tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post2720678205283156515..comments2024-03-27T07:57:48.010-04:00Comments on The Grumpy Elf: Dev Watercooler - The Great Item Squish - My ViewTheGrumpyElfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-1491621346367462422011-11-11T15:31:30.580-05:002011-11-11T15:31:30.580-05:00I think the "do nothing" option is bette...I think the "do nothing" option is better then the squish option or the mega option.<br /><br />Squish just seems like they would create unnecessary work for themselves when that time fixing things every expansion could be better spent developing new content instead of fixing something they should have not created knowing it needed to be fixed.<br /><br />Mega seems, silly, and while I do love the silly things in the game, I don't think we need to give damage silly names. M for million would be just fine.<br /><br />I do completely stand by what I said, GC's comments come off as if he does not even play the game. True or not, does not make a difference.<br /><br />If I said no one would ever raid if the gear they get from it only increases their stats by one I would be called an idiot because I know and you know that thousands, perhaps even hundreds of thousands would still raid even if there was no gear at all, just for game play sake or achievement sake.<br /><br />If I can be called an idiot for making a comment like that and it is not my job to "know better" then he can be called an idiot for it when it is his job to "know better".<br /><br />What's good for the goose, you know.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-4663295774334211302011-11-10T20:23:41.903-05:002011-11-10T20:23:41.903-05:00Same "anon" as in previous comment:
I t...Same "anon" as in previous comment:<br /><br />I totally understand your opinion. <br /><br />But being a bit between the chairs (I work in the online game business, though not as a designer), I always feel irked when people act as if designers - and here specifically the ones responsible for the most successful subscription-based mmo (in many aspects - player numbers and profits directly, but both also speak to that they do something right that pretty much everyone else does wrong) in the western hemisphere were morons who "don't play their game" or such. Hyperbole--, basically.<br /><br />I actually do share some of your opinions for my personal preferences, but the key point is that if Blizzard doesn't design for that, that doesn't mean they're idiots.<br /><br />Specifically, for the issue I personally would prefer the "don't change anything" option. Not because I fear change, but because I don't see the issue. Numbers get big - so what? The numbers are just that, numbers. Why is it bad if they get big? Certainly, if you reach the point where they're not expressible in reasonable ways (including using K or M abbreviations), I can see the issue, but there's no way wow will reach that point in its lifetime.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-2621862249911004352011-11-10T18:19:52.016-05:002011-11-10T18:19:52.016-05:00@Raffles
Never saw that one, it was funny.
@Ano...@Raffles <br /><br />Never saw that one, it was funny.<br /><br />@Anon<br /><br />Don't get me wrong. I do understand what blizzard is aiming for and I do understand their reasoning but that does not change the fact I do not agree with it sometimes.<br /><br />I agree we can not let everything fall on to skill only. If less then 1% of the player base sees content then I assure you that the subscriber base would drop 10 fold what it has been each quarter now and soon the game would be left with under 100,000 players.<br /><br />If anything, they need to make the game easier for the masses. As much as raiders like to say raiding is just for the raiders that is not true. People do not buy games to not beat them. They buy games to beat them. If the average player can not beat the game then there is no reason for them to buy it at all. That is the number one reason for subscriber losses this expansion. It is not easy enough for the average player.<br /><br />As for the noticeable difference in gear again I do agree. It is a lot easier to be excited over a 100 stat gain then it is about a 1 stat gain but people will still take a upgrade in any form it comes in.<br /><br />I know I have went after things that where +10 upgrades even with todays huge numbers. An upgrade is and upgrade is an upgrade. There is no arguing that no matter which side you stand on.<br /><br />The biggest problem is they poisoned people. They gave people big and now they want even bigger. They let it get out of control so they have two options here. Let it continue or fix it.<br /><br />I choose to fix it, but I do admit freely that I am probably in the minority here. The majority wants to keep seeing bigger and bigger numbers.<br /><br />So yes, even if it appeared I did not understand what they were aiming for I do. I just do not agree with it. I do not agree with putting in a temporary fix at the beginning of each patch and I do not agree with giving funky names to damage.<br /><br />Leave things as is, and call it million damage not mega damage or do a complete reset and do not let things get out of hand so quickly again.<br /><br />I've played games that did the complete reset and it hurt the games really badly at first but they recovered to be better. I doubt they would be willing to risk that after losing so many subscribers already, so you do not need to worry about that ever happening.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-66004483531895264222011-11-10T16:18:02.423-05:002011-11-10T16:18:02.423-05:00While I certainly don't agree with many of Bli...While I certainly don't agree with many of Blizzard's design decisions, your comments really only show that you lack understanding of what their design needs to achieve, as opposed to "hahapwning" Ghostcrawler which you apparently think you did.<br /><br />For instance, the comment on skipping over content is not just refering to "getting to endgame". It refers to the entire concept of slowly building up IN endgame as well. The only deciding factor on beating bosses would then be skill, not "gearing up" at all - because skill makes a much much bigger difference on performance than the 15 stat points (over all slots) that you could gear up before hitting the final boss on heroic of the current raid tear from before starting the raid. So: Good (and that's not restricted to the crazy absolute top raids) players would just walk through content without any restriction - and nobody else would ever beat even the first boss, because if content was tuned to be sensitive to a 1% change in e.g. dps output or tank health, only a tiny fragment - I'd wager <1% and even far less, but that's speculation - of players would be able to beat that content.<br /><br />Tons of players farm(ed) the heck out of heroics in order to get their valor gear. Nobody would do that in your scenario - why grind when you it doesn't make a noticable (and that's the key aspect) difference? You could argue that's awesome, but then you don't understand that having something that makes a difference to one's goals to achieve in the game is crucial to keeping them playing, which fairly obviously is a major goal in game design.<br /><br />And you also obviously don't understand that - given any feedback Blizzard cites, and based on my personal experience as well - people do not get excited about upgrades if they don't make a noticable difference. To stick with your 50->51 example, on a single gear slot, adding in base, that's going to make a difference of 0.1% - generously estimated. You'd need to play (perfectly - obviously, if you make a mistake on one out of a thousand attacks, you already lost any visible gain) versus a dummy for a very very long time - hours, possibly days - to be able to statistically verify that increase given how much random noise there is in the numbers. <br /><br />Given that, your statement that you get excited about that might certainly be valid, but the expectation that other players would is really so off that one is tempted to throw your "you make it too easy" back at you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-34037089267672305022011-11-10T13:49:28.391-05:002011-11-10T13:49:28.391-05:00@Anon2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0la5DBtOVNI...@Anon2<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0la5DBtOVNIRafflesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-64388945495184435412011-11-10T07:56:42.185-05:002011-11-10T07:56:42.185-05:00@Anon 1
What you seem to have a problem with ther...@Anon 1<br /><br />What you seem to have a problem with there, previous stuff being better, I love. I think gear should be what is best for you, not what has the highest item level.<br /><br />I agree that some items will end up being way to good and last way to many tiers but I do not see that as a bad thing.<br /><br />We are all going to use what is best in slot anyway so who we farm it from doesn't matter, as long as we get it.<br /><br />@ Anon 2<br /><br />Ghostcrawler? Is that you again? Sorry for picking on you, but you deserve it.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-65342754221738650102011-11-09T20:06:04.910-05:002011-11-09T20:06:04.910-05:00How old are you? Between calling things "reta...How old are you? Between calling things "retarded" and going off on tangents about whether or not Ghostcrawler plays the game, this whole piece comes off to me as something written by an upset child.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-84705313409482854362011-11-09T19:47:56.634-05:002011-11-09T19:47:56.634-05:00I can see a big risk with smaller stat increases. ...I can see a big risk with smaller stat increases. Even though 51 is still better than 50, the fact is that older bosses will still generally be easier. They were tuned for when you had 50 - if you now have 52 or 53, it is nonetheless more helpful, even if you need 23 or 24 people to do it.<br /><br />But that's not the risk. The risk is that all items are not created equal. If your tier 12 trinket is less than optimal (such as, say, Crit for a healer), but a tier 8 trinket is better (like a raw Intellect boost), might you not keep that trinket... FOREVER? Best-in-spec is no longer going to be changed by item level. The only thing that will compete with it is something exactly the same (but newer.)<br /><br />And really, if it ever came to a choice between farming Heroic Nefarian or 10-man Patchwerk...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-26753452620389551182011-11-08T10:10:34.585-05:002011-11-08T10:10:34.585-05:00I agree :)
Also, referring to your last post, or ...I agree :)<br /><br />Also, referring to your last post, or the one before, I think this method will be in good interests - http://greedygoblin.blogspot.com/2011/11/you-wont-feel-nerfed-you-will-be.html<br /><br />(Referring to gaps in gear levels and skill etc)<br /><br />- JaminJaminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01933819665446187419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-16322337545201166812011-11-08T06:46:39.928-05:002011-11-08T06:46:39.928-05:00@Paul
The point I was getting at and Shintar noti...@Paul<br /><br />The point I was getting at and Shintar noticed as well, is that each expansion we would need to squish again.<br /><br />So why create a problem that needs to be fixed every single expansion. Just fix it so there is not a problem that needs to be fixed.<br /><br />Squishing just means every expansion we will start out doing 3K and end up doing 30K. They would then need to not only squish gear but mobs, quests, quest rewards, vendors, rep rewards, raids, dungeons, etc for all the people that are now leveling through there for the first time.<br /><br />Seems like they are just making work for themselves each expansion.<br /><br />Personally, I would rather them use the time to develop more game play then using the time to balance everything being squished each expansion.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-62913307914683826692011-11-07T23:02:14.921-05:002011-11-07T23:02:14.921-05:00The crazy level jumps afterwards will be smoothed ...The crazy level jumps afterwards will be smoothed out in the next squish, Shintar, at the expansion after MoP.Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-60748154348559189572011-11-07T19:50:27.369-05:002011-11-07T19:50:27.369-05:00I think the item squish sounds like a decent idea ...I think the item squish sounds like a decent idea to deal with the existing problem, but like you I think that just going back to crazy ilevel jumps right afterwards is not going to help in the long run. I, too, found the argument that players supposedly don't care about small numbers ridiculous. This is the same WoW with its EJ culture where people risk getting crap from others if they put one talent point into a sub-optimal place or use orange instead of red gems! But when it comes to stats on gear, they supposedly don't care about the small differences? Yeah right. :PShintarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16758343475446510635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-58771077497834072522011-11-07T16:28:46.016-05:002011-11-07T16:28:46.016-05:00Monty Haul...the death knell of many a campaign in...Monty Haul...the death knell of many a campaign in Dungeons & Dragons. I have been concerned about this tendency in World of Warcraft since vanilla WoW. <br /><br />A good description of what a Monty Haul campaign is like is given on this site:<br /><br />http://www.frontiernet.net/~jamesstarlight/CampaignTypes.html<br /><br />Now Blizzard has established Grey, White, Green, Blue, Purple and Orange gear levels, from worst to best in quality and effect. In vanilla WoW, the Green and Blue were the common level of gear for most players, and in truth provided a very good level of itemization for competitive play. <br /><br />PvP gear did not originally exist, and therefore did not provide an easier source of Purple items until well into the initial release patches. Purple gear came mostly from 40 man raiding and more rarely from world drops. <br /><br />In The Burning Crusade, the gear upgrade was significant and immediate, with Greens replacing Purples fairly rapidly, and restarting the drive for Blues, which with the release of Kara as an active 10 man raid fell in value as many more folks (myself included) gained access to Purples. It was fun, but even then I thought the system was long term unsustainable. <br /><br />The pattern was repeated in Wrath of the Lich King. Again it worked and again, I enjoyed it greatly but I also had private reservations about the gear stat inflation that was occurring. Ever higher numbers sucked in the player base, like a whirlpool pulling down a swimmer. As Grumpy has noted time and again though, skill could compensate for lesser gear to a large extent as the numbers were still not that hugely different. <br /><br />Cataclysm changed that and changed it very early on. Epic level gear obtained at level 80 very seldom could match gear obtainable from the AH at level 78 or 79. By level 81, it was the rare piece of gear from any previous expansion that could hold a gear slot on any character class. Only the unluckiest skinflint "won't spend money at all" types had gear left over from Wrath by level 82. <br /><br />Well it was a smaller level jump so that probably was as it should be, based on previous expansions. What was disconcerting however was the vast jump in the numbers. As the item levels continued the ever upward spiral, the range of differences between both the color level gear and then more specifically the Purple gear in particular became ever more pronounced. <br /><br />To my mind, the fear of WoW becoming a Monty Haul campaign has occurred in the Cataclysm expansion. As rewards get more ridiculously out of balance from previous rewards, the effect of gear over skill has become ever more pronounced. I feel that many players who have become accustomed to the vastly larger numbers of Cata won't react well at all to an item squish.<br /><br />Yet to save WoW, I do feel that an item squish is the only path to follow. It will have to be a total level 1 to 90 item system overhaul. Anything else and the game remains disjointed and especially in the Cata regions will be unplayable. Hopefully the loss of player subscriptions won't be to great over such a reset, and in all honesty, in the long run, I think it would make the game much more playable. <br /><br /><br />Anon, Grumpy's GLAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com