribly boring, with zero challenge. At that bleeding edge, it was next to impossible. A few months after things were nerfed, I came back, geared up with less than 100k gold and breezed through Acts 3 & 4 Inferno. Then I uninstalled. Why would I continue playing again? Killing mobs all day for a 0.0001% drop that was already on the AH for $20? To do what? The game was defeated on the highest possible difficulty setting (at the time). <br /><br /><i>What is wrong with it taking you 30 hours instead of 1000.</i><br /><br />You losing 970 hours of gameplay that, presumably, were fun. At least, fun enough to engage you for that amount of time. It's the difference between completing all new content in a week and a half vs 12 months (at 20 hours/week).<br /><br />A much better, much simpler change would be to make all gear BoA. That solves all of your dilemmas, including the "didn't earn it!" ones, without destroying the incentives to progress in a gear-focused game. BoEs could still exist in the system; just change "Soulbound" to "Account-bound".Azurielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16581263347888757710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-36131744775610706582013-03-21T19:48:11.727-04:002013-03-21T19:48:11.727-04:00So that might actually make people raid more and b...So that might actually make people raid more and be more community oriented. I think that would be a good thing, even if I am the anti-social type that hates pugs. lolTheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-20382248498890024062013-03-21T19:45:37.400-04:002013-03-21T19:45:37.400-04:00If you can afford it, be it 60K gold or 2500 valor...If you can afford it, be it 60K gold or 2500 valor, you earned it by making that 60K gold or 2500 valor. I have never been one of the school that getting lucky to have a boss drop your loot is earning it. That is being lucky. But that is another story all together.<br /><br />The world first guilds would probably "hire" people to farm drops for them and even if they did get a few, what would they finish faster? A day or two?<br /><br />Second level hard cores, the ones that do it in a month or two might get it done 2 weeks sooner.<br /><br />Third tier hard cores, as in the rest of the people that heroic clears really really matter might be where people start to benefit from it big time.<br /><br />After that, from the casual/hardcore down to the casual or social or baddie, if you will excuse the word, it would make things better for.<br /><br />It would get the majority of the raiders playing more because they feel they can progress more. The hard cores might even play more because instead of downing things in record time then taking a break until next release they would keep running to sell the stuff they get, but those, that super super tiny percentage of players, are the only ones that would leave sooner. And what? By 2 days or 2 weeks, that doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things, in my opinion at least.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-24164280266923597382013-03-21T19:39:10.901-04:002013-03-21T19:39:10.901-04:00Possession is nine tenths of the law they say. Bu...Possession is nine tenths of the law they say. But that is where the problem might come in.<br /><br />"He gave it to me, I am not giving it back."TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-13812666755185283072013-03-21T18:52:29.681-04:002013-03-21T18:52:29.681-04:00The big issue is deservedness. WoW has for years ...The big issue is deservedness. WoW has for years separated players into classes based on gear, and this would totally overturn that. <br /><br />The economy issue isn't really one, because WoW already has a throttle on new gear entering the system, the weekly lockouts on raids. <br /><br />The other issue is progression. Gear is the current progression system, you have to play to get gear via raiding or valor points or pvp, but if you could buy it that would be bypassed. Blizzard would have to figure out another progression system to keep people playing. I don't even mean this in a cynical way, like "Blizzard wants us all on a treadmill so we'll keep playing and paying", you do need something to play for.Mattnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-41207183635295078162013-03-21T18:43:21.989-04:002013-03-21T18:43:21.989-04:00One difference in WoW though is that raid tiers do...One difference in WoW though is that raid tiers don't last that long. At best, you're talking 6 months or so, which is 24 weeks worth of gear drops. After that there's a new tier and everyone starts chasing it and no one cares about the previous one anymore. <br /><br />The other difference is that farming in D3 can be done solo, but you need to pull 9 other people in to farm a raid. Some guilds might do it just to make some money, but the supply of non current-tier gear would probably dry up fairly quickly once a new patch was released, leaving only people selling old pieces they didn't need anymore<br /><br />Mattnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-11014472517131174932013-03-21T18:39:19.764-04:002013-03-21T18:39:19.764-04:00I do understand sitting on gear used on one's ...I do understand sitting on gear used on one's mains, I used to do that often too because having to search and be late was worse than having under-equipped alts; I understand the gear you bought with your own money is yours to sell when and to whom you wish to, but I do not think merely being in your bank or on your characters makes the gear yours.Imakulatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18327043103775428011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-49726670670993696742013-03-21T17:28:06.354-04:002013-03-21T17:28:06.354-04:00plus how would get that funky foot stink out of yo...plus how would get that funky foot stink out of your favorite boots! Yeah, lending armour, even digital bit armour, wouldn't be too appealing. -abhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14899567485973250660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-92011286867656774192013-03-21T17:15:18.274-04:002013-03-21T17:15:18.274-04:00You are right. While the core has never had any i...You are right. While the core has never had any issues like that we have had a few over the years that acted like that.<br /><br />A holy paladin back in firelands cried like a baby over gear, and was shown the door shortly after and a rogue back in ICC made such a big stink he went to the forums to plead his case that we screwed him, but we kicked him from the raid and guild the second he started his crap. BTW, the people on the forums all backed us up with saying, you lost the roll stop crying, you will get it next week, which is what we tried to tell him.<br /><br />So no guild is immune to it.<br /><br />Even a guild like our could accidentally come about things like that. Some hunter asks me to borrow my bow for a pug he is doing, I lend it to him, the next day his account expires and I need it for the raid but he will not have money until the weekend. Good intentions from good people turns bad. So I see what you mean, it could still lead to problems.<br /><br />I would have a no lending rule in the guild however. Your gear is your gear.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-49970910300825901002013-03-21T17:07:44.469-04:002013-03-21T17:07:44.469-04:00I'm with you on the economy thing. Those 440 ...I'm with you on the economy thing. Those 440 leg have been less than the cost of a crystal for as long as I can remember. Except the hunter ones, those still sell nicely.<br /><br />As for the content thing perhaps I am just looking at it from my own perspective only. I don't want to run LFR to cap. I don't want to run 5 mans to cap. I do them because I have to and not because I want to and I would welcome not having to run them. But I do see your point how this could really hurt a multi player game.<br /><br />Skill will come either way to a person that applies themselves. I can't say I agree with that as an issue as I agreed with you on the first two. I could have a 460 item level or a 535 item level and it would not change me any way what so ever. I would still try to do the best that gear is capable of giving me. Good players will be good players, even if they buy their gear.<br /><br />Time could be a double edged sword. People need to be grinding the content to get the things to sell. So for every person that is out there that just logs in to raid or buy any gear they need, there would be someone out there doing raids on 11 characters on the server and grinding mobs day and night to get drops to sell. As a matter of fact I know of three people alone that I am friends with that would play more if there were random raid level items that could drop anywhere in the game. So win some and lose some here I think.<br /><br />But, as you mentioned, there are ways this could be made to work. If they did it.<br /><br />Aside from your suggestions, and I love the enchanter one (as a matter f fact when I won that shield I asked an enchanter if they could disenchant it for me so it would not be soulbound because that is what I thought disenchant meant) there are a few I could propose to make something like this work.<br /><br />- Don't make all gear free to trade, but do make some gear, for every slot for every spec and class in the game, but at extremely low drop rates. Some people would farm mobs for days on end trying to get them, adds to their time factor you mentioned. Also, it would be an added incentive to running old content more often. If HoF had a small chance to drop something like a 496 unbound piece once every 10 or so runs, people would run it even if most would not bother already.<br /><br />- Make unbound gear so it can not be enchanted and can not be reforged and has no gem slots. So buying a 535 piece might give you a leg up, but the one with 2 gem slots and the ability to reforge it and enchant it would be leaps and bounds better.<br /><br />Actually I like that one suggestion. I really do, and I will leave it at that for now. Unbound gear should not have gem slots and not be capable of being enchanted or gemmed.<br /><br />That, added the the enchanter idea you mentioned, could make many of the issues you just mentioned a lot less.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.com