tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post1654625419424344325..comments2024-03-29T05:19:30.673-04:00Comments on The Grumpy Elf: What WoD Needs: Intelligent Zone DesignTheGrumpyElfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-42074590839906773032014-01-16T15:19:25.231-05:002014-01-16T15:19:25.231-05:00The game always had areas with mixed mobs. At lea...The game always had areas with mixed mobs. At least until cataclysm came and totally dismantled the leveling experience and turned it to crap.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-3638923220667742422014-01-16T12:44:50.442-05:002014-01-16T12:44:50.442-05:00Well, working from your cloud serpent example, I w...Well, working from your cloud serpent example, I would have much preferred that those be L85 dailies, not L90 dailies, or at least L90 tuned quests that you can do at L85 if you want. The island used for some of the dailies consisted of L90 mobs, though, so isn't that pretty much what you're suggesting? It's just a safer version. Having a mix of L85 and L90 quest mobs in the same general area seems odd to me and I probably wouldn't be a fan.Rnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-35793217518635257742014-01-16T12:15:04.151-05:002014-01-16T12:15:04.151-05:00I feel your pain when remembering those old school...I feel your pain when remembering those old school wow when you would get a quest that effectively had you going all over the world, on foot or flight point, back and forth. Or even better, trying to find yourself into an area you had never been to before. Maybe running through some areas you had no business being in to get there.<br /><br />It was fun and exciting and I loved the travel and exploration. But only the first time through it. Once I knew where everything was it no longer had the great sense of exploration, just the great sense of wasting my time.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-82591753905833492272014-01-16T12:11:15.378-05:002014-01-16T12:11:15.378-05:00The level restrictions to quests do hinder the peo...The level restrictions to quests do hinder the people that want more of a challenge. I would not mind going directly to where the shado-pan quests begin in the summit at 85 and just going from there on. I could easily handle it, at least on a character I am good at, so why not let me do it.<br /><br />I can understand some quest restrictions such as quest lines where you need to do one to open the other but for those side quests and mini hubs they should not be there. I think they just use the quest progression model for everything. <br /><br />So you did not like those old school areas where you accidentally walked into it and got your butt whooped? I thought those were great.<br /><br />I am more so talking about areas like the could serpent area that is a 90 questing area for dailies, it should have had level appropriate mobs. That way it fits for the quests that it offers and it gives a sense of danger to the area when passing through.<br /><br />Like I said, I do think the gradual difficulty increase does work better for a patch island like timeless island. I really love how that worked and was designed and I hope they keep up with that sort of patch content where the further in you go the harder it gets. Outstanding design.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-27302048732846393042014-01-16T12:01:34.696-05:002014-01-16T12:01:34.696-05:00That sounds like it would be interesting. Port in...That sounds like it would be interesting. Port instantly to any flight path. I would not be against them adding that to the game as a guild perk even if it had like a 2 hour cooldown it would be awesome.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-80543677979962438662014-01-15T19:06:27.932-05:002014-01-15T19:06:27.932-05:00No the main problem was that it was tedius not har...No the main problem was that it was tedius not hard each pacjk had 4 or 5 guys and they were so bunched together you couldn’t skip one. And no I couldn’t hearth back the guy turn in wasn’t at a hub that had a flight point the nearest one was half a map away. Tigginoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-50453707614536857642014-01-15T15:57:43.648-05:002014-01-15T15:57:43.648-05:00I agree with your TI comments, I like that design ...I agree with your TI comments, I like that design for somewhat self-contained patch content. I don't think I'd want that design in questing zones, though, I like that there's generally a difficulty progression from zone to zone.<br /><br />What I would go along with is removing all level restrictions from quests. I'd like to be able to pick my own danger level. I'd like to be able to do L87 quests (and get L87-equivalent gear) on a fresh 85 toon. To some degree I do that already... first thing I do on a fresh 85 is to run to the Vale city and set my hearth there, which requires running past or through or fighting some higher-level mobs. My tank pet toons at that point have gone immediately out to Dread Wastes to hunt for the i450 BoA weapon spawns... at L85 those things give a nice chunk of XP. I stopped doing this once I had a couple of each of them but it was fun when I was doing it, fighting multiple L90 mobs at L85, even with a tank pet, is challenging... I died quite a bit. Still did it, though, the rewards were worth it. I'd like to see Blizzard allow that kind of gameplay, with appropriate cautions so players know that it isn't intended for their current level.<br /><br />I do like the idea of events. From the first day of MoP I noticed and appreciated that Blizzard included some rare non-hostile mobs out in the world you'd run into occasionally when running around (and in most cases would kick your ass). Events would be another step in that direction, content that's still in the spirit of what you're doing but enhances it, yet is purely optional.Rnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-53626967737537117782014-01-15T15:13:35.988-05:002014-01-15T15:13:35.988-05:00@Tiggi
Yeah they do send you back and forth somet...@Tiggi<br /><br />Yeah they do send you back and forth sometimes. Though with the Quick Travel option it's not that painful. The cd on it I suppose might preclude it's use everytime it would be useful, more so for free players than preferred/subbed but it is there.<br /><br />For Grumpy's/non swtor players benefit. Quick Travel is like a hearthstone only better. In all major sort of quest hubs, if there's a flightpath, there's a quick travel point. The quick travel works like a hearthstone but it'll take you to any discovered quick travel point that you choose. It's a quick way back to the quest turn in. Yes you do have to fight your way back in again somewhere, but you don't necessarily have to fight your way out. You can do and it's all xp.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17771213542953346538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-7850173679326097412014-01-15T14:07:20.831-05:002014-01-15T14:07:20.831-05:00Seems like the normal quests were a little too muc...Seems like the normal quests were a little too much for you. A normal quest should not be like that. Perhaps a "red" quest would be like that for the people that choose to do such a huge challenge.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-54640366344186200522014-01-15T14:04:14.161-05:002014-01-15T14:04:14.161-05:00The zone design in SWTOR is why I actually quit. I...The zone design in SWTOR is why I actually quit. I remember it very vividly I was questing and they sent me to this guy who was a million miles away surrounded by groups of really tough packs took forever to get to him he sent me to another awful place a long ways away with even more packs to talk to another guy I got to that guy he told me to go back to the last guy. I turned around all the packs had respawned I said “LOL nope” logged out and that’s where my guy sits to this day. This was just a normal quest. Tigginoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-57945813016027623952014-01-15T12:18:27.361-05:002014-01-15T12:18:27.361-05:00They need to escape building for "the race&qu...They need to escape building for "the race" and build for the masses instead. They don't seem to understand that even if they build for the masses the race will still be there. Do not build specifically for the race.<br /><br />There were things like that, dangerous max level mobs, all the way up to <br /><br />I have leveled and am still leveling characters so I know what you mean. My newest hunter ran into a war scout while in the summit and I kept trying to kill him but he kept resetting on me. I gave up but I spent a good hour on him playing around trying to keep him from resetting. It was great fun.<br /><br />Not sure if you ever read a post I made a long time ago about my horde hunter and when I ran into that rare in the dread wastes with all the adds that runs around and fighting him at level in low gear and how exciting it was. It had to be one of the greatest feelings I've had this expansion. I really love tackling the rares while leveling.<br /><br />Glad you liked it, thanks.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-61083922038408578502014-01-15T12:12:22.939-05:002014-01-15T12:12:22.939-05:00I've never played SW:ToR but I hear a lot abou...I've never played SW:ToR but I hear a lot about it. Not sure I will ever give it a try however. I tend to stay away from free to play games because I have a bad habit of spending a lot of money on them as funny as it sounds. lol<br /><br />In the beta the sha used to move around the zone on his own turning all mobs he passed into elites. On a slow day (which was rare on beta) the entire zone could be filled with elite mobs only almost. It was freaking scary. I understand why they changed it but that was kind of cool.<br /><br />I too miss the sense of danger as I have oft times said here. It has a place in the game and it is avoidable from the people that do not want the challenge. Not sure why they refuse to add it back.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-72233893797002339892014-01-15T11:28:09.906-05:002014-01-15T11:28:09.906-05:00One of the underlying problems with WoW, which I ...One of the underlying problems with WoW, which I think Blizzard is well aware of, is the difference between designing good content, and designing content for "the race". By the race I mean all the various server firsts. Where as originally it was accepted that you would spend tons of time levelling, now it seems to be the case that you haven't started until you're at max level. Why would you take your time exploring while levelling, when you could get to max level... etc.. Which I think is why timeless isle's design is great for patches, but would be hard to implement for levelling zones. (i just read the other comments on here, and definitely agree that it would be better if the levelling zones were though of as story telling zones, and not just something to get you through to end-game). <br /><br />I personally would love having max level elites in my levelling zones. Because I play a hunter primarily, along with a blood DK and a Rogue. And I wouldn't mind avoiding those areas while levelling on my restokin, who's quite adept at prowling away like a little Nelf. I wonder, however, how the rest of the support classes would feel about that? <br /><br />I was quite late in levelling my DK, maybe you were done levelling all of your alts by this point, but I loved running into Zandalari Warscouts while levelling him. They were such an interesting challenge (at 85-87). I remember seeing one in the jade forest and battling with him for hours, each time I'd eventually take him too far away (trying to avoid the avenging spirits) and he'd reset, or just the fight would go on too long and he'd reset, but I could not kill one. At this point I already knew where all of them roamed, and what all of their abilities were from doing them on my hunter, but I imagine I would have died pretty quick had I just randomly attacked one when I was 85/86. And runnning into them occasionally in the different zones was even more exciting, because new zone generally meant I was a level higher, and could try again. <br /><br />Anyhow, I'm just babbling. Good post, good ideas. <br /><br />~DeliriumAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-59302905821853166562014-01-15T11:19:41.737-05:002014-01-15T11:19:41.737-05:00As I was reading this I had the same thoughts that...As I was reading this I had the same thoughts that Taitrina mentions. I've been dabbling with SWToR as well and it reminds me of pre-Cata WoW in the sense that "there is danger Will Robinson" around the corner.<br /><br />I have not come across one zone where you only fight one mob at a time (they are usually in packs of 3-4). If you do find one wandering alone it is always an elite of sorts that can tear you a new one if you are not prepared.<br /><br />There are 1 to 2 World Bosses on every planet that require a full raid group at level...or a smaller raid group with a few max levels toons in it. These World Bosses are no push over at max level either. I was in a raid for one (a level 18 World Boss) where the max level (level 55) tank was one shot. Mind you, after the tank died he said in chat that he had forgotten about that boss' such & such ability...but still...a level 18 WB one shot a max level character that was well geared?? That's some serious business!<br /><br />To boot, as a questing/leveling toon on that planet one of your quests takes you right by that WB. If you aren't paying attention and run up the ramp towards it, following your quest, you are in for a rude awakening.<br /><br />I miss that sense of danger that WoW used to have. I would love to see some of that come back in WoD. Give us back some challenge to the leveling game please. Keep us involved and on our toes while questing instead of more of the mind numbing feature it has become. We get enough grinding when we reach max level as it is. Take that grind away from the leveling experience and give us back adventure and challenge.Jstmelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14423675330687776883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-40641958076231390042014-01-15T10:01:48.340-05:002014-01-15T10:01:48.340-05:00"I accidentally summoned one once. There was ..."I accidentally summoned one once. There was a glowing item, so I clicked on it thinking it was a lore object and this level 50 boss spawned and overkilled my curious levelling character."<br /><br />OMG I laughed so hard, that is awesome. I can just picture it in my head. Oh look, sometimes sparkling, let me go get it. Oh crap, I am so dead.<br /><br />I've seen lots of people do that on the island of thunder with the summon things. I think that it why they changed it to have a longer cast time, so people would notice it.<br /><br />It is true they reused a lot for scenarios and I hope they keep doing that. In a way it means they can make more of them as the art is already there.<br /><br />There is a lot they can do to the leveling zones, they just need to stop thinking of them as leveling zones and think of them as story telling zones. That might be the first step. So they can build them up over time instead of saying, but this is just for level 85.TheGrumpyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621615711198405365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9015737272343810105.post-8568041182721119372014-01-15T09:25:59.324-05:002014-01-15T09:25:59.324-05:00Swtor does this. I know I wind up mentioning that ...Swtor does this. I know I wind up mentioning that game a lot but I only really play it, Warcraft and Marvel Heroes.<br /><br />In Swtor there are planets. Take Nar Shadaa for example, both factions level 21-24 there. However, there is a bonus series for the republic at least which becomes available at level 31 and has level 32/33 areas. I haven't done a lot of free exploring in swtor as you are moved very seamlessly around so I don't know with 100% certainty whether you can stumble into the wrong area. Some planets like Taris are level 16-19 for republic and 32-36 for the empire.<br /><br />However, there are also heroic areas. These are where you do heroic quests. Sometimes they are instanced but quite often they are just open in the world. You get a message pop up in the center of your screen in purple saying "Heroic area: name of area" and so I promptly backtrack and go elsewhere. Heroic quests sometimes are for 2+ people, 3+ or 4+ so some of them require more than others. These are designed to be done at level by a group, rather than somewhere that higher levels are sent solo. So I guess it's like old group quests.<br /><br />There are also quests which are within the different planets. Like the Bounty Hunter event which happens every month. There's the standard quests which scale to your level. Whichever planet you go to you'll fight mobs the same level as you. Then there's the elite quest which spawns a max level boss, again no matter the level of the planet.<br /><br />Class quests also have the same. Sometimes you get sent back to a low level planet. Often this will be in an instanced area but sometimes there's no green instance wall to run through, and it does just seem like it's in the world. The mobs are the level of the class quest so if you go for that quest too early then you can easily die to it if you are under level.<br /><br />There's world bosses which require a max level raid group on low level planets. I accidentally summoned one once. There was a glowing item, so I clicked on it thinking it was a lore object and this level 50 boss spawned and overkilled my curious levelling character.<br /><br />I get what you are saying as I agree with you. I run through all the zones for loremaster on my main and then never go back. The zones are built for levelling and that's it which is IMO such a waste of resources. They did re-use a lot of art assets from levelling zones for scenarios which is something. If they want us to be in the world then they need to give us a reason to be there and making zones relevant across all level brackets, or at least again at max level as well as levelling, seems like a really good start. I don't just mean in a daily quest hub way either, but in the difficulty/level of the surrounding mobs too.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17771213542953346538noreply@blogger.com