tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post3709211168803447443..comments2024-03-27T07:57:48.010-04:00Comments on The Grumpy Elf: Adding to the 10 vs 25 DebateTheGrumpyElfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-23731001172361458922012-10-17T13:36:33.243-04:002012-10-17T13:36:33.243-04:0025 normals are a joke compared to 10 normals. Alw...25 normals are a joke compared to 10 normals. Always have been. Even when 25s gave better gear than 10s in wrath. You could have a 10 man group in 10 man gear from ICC go into 25 man and destroy it but a 25 team in 25 gear, which was much better, couldn't get past 6 or 7/12 in 10 man. History has proved 10s where harder then. Now might be different however.<br /><br />The only true difficulty of 25 mans are getting 25 players together and assigning them spots when you need to spread out for some mechanics. Managing the number of people is the huge difficulty of 25s. <br /><br />You said it well with the 1/10th vs 1/25th. In 10s you can feel your individual impact a lot more. But the type of people that are going for world first, I doubt they can even carry one person doing subpar in 25s, so for that case I think it is less of a factor really.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-46012644882505428452012-10-17T12:52:20.571-04:002012-10-17T12:52:20.571-04:00I agree completely. First is first and if 10's...I agree completely. First is first and if 10's were easier then those top guilds would break down into teams of 10.<br /><br />Now this is coming from a 10 man raider who's only done a couple of 25s. We decided to see what it would be like so two guilds got together and between them we managed to field 25 people. I firmly believe that I could have afked the whole raid and no-one would have noticed. I didn't really feel like I made an impact at all, and I was healing and topping the meter. It was like a juggernaut, just rolling along and crushing everything. No finesse, no effort just steamrolled. It was so much easier than 10 man in terms of the actual raid. We had it on farm on 10 man but that 25 run made farm look like progression difficulty.<br /><br />What was difficult about it was managing all those people. The holy paladin from the other guild didn't like that I was doing more than 3x their heals on Ultraxion (this was back when I was a healer) so they made sure to grab both crystal buffs so I wouldn't have one. We wiped on that boss first time though I'm not quite sure how. The personal responsibility was zero. Quite a few people died from not pressing the button both times, tunnel visioning I suppose, and we killed him anyway. If more than a couple of people died on 10 man, farm or not, it was a wipe.<br /><br />In my view 25s are hard because you have to recruit 25 people and have them get along, you have to get them to show up for raids, you have to make sure they are all raid ready, you have to provide everything that 25 people need (believe me it's hard enough getting feasts/flasks for 10) and you have to get them to stop talking all over each other on vent. Communication is much harder with more people. However, mechanically? In terms of personal impact on the raid? Much less. People can die and you'll still eke out the kill. That's why I think world first guilds are 25 man as they don't have issues with rosters, they are going to have dedicated disciplined people. They avoid all the pitfalls of 25 man raiding but get the benefits.<br /><br />Now I'm not saying 25s are much easier than 10s because that's not true. I do think that purely due to percentages that personal responsibility is less. If 1 person dies in 25 man it's not a big deal, 1/25, but 1 death in 10 man is 1/10 which is a much bigger piece of the pie. 10s are easier to run, organise and maintain though.<br /><br />Swings and roundabouts. Pick your poison. Nice article :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17771213542953346538noreply@blogger.com